What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

what does any of this have to do with Mike

The thread is on page 11.

[GSW]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

my point was keep it on topic... i came to see what people thought about MJ and i see two people talking about what degree is better...

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

my point was keep it on topic... i came to see what people thought about MJ and i see two people talking about what degree is better...

After reading 10 pages of fresh and new insight, you get to page 11 and expect it to get even better? I agree with you in that I fail to see what not having a marketing degree has to do with anything.

[blackceasar]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

After reading 10 pages of fresh and new insight, you get to page 11 and expect it to get even better? I agree with you in that I fail to see what not having a marketing degree has to do with anything.

*sigh*. If you followed marketing trends you could draw a connection to why some people today when posed the MJ vs Whoever question they automatically almost without heistation say MJ without even giving it a thought. Yet you took the time to quote me, then basically said I didnt know what I was talking about. So I figured maybe if you had studied marketing in school you probably wouldnt have felt compelled to quote me in the first place. But oh well, Im still proud of you

[rsnomar05]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

yea but jordan also could at least had 8 rings, he retired for a couple of years remeber. that year he retired the bulls lost in the conf finals I think.

to people saying that he would dominate now with the new rules, I think he would in his prime remeber he was like 40 when he played for the wizards and still put up numbers, how many of those old players did that?

to blackceaser, who said jordan was far superior to the other players than kobe and lebron is to this era players. thats why is one of the GOAT's. thats why kobe anit as good as jordan yet. penny hardaway was as good as kobe was when he was in his prime and he wasnt on jordans level in the 90's. I can say the same thing about all of the other guards who played in the late 90's like clyde and D.wilkins. kobe and lebron are great players but the nba and us people want the next jordan soooo bad that will over hype these players and start calling guys the next MJ.That comment rite there prove that jordan mite be THE GOAT you dont hear poeple waiting for the next wilt or russell

First of all, 8 is not 11. And that's assuming he would have had 8. And to your comment on "the next MJ," that's what people used to say about Russell. The problem is that Russell was in his prime in the 60's. You don't hear people saying, "WOW! That forward is the next Bobby Orr!" You do, however, hear people saying, "I think he could be better than Lemieux!" You don't hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Cy Young." No, you hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Clemens or Pedro." Why? Because these greats are most recent on most people's minds. Also, People aren't going to compare Kobe and Lebron to Russell because BILL WAS A CENTER! And when people compare a center to the next "Shaq," thats because 1). The center is usually near the same size as Shaq and 2). Shaq is the most recent dominating center on most people's minds. When Bird retired, people all wondered who the next "Larry" would be. We're not looking for the next Joe Namath in the NFL. We're looking for the next Peyton Manning and Dan Marino.

[SonicMage]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

First of all, 8 is not 11. And that's assuming he would have had 8. And to your comment on "the next MJ," that's what people used to say about Russell. The problem is that Russell was in his prime in the 60's. You don't hear people saying, "WOW! That forward is the next Bobby Orr!" You do, however, hear people saying, "I think he could be better than Lemieux!" You don't hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Cy Young." No, you hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Clemens or Pedro." Why? Because these greats are most recent on most people's minds. Also, People aren't going to compare Kobe and Lebron to Russell because BILL WAS A CENTER! And when people compare a center to the next "Shaq," thats because 1). The center is usually near the same size as Shaq and 2). Shaq is the most recent dominating center on most people's minds. When Bird retired, people all wondered who the next "Larry" would be. We're not looking for the next Joe Namath in the NFL. We're looking for the next Peyton Manning and Dan Marino.

Wait...what player is compared to SHAQ?! The closest Ive heard was that Schortsinitis guy or whatever but he was called a "Baby Shaq".

And for your information, those "in the know" tend to compare players to those from all eras.

[blackceasar]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Wait...what player is compared to SHAQ?! The closest Ive heard was that Schortsinitis guy or whatever but he was called a "Baby Shaq".

And for your information, those "in the know" tend to compare players to those from all eras.

Yup but the average person walking down the street isnt exactly an "in the know" person. They are "casual" basketball fans and the casual fan is always going to talk about what they know which is what they saw in thier own era or what they are seeing today. I never said Jordan wasnt the GOAT, but I think there are more "casual" fans than the "in the know" people and 99 times out of 100 your casual fan is gonna say MJ without thinking about it. Doesnt mean hes NOT, but they dont bother to really look back and think about it.

[SonicMage]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Yup but the average person walking down the street isnt exactly an "in the know" person. They are "casual" basketball fans and the casual fan is always going to talk about what they know which is what they saw in thier own era or what they are seeing today. I never said Jordan wasnt the GOAT, but I think there are more "casual" fans than the "in the know" people and 99 times out of 100 your casual fan is gonna say MJ without thinking about it. Doesnt mean hes NOT, but they dont bother to really look back and think about it.

Why is anybody even listening to what the average person has to say on the subject anyways? I would rather hear what those who know much more than the casual fan would know have to say.

You dont go to the average person to find out which stocks or bonds to invest in. You dont go to the average person to find out how to avoid a serious infection. You dont go to the average person to find out how to build a fast and stable home computer system. Oh, I just remembered, there are people who do that, and those are also the people who never find the answers they were looking for.

[Jukeman]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

First of all, 8 is not 11. And that's assuming he would have had 8. And to your comment on "the next MJ," that's what people used to say about Russell. The problem is that Russell was in his prime in the 60's. You don't hear people saying, "WOW! That forward is the next Bobby Orr!" You do, however, hear people saying, "I think he could be better than Lemieux!" You don't hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Cy Young." No, you hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Clemens or Pedro." Why? Because these greats are most recent on most people's minds. Also, People aren't going to compare Kobe and Lebron to Russell because BILL WAS A CENTER! And when people compare a center to the next "Shaq," thats because 1). The center is usually near the same size as Shaq and 2). Shaq is the most recent dominating center on most people's minds. When Bird retired, people all wondered who the next "Larry" would be. We're not looking for the next Joe Namath in the NFL. We're looking for the next Peyton Manning and Dan Marino.

I said at LEAST 8, he coulda had 11 or more if he never retired the first time. and I guarentee 10 years from now you will still hear people calling for the next MJ.also some players now are compare to legends but not as much as people look for the next jordan.Lebron is compared to Magic but people want jordan bad that they compare him to jordan. Iverson was compared to isaiah thomas just to name a few, the guy adam morrison from gonzaga is compared to larry Bird. I also remember somebody getting compared to Oscar Robinson, I forgot who at the moment but I think it was jason kidd Im not sure. oh yeah lebron was compared to him too for about a week into his rookie season.

and Im smart enuff to kno lebron and kobe will not get compared to russell, I was just making a point.

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

*sigh*. If you followed marketing trends you could draw a connection to why some people today when posed the MJ vs Whoever question they automatically almost without heistation say MJ without even giving it a thought. Yet you took the time to quote me, then basically said I didnt know what I was talking about. So I figured maybe if you had studied marketing in school you probably wouldnt have felt compelled to quote me in the first place. But oh well, Im still proud of you

I didnt dismiss the the marketing angle but you attribute far too much to that. Again, the posturing is played.

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

First of all, 8 is not 11. And that's assuming he would have had 8. And to your comment on "the next MJ," that's what people used to say about Russell. The problem is that Russell was in his prime in the 60's. You don't hear people saying, "WOW! That forward is the next Bobby Orr!" You do, however, hear people saying, "I think he could be better than Lemieux!" You don't hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Cy Young." No, you hear people saying, "Felix Hernandez will be the next Clemens or Pedro." Why? Because these greats are most recent on most people's minds. Also, People aren't going to compare Kobe and Lebron to Russell because BILL WAS A CENTER! And when people compare a center to the next "Shaq," thats because 1). The center is usually near the same size as Shaq and 2). Shaq is the most recent dominating center on most people's minds. When Bird retired, people all wondered who the next "Larry" would be. We're not looking for the next Joe Namath in the NFL. We're looking for the next Peyton Manning and Dan Marino.

If what you say it true then why is Jim Brown held in such high regard by many who never saw him play and why is Eric Dickerson a lightly regarded footnote in the record books? Also, people are more apt to look for the next Rod Laver than Pete Sampras.

[NovaStar]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever. Why? because when you speak of marketing and Jordan what came first? Jordan. If it were not for the greatness of the man, the marketing machine would have never been turned on. Many times it has been said by many sprorts prognosticators that today's athlete (not just NBA) has Michael Jordan to think for the opportunities in marketing they now have access to. Jordan created the marketing, marketing did not create Michael Jordan. If you poll his peers, Jordan is hands down the greates to play the game. Let's remember, the golden age of basketball took place during Jordan's,Bird's and Magic's era. During Wilts and Russells era basketball was still trying to grow an audience not to mention the fact that Wilt and Russell were the two biggest names at the time, there weren't many other big men to compare them two so they were compared to how they played against each other.

Again, in any discussion with those in the know, if you are going to start a greatest of all time basketball team, and as your pool of players you got to choose from the greatest players of any era, most people will start with Jordan, any other player you could replace with another great, not Jordan.

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever. Why? because when you speak of marketing and Jordan what came first? Jordan. If it were not for the greatness of the man, the marketing machine would have never been turned on. Many times it has been said by many sprorts prognosticators that today's athlete (not just NBA) has Michael Jordan to think for the opportunities in marketing they now have access to. Jordan created the marketing, marketing did not create Michael Jordan. If you poll his peers, Jordan is hands down the greates to play the game. Let's remember, the golden age of basketball took place during Jordan's,Bird's and Magic's era. During Wilts and Russells era basketball was still trying to grow an audience not to mention the fact that Wilt and Russell were the two biggest names at the time, there weren't many other big men to compare them two so they were compared to how they played against each other.

Again, in any discussion with those in the know, if you are going to start a greatest of all time basketball team, and as your pool of players you got to choose from the greatest players of any era, most people will start with Jordan, any other player you could replace with another great, not Jordan.

Well Jordan did come into the league with his own shoe but it was his play that made them appealing. With each amazing feat he fed the monster where hype/marketing was concerned. It was like a balloon that kept expanding with each successive feat...and you wondered if it would ever burst but it never did. Even in the years before the Bulls started winning, there were times like the 63 in the Garden. Plus, Ill never forget the shot against Cleveland when the crowd was about to rush the court in the final three seconds only to see Jordan rip their hearts out with that epic shot. Again, the marketing/hype was perpetuated by the feats, especially those in the clutch. A defense first center in any era will never have the same appeal regardless of the degree of marketing. Bill Russell was a great player though. Plus they won matter-of-factly and the Celtics were a solid team without Russell as they won with him as a coach.

[rsnomar05]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Well Jordan did come into the league with his own shoe but it was his play that made them appealing. With each amazing feat he fed the monster where hype/marketing was concerned. It was like a balloon that kept expanding with each successive feat...and you wondered if it would ever burst but it never did. Even in the years before the Bulls started winning, there were times like the 63 in the Garden. Plus, Ill never forget the shot against Cleveland when the crowd was about to rush the court in the final three seconds only to see Jordan rip their hearts out with that epic shot. Again, the marketing/hype was perpetuated by the feats, especially those in the clutch. A defense first center in any era will never have the same appeal regardless of the degree of marketing. Bill Russell was a great player though. Plus they won matter-of-factly and the Celtics were a solid team without Russell as they won with him as a coach.

Bill Russell was a player coach. He was still playing. And appeal doesn't equal greatness. Russell would have had the Nike contract were basketball as big then as it is today, but the big endorsement deals went to professional baseball players. The real fact is that we will never agree. And it's really impossible to say who the real GOAT is because they were two radically different players.

Russell was a team-first guy who excelled at defense and rebounding. He had a great mid-range jumper, but the Celtics used him to draw double teams so that shorter players such as Havlicek and Cousy could get open looks. He had 50 rebounds against Wilt on two occasions in the finals, and was capable of single-handedly carrying his team with his ability to pull-down offensive rebounds and give his shooters second and third-chance opportunities. he is definately the best defensive player of all time.

Jordan was not team-first. He improved later on in his career, but in his early years his teammates would complain that he was a ball-hog. This didn't matter, because he was so incredibly gifted at scoring that he could carry a team by himself. It didn't matter if they double-teamed him. He could shred through the defense and score like no one else in the history of the game. He is definately the best offensive player of all time.

Who was better?

Russell defensively, Jordan offensively.

Overall, I think Russell, you think Jordan.

We won't ever agree, except for the fact that they were both incredible players.

Russell won the last GOAT award, but this was in the early 90's during NBA History month, and Jordan was not eligible. If they do another, it will be interesting to see who wins.

[glucklich]

Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?

Bill Russell was a player coach. He was still playing. And appeal doesn't equal greatness. Russell would have had the Nike contract were basketball as big then as it is today, but the big endorsement deals went to professional baseball players. The real fact is that we will never agree. And it's really impossible to say who the real GOAT is because they were two radically different players.

Russell was a team-first guy who excelled at defense and rebounding. He had a great mid-range jumper, but the Celtics used him to draw double teams so that shorter players such as Havlicek and Cousy could get open looks. He had 50 rebounds against Wilt on two occasions in the finals, and was capable of single-handedly carrying his team with his ability to pull-down offensive rebounds and give his shooters second and third-chance opportunities. he is definately the best defensive player of all time.

Jordan was not team-first. He improved later on in his career, but in his early years his teammates would complain that he was a ball-hog. This didn't matter, because he was so incredibly gifted at scoring that he could carry a team by himself. It didn't matter if they double-teamed him. He could shred through the defense and score like no one else in the history of the game. He is definately the best offensive player of all time.

Who was better?

Russell defensively, Jordan offensively.

Overall, I think Russell, you think Jordan.

We won't ever agree, except for the fact that they were both incredible players.

Russell won the last GOAT award, but this was in the early 90's during NBA History month, and Jordan was not eligible. If they do another, it will be interesting to see who wins.

In Jordans case marketing appeal was a sign of greatness. Thats not to say that Russell wasnt great because his style was less marketable (ie not as flashy/clutch, etc). You can be great without being marketable like Jordan but in Jordans case, greatness was what was being marketed as much as anything else. Also, you give credit to Russell where the credit should be going to Red Auerbach. He put those Celtics teams together. Red Auerbach was the difference between the Celtics/Russell winning and not the Warriors/Chamberlain. Youre basically penalizing Jordan because Red Auerbach (or his equivalent) wasnt the coach/gm of the Bulls in his early years.