Why Do You People like this Game?

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

I won't quote that czar but, damn. you have said it all in a nutshell and have been the first one to give me some really strong reasons on why the games may appeal to some more than others. quick point of rebuttal is that I don't generally "test" the games or put players in obvious onorthodox positions. however when playing live and watching the players all have this generic sort of general playstyle, I thought i'd test it for authenticity. but you said it best when you said "Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will more more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individual they are.." and for me this is why I primarily play 2k. But thanks, I really appreciate the perspective.

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

What do you want me to say man? Do you want to know why I like it more? The answer is I really don't know, I just do. Its more fun to me than 2k. Sorry if that bothers you.

man, I don't care what you have to say honestly. But if youre gonna give a viewpoint in a discussion, it would be nice if you actually had something to contribute.

[Da_Czar]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

I won't quote that czar but, damn. you have said it all in a nutshell and have been the first one to give me some really strong reasons on why the games may appeal to some more than others. quick point of rebuttal is that I don't generally "test" the games or put players in obvious onorthodox positions. however when playing live and watching the players all have this generic sort of general playstyle, I thought i'd test it for authenticity. but you said it best when you said "Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will more more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individual they are.." and for me this is why I primarily play 2k. But thanks, I really appreciate the perspective.

No problem JT. Thanks for not taking that the wrong way man. I know you know the game of hoops so I meant no disrespect with that... And your right in live everyone can do everything.

[stizz]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

I won't quote that czar but, damn. you have said it all in a nutshell and have been the first one to give me some really strong reasons on why the games may appeal to some more than others. quick point of rebuttal is that I don't generally "test" the games or put players in obvious onorthodox positions. however when playing live and watching the players all have this generic sort of general playstyle, I thought i'd test it for authenticity. but you said it best when you said "Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will more more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individual they are.." and for me this is why I primarily play 2k. But thanks, I really appreciate the perspective.

You could say the same about 2k, where if you put any player at the PG you could get this amount of points or this amount of assists. I found out that basketball games are only as realistic, if you play realistically. Both games IMO are cheesfests, but have pros and cons like what da Czar said.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

In reality its all about what is important to us as individual games AND how we each as individuals play the game, AND how we each translate in our own minds our vision of the NBA experience into what we see from each game.

For every thing you mentioned someone may be able to point out just as big a list with 2k. The only thing is it probably would be different things that are important to us that 2k may not do as well.

Every single one of us makes allowances for the game we prefer to play. That is just how it is. We will consciously not put the engine in situations it does not handle well.

Some people are into testing a game engine far more than playing it. Like for instance jtdribbles my man is thorough. Some of the things he tries like putting rad at point I personally would not because that doesn't represent real basketball to me. But its a way for him to see if the subtle differences that represent basketball to him are fixed in this engine.

So he is going to see something I won't becasue I am not testing the engine I am playing the game.

I said this a few years ago that if we were able to see extended video on how each of us plays the game and then see their complaints we would be like OKAY I see why you think ....this or that.

The one truth is that live is not as deep as 2k9 there is no debating this and some people equate gameplay or sim with a complete experience. No one here can debate that but these games are on different levels.

2k is a sliding mess and even if you LOVE the game you can't deny that. So you make an allowance and everything that sits on top of that fact is effected but you are able to say okay I will sacrifice that for all the things I like.

So a game like live with no sliding may not move as smoothly as 2k but some will overlook some of the smoothness issues to play a game that feels like next gen. So that is where an allowance is made on that side.

I would venture to say that most people who see the genius in live are struck by a deep sense of authenticity in the actual gameplay department. Let me be specific because gameplay can be defined in so many different ways.

Gameplay for me in how live is better and more authentic is this. The players in nba live are in the same positions they are in the real nba becaue live has real team sets. this means that in real life bosh gets the ball a ton at the high post. Whether he is scoring or playing off someone else.

In live he is in that position all the time. and takes shots from there all the time. In fact some of the exact plays they run in real live you can run in live.

Sliders or no sliders 2k can not replicate this because of the generic nature of their playcalling system and playbooks. In fact lives variation systems offers a much more alive cpu in this particular aspect that makes it hard to go back to playing a generic system with generic plays that are not found in most nba playbooks.

I look at it briefly in this manner.

Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will more more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individual they are..

So it depends on what you focus on and how you play as to which game is not only better but more authentic.

So if someone doesn't play online they may not even notice the things that frustrate you to no end. But conversely the things you may not notice in 2k will drive another person absolutely bonkers.

2k is more mature and complete but EA is more accurate due to DNA. So what happens when the accuracy of EA meets the variability of animations and play styles ?

that is what we will all have the option to answer in 2010.

[Court_vision]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

In reality its all about what is important to us as individual gamers AND how we each as individuals play the game, AND how we each translate in our own minds our vision of the NBA experience into what we see from each game.

For every thing you mentioned someone may be able to point out just as big a list with 2k. The only thing is it probably would be different things that are important to us that 2k may not do as well.

Every single one of us makes allowances for the game we prefer to play. That is just how it is. We will consciously not put the engine in situations it does not handle well.

Some people are into testing a game engine far more than playing it. Like for instance jtdribbles my man is thorough. Some of the things he tries like putting rad at point I personally would not because that doesn't represent real basketball to me. But its a way for him to see if the subtle differences that represent basketball to him are fixed in this engine.

So he is going to see something I won't becasue I am not testing the engine I am playing the game.

I said this a few years ago that if we were able to see extended video on how each of us plays the game and then see their complaints we would be like OKAY I see why you think ....this or that.

The one truth is that live is not as deep as 2k9 there is no debating this and some people equate gameplay or sim with a complete experience. No one here can debate that, but these games are on different levels.

2k is a sliding mess and even if you LOVE the game you can't deny that. So you make an allowance and everything that sits on top of that fact is effected but you are able to say okay I will sacrifice that for all the things that I like.

So a game like live with no sliding may not move as smoothly as 2k but some will overlook some of the smoothness issues to play a game that feels like next gen. So that is where an allowance is made on that side.

I would venture to say that most people who see the genius in live are struck by a deep sense of authenticity in the actual gameplay department. Let me be specific because gameplay can be defined in so many different ways.

Gameplay for me in how live is better and more authentic is this. The players in nba live are in the same positions they are in the real nba becaue live has real team sets. this means that in real life bosh gets the ball a ton at the high post. Whether he is scoring or playing off someone else.

In live he is in that position all the time. and takes shots from there all the time. In fact some of the exact plays they run in real live you can run in live.

Sliders or no sliders 2k can not replicate this because of the generic nature of their playcalling system and playbooks. In fact lives variation systems offers a much more alive cpu in this particular aspect that makes it hard to go back to playing a generic system with generic plays that are not found in most nba playbooks.

I look at it briefly in this manner.

Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will act more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individuals they are..

So it depends on what you focus on and how you play as to which game is not only better but more authentic.

So if someone doesn't play online they may not even notice the things that frustrate you to no end. But conversely the things you may not notice in 2k will drive another person absolutely bonkers.

2k is more mature and complete but EA is more accurate due to DNA. So what happens when the accuracy of EA meets the variability of animations and play styles ?

that is what we will all have the option to answer in 2010.

Damm...that's a hell of a good post

[bls]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

No problem JT. Thanks for not taking that the wrong way man. I know you know the game of hoops so I meant no disrespect with that... And your right in live everyone can do everything.

I agree with your other post, you pretty much hit the nail in the coffin with that one. Thread closed really lol.

But I agree and disagree with what you said above. While most can do everything others can do, players still play different from one another to me due to there DNA and I think that is more authentic.

For example, I run with the Pistons. I can tell you this, I haven't been nearly as effective with Iverson as I was with Billups. I actually struggle with Iverson for the most part. With Billups he had his spots on the court where he was more effective, I could post Billups and I also was able to drive with him with good amount of success. I've tried the same play style with Iverson and have been unable to yield the same results I did with Billups, so I've ended up having to change my whole offensive scheme. What I've found out and what has worked for me is getting Iverson on the elbows and around picks for spot up jump shots, using his runner jump shot in the lane, along with moving him over to the 2 spot. While most due have some of the same animations, the stars due have different moves from Manu to Pierce to Chris Paul to Dirk....etc. And I actually like that it's subtle and not overly done because for the most part in regular NBA games you don't see alot of that flash that you see in 2k9. It happens once in awhile but it's not all the time. Take Rondo for instance, you can drive the lane with him in this game and he'll do a couple different lay up animations, but then out of nowhere you'll see an open lane and drive to the basket with him and BAM!!!!! He'll go in for a nice one handed slam!!! Now mind you I might not even see him slam for like another 5 or 6 games. Thats authentic to me, that's fresh. In 2k you'll see alot of craziness all the time but that's just my opinion. You won't see Micheal Finley going in to the basket for a dunk like you will Kobe or Vince. Now don't get me wrong, they could still use more variety in animations and clean them up a bit as well. But I like a simple basic fundamentally sound game of basketball. Ball screens, picks, post play, mid-range jumpers with a bit of fancy mixed in every now and then not all the time.

And let me tell ya, when it comes to the defensive side of the ball, he's been nothing but a liability for me. I mean people have been absolutely killing me with him out there on the court and I didnt have this problem with Billups, he was a better defender for me. I believe this to be a deep game in many ways. If they fix things like the glitch fastbreaks, double teams, and defensive matchups this game will be above and beyond great!!!!

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

You could say the same about 2k, where if you put any player at the PG you could get this amount of points or this amount of assists. I found out that basketball games are only as realistic, if you play realistically. Both games IMO are cheesfests, but have pros and cons like what da Czar said.

somewhat true. the thing I was pointing out is that with live I was doing this with a pf.

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

But I like a simple basic fundamentally sound game of basketball. Ball screens, picks, post play, mid-range jumpers with a bit of fancy mixed in every now and then not all the time.

And this basic fundamentally sound style of game suits the ncaa 09 game much better than it does an nba game that is not based around a primarily team based approach. It is a me first, individualistic league marketed and pushed in such a manner. When I first played live, I said this is going to make for a great ncaa game, in which the more signature based individual player nuances aren't as favored. This point is one of the reasons I've struggled to be immersed in the game.

But hey, this has been a good discussion everyone, very civil and well meaning. props.

[bls]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

And this basic fundamentally sound style of game suits the ncaa 09 game much better than it does an nba game that is not based around a primarily team based approach. It is a me first, individualistic league marketed and pushed in such a manner. When I first played live, I said this is going to make for a great ncaa game, in which the more signature based individual player nuances aren't as favored. This point is one of the reasons I've struggled to be immersed in the game.

But hey, this has been a good discussion everyone, very civil and well meaning. props.

Did you happen to check out that Miami and Suns game last night? That couldn't be far from the truth. Miami played a very fundamentally sound game in which D Wade had 41 but it was all within the essence of the Miami offense. Everybody cant get into it of course but the poster asked why do people like it and this is the reason why.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

I need to just open a document and write what I am about to say and then post it whenever this discussion comes up. I've said it a lot.

It is true, at the core I like the Live Engine better. It's very unpolished, though, but I like that it rewards skill of the player and doesn't 'play itself.'

That's what I hate about 2k now. They have made so many promises to become more sim, but they have not delivered. Like dude said, 2k is on an old engine and all they are doing is adding more animations. 2k isn't really SIM, it's just got really good animations. So as you slide around people, warp through them and get no collision detection and dunk... your LeBron sig dunk animations is so flawless that you almost forget.

All these people who say sim and animation in the same sentence don't make any sense to me. How can 2ks animations make it more sim?

Yes, I do have problems with Live... the stepping out of bounds thing, the whole rebounding issue or the fact that players CAN NOT grab the ball when its on the ground. And one problem I have with every basketball game is that you can walk backwards. Mostly in the NBA players do not walk backwards... and whenever they do in video games the ball gets stuck to their hand. It's very unrealistic.

But if you think about it, Live has much more potential. 2k is really, as dude said, icing the old engine. People say if it's not broke don't fix it... that's true, you know, but after a point you have to develop something more. That's what technology is supposed to do. True development, to me, is something that once it's developed makes you look back and say WOW we were satisfied with THAT? That's what 2k needs to do. The amount of effort they are putting into these new games is laughable.

I'm tired of 2k.

-Smak

[DakkoN]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

That's enough quoting Czar's big post. Good lord. Nobody wants to have to scroll through the same thing 3 times to see responses.

[dat swag]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

Free-throws are too easy.(Pre- and Post-Patch) I mean really EA, did you guys have to make shooting free-throws so much easier?!?!? I swear you are mentally ******** if you don't shoot 100% from the line in every game no matter whose the free-throw shooter. When playing online, there's no reason to intentional foul late in games.

I disagree with most of what you say...I think most people appreciate the realism and fun factor of this game...Its a good effort...But I do agree with you on the FT's...Its turning out to be a game killer...any change that restricts strategy in a game is not a good thing...The FT meter makes FT's pointless and eliminates late game fouls on bad FT shooters.

Oh...I don't agree with the ******** comment either

[bateman11]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

Very well said ILLSmak. It seems that 2ks beautiful animations blind people.

[PVarck31]

Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

man, I don't care what you have to say honestly. But if youre gonna give a viewpoint in a discussion, it would be nice if you actually had something to contribute.

What the hell is your problem man? I can't say I like the game without writing a 12 page thesis on why?

I like the freaking game man, get over it. If you want to know why so bad, and if it bothers you that much then search my previous posts where I have been saying why for 2 months now, and get the hell off my back about it.