MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

**Court_vision** · 11-05-2003, 01:58 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
silky4 said:

?????? Ummm, they have reason...it's called cutting to the basket, posting up, and setting picks. And these are the things they do whether you call a play or not. Basketball is a game of cutting and moving, not standing around watching someone go one-on-one all game.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's actually really interesting in the context of what the real NBA is nowadays. Basketball SHOULD BE as you say...but in the NBA, it rarely is. Sac v Dallas on a hot night, yep. 90% of other games...rare.

ESPN has much, much better off ball movement than NBA 2K3 did. IMO they have got a nice balance this year. There are guys going around double screens, cutting etc.

NBA 2K3 was horrible.

**spankdatazz22** · 11-05-2003, 06:47 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:

<hr /></blockquote> Espn is not more realistic to me, players just standing around with there thumbs up there @ss is not real to me at all. The players move more lif like in LIVe hands down, and with sliders form pared I have great stats, so I dont know how anyone could say ESPN is more real.

<hr /></blockquote>

It's an old and pointless debate...but the simple facts are, guys DO stand around a tonne in the NBA.

ESPN has NBA spacing and movement.

LIVE has NCAA spacing and movement, ie guys always rotating, guys always in deep pockets etc.

That happens to make for a better ball game...but it's not the NBA

You guys seem to want to hammer ESPN's flaws...while ignoring LIVE has no rebounding AI to speak of, every teams C rocket passes to the half court without even looking, the post game is way exaggerated with too much sliding...etc etc.

BOTH have flaws...but both are great games.

If your going to hammer one...you can't be blind to your own fav

Enjoy whichever one you go with...both are big, big improvements on last year.

It's really personal preference...simple as that. Some of the fella's will like LIVE's crowds better, some will like that ESPN has authentic arena sounds (ie ONLY the organ at MSG etc). Some will like the crowd noises better in LIVE, some will prefer the crowd actually being at the game and being in 3D in ESPN.

As Graphic said...each to his own.

<hr /></blockquote>

Very good post. I think neither is demonstrably better than the other, when everything is taken into context.

**spankdatazz22** · 11-05-2003, 06:47 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:

<hr /></blockquote> Espn is not more realistic to me, players just standing around with there thumbs up there @ss is not real to me at all. The players move more lif like in LIVe hands down, and with sliders form pared I have great stats, so I dont know how anyone could say ESPN is more real.

<hr /></blockquote>

It's an old and pointless debate...but the simple facts are, guys DO stand around a tonne in the NBA.

ESPN has NBA spacing and movement.

LIVE has NCAA spacing and movement, ie guys always rotating, guys always in deep pockets etc.

That happens to make for a better ball game...but it's not the NBA

You guys seem to want to hammer ESPN's flaws...while ignoring LIVE has no rebounding AI to speak of, every teams C rocket passes to the half court without even looking, the post game is way exaggerated with too much sliding...etc etc.

BOTH have flaws...but both are great games.

If your going to hammer one...you can't be blind to your own fav

Enjoy whichever one you go with...both are big, big improvements on last year.

It's really personal preference...simple as that. Some of the fella's will like LIVE's crowds better, some will like that ESPN has authentic arena sounds (ie ONLY the organ at MSG etc). Some will like the crowd noises better in LIVE, some will prefer the crowd actually being at the game and being in 3D in ESPN.

As Graphic said...each to his own.

<hr /></blockquote>

Very good post. I think neither is demonstrably better than the other, when everything is taken into context.

**spankdatazz22** · 11-05-2003, 06:47 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:

<hr /></blockquote> Espn is not more realistic to me, players just standing around with there thumbs up there @ss is not real to me at all. The players move more lif like in LIVe hands down, and with sliders form pared I have great stats, so I dont know how anyone could say ESPN is more real.

<hr /></blockquote>

It's an old and pointless debate...but the simple facts are, guys DO stand around a tonne in the NBA.

ESPN has NBA spacing and movement.

LIVE has NCAA spacing and movement, ie guys always rotating, guys always in deep pockets etc.

That happens to make for a better ball game...but it's not the NBA

You guys seem to want to hammer ESPN's flaws...while ignoring LIVE has no rebounding AI to speak of, every teams C rocket passes to the half court without even looking, the post game is way exaggerated with too much sliding...etc etc.

BOTH have flaws...but both are great games.

If your going to hammer one...you can't be blind to your own fav

Enjoy whichever one you go with...both are big, big improvements on last year.

It's really personal preference...simple as that. Some of the fella's will like LIVE's crowds better, some will like that ESPN has authentic arena sounds (ie ONLY the organ at MSG etc). Some will like the crowd noises better in LIVE, some will prefer the crowd actually being at the game and being in 3D in ESPN.

As Graphic said...each to his own.

<hr /></blockquote>

Very good post. I think neither is demonstrably better than the other, when everything is taken into context.

**neovsmatrix** · 11-05-2003, 07:27 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
silky4 said:

?????? Ummm, they have reason...it's called cutting to the basket, posting up, and setting picks. And these are the things they do whether you call a play or not. Basketball is a game of cutting and moving, not standing around watching someone go one-on-one all game.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's actually really interesting in the context of what the real NBA is nowadays. Basketball SHOULD BE as you say...but in the NBA, it rarely is. Sac v Dallas on a hot night, yep. 90% of other games...rare.

ESPN has much, much better off ball movement than NBA 2K3 did. IMO they have got a nice balance this year. There are guys going around double screens, cutting etc.

NBA 2K3 was horrible.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, now if only Visual Concepts could fix the corner 3's problem (A lot of NBA players float there when a play is broken for the easy 3 and it should happen in the game, IMHO), and if they could add authentic plays that are exclusive to a team/coach, then it might be almost perfect if not perfect. I hope they do it next year, I really do.

**neovsmatrix** · 11-05-2003, 07:27 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
silky4 said:

?????? Ummm, they have reason...it's called cutting to the basket, posting up, and setting picks. And these are the things they do whether you call a play or not. Basketball is a game of cutting and moving, not standing around watching someone go one-on-one all game.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's actually really interesting in the context of what the real NBA is nowadays. Basketball SHOULD BE as you say...but in the NBA, it rarely is. Sac v Dallas on a hot night, yep. 90% of other games...rare.

ESPN has much, much better off ball movement than NBA 2K3 did. IMO they have got a nice balance this year. There are guys going around double screens, cutting etc.

NBA 2K3 was horrible.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, now if only Visual Concepts could fix the corner 3's problem (A lot of NBA players float there when a play is broken for the easy 3 and it should happen in the game, IMHO), and if they could add authentic plays that are exclusive to a team/coach, then it might be almost perfect if not perfect. I hope they do it next year, I really do.

**neovsmatrix** · 11-05-2003, 07:27 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
monkey said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
silky4 said:

?????? Ummm, they have reason...it's called cutting to the basket, posting up, and setting picks. And these are the things they do whether you call a play or not. Basketball is a game of cutting and moving, not standing around watching someone go one-on-one all game.

<hr /></blockquote>

That's actually really interesting in the context of what the real NBA is nowadays. Basketball SHOULD BE as you say...but in the NBA, it rarely is. Sac v Dallas on a hot night, yep. 90% of other games...rare.

ESPN has much, much better off ball movement than NBA 2K3 did. IMO they have got a nice balance this year. There are guys going around double screens, cutting etc.

NBA 2K3 was horrible.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, now if only Visual Concepts could fix the corner 3's problem (A lot of NBA players float there when a play is broken for the easy 3 and it should happen in the game, IMHO), and if they could add authentic plays that are exclusive to a team/coach, then it might be almost perfect if not perfect. I hope they do it next year, I really do.

**RoyalBoyle78** · 11-05-2003, 08:11 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

**RoyalBoyle78** · 11-05-2003, 08:11 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

**RoyalBoyle78** · 11-05-2003, 08:11 AM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

**ATrillionaire** · 11-05-2003, 12:52 PM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:
First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

<hr /></blockquote>

You obviously haven't been a big fan of the 2k series for the last 4 years if you could play NBA2k3, where players standing around all day way the norm, and call ESPN player movement horrid, even though player movement has improved dramatically. Sorry, but if you think ESPN player movement is a horrible gamekiller(I think it's great), than I don't think anyone would believe that you loved NBA 2k3. "Oh well that my take on it."

**ATrillionaire** · 11-05-2003, 12:52 PM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:
First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

<hr /></blockquote>

You obviously haven't been a big fan of the 2k series for the last 4 years if you could play NBA2k3, where players standing around all day way the norm, and call ESPN player movement horrid, even though player movement has improved dramatically. Sorry, but if you think ESPN player movement is a horrible gamekiller(I think it's great), than I don't think anyone would believe that you loved NBA 2k3. "Oh well that my take on it."

**ATrillionaire** · 11-05-2003, 12:52 PM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
FootballForever said:
First and formost no one is bashing ESPN, let me tell you somthing, I been a big ESPN aka (NBA2k) fan for the last four years, Im mean hard core. I got ESPN this year and It changed this, but for the worse IMO its just not the same game. I just think the gameplay is just horried this year. The players just stand around like there waiting for a cab, and dont say anthing to me cause Ive been a avid fan of this seriers since it came out. Now getting the game playing like the NBA, yes LIVE is more real IMO cause players in the NBA dont stand around like you say they do, everytime I watch the NBA the players are always moving all the time. ESPN just dosen't feel real anymore, Oh well that my take on it.

<hr /></blockquote>

You obviously haven't been a big fan of the 2k series for the last 4 years if you could play NBA2k3, where players standing around all day way the norm, and call ESPN player movement horrid, even though player movement has improved dramatically. Sorry, but if you think ESPN player movement is a horrible gamekiller(I think it's great), than I don't think anyone would believe that you loved NBA 2k3. "Oh well that my take on it."

**wwharton** · 11-05-2003, 01:00 PM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

you and i both know when you watch an nba game you don't watch off the ball. you don't pick a time to just watch the SG, for instance. See how he's moving to get open, off of double screens or without any help at all. You're not watching what the weak side players are doing at any particular time. You're enjoying the game. I've been coaching for 9 years so I watch that type of stuff all the time whether it be HS, college or pro but I recognize that I'm a sick person, lol. I enjoy watching this stuff while it's not really just watching the game. 90% of people watch on the ball only.

Now of course it's not true that they never call plays in the NBA and I'm still trying to figure out the rationale for limiting the playbook so much in ESPN. However, without even calling plays the movement and spacing is at a very realistic NBA pace. For one game, watch the movement of one player only for a couple of plays. Hell, watch the rooks tonight.

I hate this whole comparison crap. People should just play what they want. Which is more realistic? Who cares? But I gotta call people out for some of their statements b/c it makes one wonder if they really are looking for a realistic game when they can watch a real game and still see things that aren't happening. Perceived reality and real reality are different and many Live fans talking about the constant movement seem to want what's perceived. That's cool for you, but don't try to pass it off as real.

**wwharton** · 11-05-2003, 01:00 PM

Re: MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

you and i both know when you watch an nba game you don't watch off the ball. you don't pick a time to just watch the SG, for instance. See how he's moving to get open, off of double screens or without any help at all. You're not watching what the weak side players are doing at any particular time. You're enjoying the game. I've been coaching for 9 years so I watch that type of stuff all the time whether it be HS, college or pro but I recognize that I'm a sick person, lol. I enjoy watching this stuff while it's not really just watching the game. 90% of people watch on the ball only.

Now of course it's not true that they never call plays in the NBA and I'm still trying to figure out the rationale for limiting the playbook so much in ESPN. However, without even calling plays the movement and spacing is at a very realistic NBA pace. For one game, watch the movement of one player only for a couple of plays. Hell, watch the rooks tonight.

I hate this whole comparison crap. People should just play what they want. Which is more realistic? Who cares? But I gotta call people out for some of their statements b/c it makes one wonder if they really are looking for a realistic game when they can watch a real game and still see things that aren't happening. Perceived reality and real reality are different and many Live fans talking about the constant movement seem to want what's perceived. That's cool for you, but don't try to pass it off as real.

MAN I LOVED LIVE..............

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