Why Do You People like this Game?

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jtdribbles25
    Banned
    • Aug 2003
    • 1415

    #61
    Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

    Originally posted by pjv31
    What the hell is your problem man? I can't say I like the game without writing a 12 page thesis on why?

    I like the freaking game man, get over it. If you want to know why so bad, and if it bothers you that much then search my previous posts where I have been saying why for 2 months now, and get the hell off my back about it.
    dude relax. I asked a question. you answered it without much thought. I responded by saying that you didn't say much or add to the discussion. then you want to say that it's "bothering" me that you like it or whatever. Im not some kid or a fanboy. I had legitimate interest in the opinions of people here. Most everyone has been extremely cordial and helpful.

    I just responded with the truth, in all honestly I don't care what you have to say if you don't want to contribute. I didn't ask you for a thesis, if you didn't want to contribute than cool. you like it and thats all, well that added absolutely nothing to this discussion. It was not a poll. But this is a discussion board, made up of primarily hardcore sports gamers. I can generally count on this board to provide a place of interesting discussion and options with these games.

    Instead of me just not feeling live and shelving it. I've been able to get some viewpoints that I did not necessarily see on my own play through and it's extended the game for me. I still think 2k is better, but live has some advantages that I did not see and this particular discussion has definitely opened me up to them.And for that I've said thank you to the members who contributed. peace homie.

    Comment

    • jfsolo
      Live Action, please?
      • May 2003
      • 12965

      #62
      Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

      Originally posted by Da_Czar
      In reality its all about what is important to us as individual gamers AND how we each as individuals play the game, AND how we each translate in our own minds our vision of the NBA experience into what we see from each game.

      For every thing you mentioned someone may be able to point out just as big a list with 2k. The only thing is it probably would be different things that are important to us that 2k may not do as well.

      Every single one of us makes allowances for the game we prefer to play. That is just how it is. We will consciously not put the engine in situations it does not handle well.

      Some people are into testing a game engine far more than playing it. Like for instance jtdribbles my man is thorough. Some of the things he tries like putting rad at point I personally would not because that doesn't represent real basketball to me. But its a way for him to see if the subtle differences that represent basketball to him are fixed in this engine.

      So he is going to see something I won't becasue I am not testing the engine I am playing the game.

      I said this a few years ago that if we were able to see extended video on how each of us plays the game and then see their complaints we would be like OKAY I see why you think ....this or that.

      The one truth is that live is not as deep as 2k9 there is no debating this and some people equate gameplay or sim with a complete experience. No one here can debate that, but these games are on different levels.

      2k is a sliding mess and even if you LOVE the game you can't deny that. So you make an allowance and everything that sits on top of that fact is effected but you are able to say okay I will sacrifice that for all the things that I like.

      So a game like live with no sliding may not move as smoothly as 2k but some will overlook some of the smoothness issues to play a game that feels like next gen. So that is where an allowance is made on that side.

      I would venture to say that most people who see the genius in live are struck by a deep sense of authenticity in the actual gameplay department. Let me be specific because gameplay can be defined in so many different ways.

      Gameplay for me in how live is better and more authentic is this. The players in nba live are in the same positions they are in the real nba becaue live has real team sets. this means that in real life bosh gets the ball a ton at the high post. Whether he is scoring or playing off someone else.

      In live he is in that position all the time. and takes shots from there all the time. In fact some of the exact plays they run in real live you can run in live.

      Sliders or no sliders 2k can not replicate this because of the generic nature of their playcalling system and playbooks. In fact lives variation systems offers a much more alive cpu in this particular aspect that makes it hard to go back to playing a generic system with generic plays that are not found in most nba playbooks.

      I look at it briefly in this manner.

      Live is more realistic in getting the right players in the right positions to make the right plays. 2k is better once your players get the ball they will act more like you think they should and have a crap load of options once they get it to look like and play the individuals they are..

      So it depends on what you focus on and how you play as to which game is not only better but more authentic.

      So if someone doesn't play online they may not even notice the things that frustrate you to no end. But conversely the things you may not notice in 2k will drive another person absolutely bonkers.

      2k is more mature and complete but EA is more accurate due to DNA. So what happens when the accuracy of EA meets the variability of animations and play styles ?

      that is what we will all have the option to answer in 2010.
      I'm going to quote the whole post, because its a great post. Finally we have a thread that actually discusses what people are thinking and feeling. Instead of either silence or bashing.

      Its seems that many feel that 2K has basically maxed out their current tech, and can only make incremental improvements. You're speculating that EA can and will exponentially improve those areas where they are sorely lacking. That is probably true, but I think it may be premature to write 2K off as being past its prime. The 2010 games will be interesting indeed.

      Edit: Sorry Dakkon for quoting the post, I did it before I read your post, but I still felt like needed to quote it, you can edit it out if you want to.
      Last edited by jfsolo; 11-29-2008, 02:46 PM. Reason: My Bad
      Jordan Mychal Lemos
      @crypticjordan

      Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

      Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

      Comment

      • SageInfinite
        Stop The GOAT Talk
        • Jul 2002
        • 11896

        #63
        Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

        2010 will definitely be interesting for both franchises. Live will be great if they tighten up the gameplay, presentation, and personality(sig stuff). 2k will be great if the add foot planting, authentic plays(along with an easier play calling/running system) and work on court spacing.

        The question is, which franchise has the easier/fastest way to implement the things is lacks? Whichever does will be the better game. I hope both can get it done.

        It may sound bias, but with the community interaction going on here, I have more faith in NBA Live. Which is definitely a shock if anyone knows me around here. Time will tell tho.
        http://twitter.com/sageinfinite

        SageInfinite Bandcamp
        https://sageinfinite.bandcamp.com/album/interminable
        https://soundcloud.com/sageinfinite
        Hidden Language Video Feat. Grandmilly
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5nW4rGTFM

        #makethemaddenforumgreatagain

        Comment

        • NINJAK2
          *S *dd*ct
          • Jan 2003
          • 6185

          #64
          Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

          Originally posted by stizz
          You could say the same about 2k, where if you put any player at the PG you could get this amount of points or this amount of assists. I found out that basketball games are only as realistic, if you play realistically. Both games IMO are cheesfests, but have pros and cons like what da Czar said.
          great post and very accurate imo.

          I just wonder how 2k is going to react to how they have been received here at OS. In one year they have gone from being considered the best NBA game to many old fans claiming they need an entire new engine. I don't think that can happen in a year and if it does it may probably have a whole new slew of problems. That puts them in a tough spot for next year as far as what they should do. I think the implementation of more defensive and in the paint battle animations along with a faster execution of plays would help this game a lot.

          Live has a solid foundation to build on for 2010 and i never would have tought that after 06 and 07. 08 gave me a little sign but it was still way behind 2k8 imo. Live's main problems imo are it's lack of animations and it's cheap cpu defense. I call it cheap because even when you have clearly beaten them they have the ability to some how slide back in front of you and cut off your lane. In the system they created with momentum and footplanting, this cheapens what they have accomplished in order to keep the game competetive imo.

          As far as animations go,they are very important to me as far as the whole sports gaming experience. Seeing people shoot,run, dribble, etc like themselves is pretty cool. If live gets up to speed with that, watch out.
          Last edited by NINJAK2; 11-29-2008, 03:52 PM.
          EA and 2k have the unfortunate task of trying to balance on a tightrope of fun and sim while trying not to fall 10,000 feet to their death. Instead of a safety net waiting down below there will just be angry customers quick to move out of the way and talk of their failure.

          Comment

          • Da_Czar
            NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
            • Jul 2002
            • 5408

            #65
            Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

            Originally posted by SageInfinite

            The question is, which franchise has the easier/fastest way to implement the things is lacks? Whichever does will be the better game. I hope both can get it done.

            It may sound bias, but with the community interaction going on here, I have more faith in NBA Live. Which is definitely a shock if anyone knows me around here. Time will tell tho.

            You said a lot right there Sage. which franchise has the best chance or path of least resistance to address the things it lacks. I will tell you this, in my opinion if they fix the sliding in 2k10 it will make it an entirely new experience and that in itself will more than likely fix 75% of their spacing issue. Other 25% is they need a bigger floor but when 2 steps actually only cover 2 steps worth of distance guys won't recover as quickly and it will open up the game.

            All long time fans know that EA in the past never listened to their fan base. Now they are an integral part of the atmosphere around here and allow themselves to be held responsible to the loudest pickiest stingiest most opinionated group of gamers on the planet. Who also know a HELL of a lot about gaming. (I'm biggin up my OS bretheren right here).

            That will only lead to success for EA and get rid of the old stigma that they just don't care. I'm not handing the title to EA for 2010 they have to earn it. But I am saying for the first time they know where the dam target is and knowing that, I believe they have the ammunution to hit it. We'll see.
            Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

            Comment

            • Bornindamecca
              Books Nelson Simnation
              • Jul 2007
              • 10919

              #66
              Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

              That was a fantastic post by the Czar. Spot on, dude.

              2k has some major problems offline, but online in the OS league...just WOW. Great simulation fun.

              Right now Live's flaws are all deal breakers for me, but I appreciate the improvements and I'm looking forward to next year. I do wish that 2k would patch in better AI across the board though, so we could benefit from some of Live's strengths as well.
              My Art
              My Tweets

              Comment

              • DereckM
                Pro
                • Jan 2004
                • 774

                #67
                Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                I understand that EA is now trying to start listening to the community a bit. But that only makes long time EA fans of the past like myself feel even more jaded. It should not have taken losing sales and quite a few years of people asking them to do what they are trying to do now. For this to happen.

                I for one was so confused with the I dont care about the consumer attitude that it seemed EA has had over the past few years. I hope its like you say Czar about them actually making an effort to give us the great games of the past. By working and using community ideas to make games better.
                Last edited by DereckM; 11-29-2008, 04:24 PM.

                Comment

                • Walker8
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 980

                  #68
                  Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                  I'm standing by my statement that the engine in both EA games this year Live, and NCAA to an even greater extent potentially because of the extra dev time are leaps and bounds ahead of their predecessors in key areas. Including the 2k series. Are they as refined and have as much of a feature set at this point? Probably not. But play these games and tell me the atmosphere in these games isn't mindblowing and that the flow of the game doesn't feel very realistic. I think this stuff is pretty obvious if you play these games to any extent. We are talking abotu Live here but the same goes for NCAA as well.

                  Another thing that has been mentioned before is how these games feel more organic. That has to do with how one on one matchups are done. For example in 2k9, the ai is very scripted and a lot of what occurs in that gaem is a percentage. if you upfake, the cpu will either go for the upfake, strip the ball or not do anything. After a while you notice the pattern and there isn't as much to one on one matchups. you can pretty much blow by guys at will and there isnt a whole lot to it. The same goes for double teams, etc. If you double in 2k the cpu will pass out of the double 100% of the time. In live the AI is much more organic and does things dependant on the situation. The way players interact and bounce off each other and the way the momentum system is done in live as well as the footplanting all adds to this organic feeling. Live is much more advanced. The engine just is and if you have played both games i dont know how you can say otherwise.
                  Last edited by Walker8; 11-29-2008, 05:08 PM.

                  Comment

                  • marc68
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 494

                    #69
                    Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                    My 2 cents to the ORIGINAL POST.

                    Live is more fun to play than 2k9 to me. PERIOD.

                    I play on superstar and YES the game has stupid flaws
                    (free-throws are BEYOND easy)

                    But, and I like this phrase... "I run with", the Pacers....LOL..***n with, thats such a cliche thing to say.
                    I am 5-4 and like THE REAL PACERS I have a hard time closing out teams and most games are tough nail-biters. That is all I ask for in a sports game, the ability to be close to real life.

                    And IMO Live does that better than 2k9.

                    Comment

                    • droopizzle34
                      Pro
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 772

                      #70
                      Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                      people go back and forth all day long about 2K vs. Live, but seriously guys, BE HAPPY WE CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO!!!! That is the best thing.I have both games,and what I don't like about one,the other has.It is great we have a choice of games and don't have to be stuck with one like we are with that "other" game.......This is a good year to be a video basketball game player.

                      both of these games are great games.both have flaws.I can sit here and gripe about this and that,but I am just happy to be able to have more than one game.Competition makes games better,thank goodness we have choice in our NBA games.
                      Ca$hville 4 Life...
                      Go Titans Go!

                      Comment

                      • Walker8
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 980

                        #71
                        Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                        Originally posted by droopizzle34
                        people go back and forth all day long about 2K vs. Live, but seriously guys, BE HAPPY WE CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO!!!! That is the best thing.I have both games,and what I don't like about one,the other has.It is great we have a choice of games and don't have to be stuck with one like we are with that "other" game.......This is a good year to be a video basketball game player.

                        both of these games are great games.both have flaws.I can sit here and gripe about this and that,but I am just happy to be able to have more than one game.Competition makes games better,thank goodness we have choice in our NBA games.
                        I think people take things out of context and that is half the problem. 100% of the time I'm just using another game as a comparison and I am happy. It's like you guys think I'm bashing another game when I'm just using it as a comparison. People get bent over the silliest of things is all I know and read things the wrong way and its really silly after a while and should really stop. That goes for mods as well, because I get called out for stuff on these forums im not even saying 100% of the time.

                        I also think its lame that we have to sit here and kiss both games asses just to avoid confrontation or something being taken out of context. I think 2k9 has flaws to it. I lik ehte game and yeah it is a good game but i cant point out the flaws?
                        Last edited by Walker8; 11-29-2008, 05:27 PM.

                        Comment

                        • LB23
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 141

                          #72
                          Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                          After reading Czar's post, I'm starting to realize why you guys like Live more than 2K9. It's about how you view the game of NBA basketball and how it should be represented.

                          You guys like it mainly because of its spacing play calling, and DNA tendencies. That's what you feel should be implemented the most for the game. I disagree with that, that's why I couldn't understand what made yall like it more than 2k9.

                          In my opinion, the game has to be authentic to what I see on TV, and in the NBA, the main thing that sticks out are the unique styles of players. That's why I love 2K, and the main reason why I'm kinda fed up with Live.

                          Every player is unique in 2K, especially the stars. It's scary how much they play like their real life counterparts. I love watching all the free-throw routines,the dribbling styles, and the lay-up/dunk animations just to name a few.

                          When I see one of my favorite players pull off a signature move and see that same thing in 2k, it just amazing. Just look at http://www.operationsports.com/forum...gs-thread.html. Everything in there sums up why I love 2K so much more.

                          That's not the case in Live as everyone can do everything like Czar said. At first, I was a little OK with it, but it annoys me so much seing Wade do that sweet double clutch reverse and fall animation, then the very next possesion I see Peja (someone who you'd never see do something like that) do it. I really hate how everyone has Chris Paul's go-to-move, and how everyone's quickstrike is the same also.

                          To sum this all up, the reason I feel like Live isn't good enough, is because it doesn't look real enough. If someone walks in my room while I'm playing Live, they know I'm playing a video game. That's not the same with 2K9. At first glance, you could mistake it as a real game being played.

                          I'm not gonna lie, I thought some of you were crazy for thinking Live is better than 2K9 and liking it so much, but now I understand how people's preferences for what they like in their basketball game is different.

                          Comment

                          • sirjam
                            MVP
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 3535

                            #73
                            Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                            First off let me say I like all three games. 2k, live and ncaa. At first I was in mad love with 2k and hated live when I rented it before the patch an before the season started. After the patch and once the dna kicked in. I love live now.

                            I look at it like this live is nuts and bolts and 2k is bells and whistles. What I mean by this is live does a much better job of actual fundamental professional basketball. Pick and rolls, getting players to their hot spots, getting players to their comfortable spots on the floor, driving and kicking and so on.
                            Now conversely 2k is all about the flash like someone stated above. Its animations and player reactions and things of this nature. On the court its more like watching and1 basketball. For instance the unstoppable move of tapping the r trigger and getting that little step back hesitation and then go is the beginning of a classic and1 move. We just don't realize it because in and1 games they follow it up with 9 thousand more useless moves for entertainment. In the nba there may be a few players(Crawford, Alston, Telfair) and instances when the move is used. In 2k I know if I need a bucket I know that move is pretty much unstoppable, not realistic. Now the main 2 things that got me to try live out was the fact that in 2k even when the stars get the ball, you as the defender are not really that worried because to me the stars in this game are not cut throat, like they are in real life. And the other thing is lack of court spacing. Now I can drive and kick after I have manipulated the game sliders and outsmarted the engine. However it shouldn't be like that. Court spacing should be in the game at jump. Its fundamental, its what is taught on every level of basketball.
                            So before this post goes any longer I will rap it up, believe me I could go on all day. So basically in a nutshell to me 2k is like and 1 basketball and live is like old school basketball. One move or maybe 2 get yourself in your comfort zone and then make a play, just like they did in the 80's and 90's. When real nba basketball was taking place. Now like I said I am not bashing either game, I like them all, but to me live is more on the right track and 2k maybe getting a little to cocky because of the enormous positive feedback they have gotten over the years. Jus my opinion.

                            Comment

                            • Da_Czar
                              NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 5408

                              #74
                              Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                              to piggy back off Jfsolo and Jtdribbles I must say it has been refreshing to have a clear exchange of ideas without to much of the usual.

                              LB23 I completely see where your coming from. That bothers me with live a lot as well and its done SOooo well in 2k that its makes for a glaring omission when playing live... So much so that if not addressed in 2010 that would probably become a dealbreaker for me. Another year of everyone with the exact same crossovers would be tuff...
                              Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

                              Comment

                              • Da_Czar
                                NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 5408

                                #75
                                Re: Why Do You People like this Game?

                                Originally posted by sirjam
                                For instance the unstoppable move of tapping the r trigger and getting that little step back hesitation and then go is the beginning of a classic and1 move. We just don't realize it because in and1 games they follow it up with 9 thousand more useless moves for entertainment. I
                                Hilarious and accurate. That move is the street ballers setup Anthem if there ever was one.....
                                Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

                                Comment

                                Working...