Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

[Pointguard]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

I disagree SoMiss. Dirk is definitely in the MVP discussions.

Matter of fact he's IMO the #1 or #2 candidate depending on what you're looking for.

Thats all that needs to be said.

[23]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Eh... my thing about that is Kobe is doing it with little to no help. He's been without lamar for a lot of time, Kwame and all of the bigs have spent time on the IR, but yet the Lakers continue to win behind the leadership that he's provided. His numbers aren't always stellar, but he makes sure he's getting the job done.

Duncan, in my opinion, has one of the better guards in the game, in Tony Parker, alongside Michael Finlay, who's having a pretty decent season, as well as Ginobli, who has been up and down, but who can still detract some of the focus from Timmy D. Don't get me wrong, he's having a good season, but I think Kobe/LBJ are still ahead of him.

Hogwash man. Kobe has plenty of help and the injury excuse is just that, an excuse. Every team in the league has suffered some kind of damaging injury to key players, and the lakers are no exception.


As far as Boozer, numbers aren't the entire story in the case carraba is using. Duncan has consistently remained on of the top PER and most efficient players as the leader of his team and they are always top of the standings year in and out. He's always in consideration doing this so consistently.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Hogwash man. Kobe has plenty of help and the injury excuse is just that, an excuse. Every team in the league has suffered some kind of damaging injury to key players, and the lakers are no exception.

Every team? What about the Suns, Mavs, Spurs? All three of those teams have an MVP canidate.

The fact that the Lakers are where they're at in the standings is amazing. They've had a generous home schedule thus far, but Bryant's production without Odom in the lineup puts him near the top with Nash, Lebron, Dirk.

Bryant has "plenty of help", but Nash's, Dirk's, Duncan's "help" > Kobe's "help".

[23]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Ok, so again I guess your Boozer numbers go out of the window when it comes to Kobe? AK's been playing like garbage.

I don't know what your criteria is, but as I said, every team has had some kind of set back.

Bryant has a case, but he had one last year, and it wasn't the best case to make.

I mean you bring up lamar when I recall Lakers fans not long ago calling the guy Lamar Odumb. That injury thing is not going to help Kobe, and as you can see it takes better results than something people have seen before.

[SPTO]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Dirk is regularly in the top 3 but I think one reason why he doesn't get as much LOUD pub for a lack of a better term is because he's just very consistent without being flashy. This hasn't stopped guys like Nash and Duncan tho so I dunno....

Maybe it's because they want to punish anything associated with Cuban? "shrugs"

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Ok, so again I guess your Boozer numbers go out of the window when it comes to Kobe? AK's been playing like garbage.

I don't know what your criteria is, but as I said, every team has had some kind of set back.

Bryant has a case, but he had one last year, and it wasn't the best case to make.

I mean you bring up lamar when I recall Lakers fans not long ago calling the guy Lamar Odumb. That injury thing is not going to help Kobe, and as you can see it takes better results than something people have seen before.

Boozer? Kobe has nothing to do with Boozer. I don't know what you mean when you say "Boozer numbers go out the window"? I mentioned Boozer earlier, because his numbers compare well with Duncan's, and the Jazz's record so far is pretty darn respectable because of Boozer. I also don't merely see him as a garbage man on the boards, he actually has a decent offensive skillset.

I don't have a quote, unquote criteria. I look at Nash, and see what he injects into that team, and in my eyes that's the MVP. It's really a case by case, team by team thing. The only "criteria" I guess I have is that the team wins at least more than 45 games. Especially if your team is in the East. But I would imagine, that's pretty obvious.

So how exactly do the Suns, Mavs, or Spurs have a setback? That they have too much talent around the canidates? I don't see any "setbacks" to those three teams.

I wasn't the one who initially brought up Odom, but the bottom line is, what Bryant is doing this season is impressive, and the fact that Odom is out, has to at least make it look a bit more impressive. Odom has stepped up his game, last year he would tuck his tail between his legs just to let Bryant do it all on the offensive side. Before Odom got hurt, he was having a borderline All-Star year, playing even better than he did that season in Miami.

[23]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

I don't think Stern choses MVP

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

1. Nash
2. Dirk
3. Arenas
4. Duncan
5. James

[ZB9]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

i have a question

if Nash is such an MVP elite caliber player, then how did his former team GET BETTER immediately after he left? Dallas needed Nash to LEAVE for them to get to the "next level"...and people are talking about Nash winning 3 straight MVPs? give me a break.

Nash is obviously very good, and is the best offensive PG in the league imo...but there is no way he should win 3 MVPs in a row. That would be ridiculous.

[ZB9]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

imo,
1. Dirk
2. Duncan
3. Nash
4. Kobe
5. Arenas

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

i have a question

if Nash is such an MVP elite caliber player, then how did his former team GET BETTER immediately after he left? Dallas needed Nash to leave for them to get to the "next level"

Nash is obviously very good, and is the best offensive PG in the league imo...but there is no way he should win 3 MVPs in a row. That would be ridiculous.

Coaching, emergence of Howard are my best guesses. Not to get theoretical, but Amare was reaching a level that was plain disgusting before he got injured and couldn't play last season.

This season, with a scaled down Amare, we'll see if it's enough to get to the finals, and then the debate may be settled over Nash.

[ZB9]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

Coaching, emergence of Howard are my best guesses. Not to get theoretical, but Amare was reaching a level that was plain disgusting before he got injured and couldn't play last season.

coaching and supporting cast dont have anything to do with Pheonix being the 3rd best team in the West? Steve Nash fits that system perfectly. Put him on another team that doesnt have a "circus" system like the Suns and he would still be good, but Nash wouldnt win as many games or put up anywhere close to the numbers he is now. The success of Nash is mainly attributed to the system that Pheonix runs imo.

and If he were still in Dallas, i imagine Dallas would not be as good as they are now. Do you think the Lakers would have been BETTER after Magic Johnson left? I believe Magic is the only player to win 3 straight. That is the type of elite level we are talking about and Nash is no where close to that imo.

Again, Dallas got better immediately after Nash left. It took Nash leaving for Pheonix for the Mavs to become a legit contender. There is no way he is a Magic Johnson level player. If Nash wins 3 straight MVPs then the award is a joke.

This season, with a scaled down Amare, we'll see if it's enough to get to the finals, and then the debate my be settled over Nash.

true. when is the NBA MVP announced? is it after the regular season or after the playoffs? i cant remember

[aholbert32]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

i have a question

if Nash is such an MVP elite caliber player, then how did his former team GET BETTER immediately after he left? Dallas needed Nash to LEAVE for them to get to the "next level"...and people are talking about Nash winning 3 straight MVPs? give me a break.

Nash is obviously very good, and is the best offensive PG in the league imo...but there is no way he should win 3 MVPs in a row. That would be ridiculous.

I think Avery Johnson being Head Coach has way more to do with Dallas going to the next level than Nash leaving.

[ZB9]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

I think Avery Johnson being Head Coach has way more to do with Dallas going to the next level than Nash leaving.

yet D'Antoni's circus system in Phoenix has nothing to do with Nash's numbers or the success of the Suns?

btw, Avery is obviously very good (one of the best in the league imo) but this is his SECOND year coaching. He is basically still a rookie in coaching.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Question to the House: Why Isn't Dirk in MVP Discussion?

coaching and supporting cast dont have anything to do with Pheonix being the 3rd best team in the West? Steve Nash fits that system perfectly. Put him on another team that doesnt have a "circus" system like the Suns and he would still be good, but Nash wouldnt win as many games or put up anywhere close to the numbers he is now. The success of Nash is mainly attributed to the system that Pheonix runs imo.

and If he were still in Dallas, i imagine Dallas would not be as good as they are now. Do you think the Lakers would have been BETTER after Magic Johnson left? I believe Magic is the only player to win 3 straight. That is the type of elite level we are talking about and Nash is no where close to that imo.

Again, Dallas got better immediately after Nash left. It took Nash leaving for Pheonix for the Mavs to become a legit contender. There is no way he is a Magic Johnson level player. If Nash wins 3 straight MVPs then the award is a joke.



true. when is the NBA MVP announced? is it after the regular season or after the playoffs? i cant remember

Well you asked why his former team got better, and I gave you a couple of factors. As far as the Suns being third best in the West, I don't know what you're talking about, their record is just as good as the Mavs (Mavs have three more wins to this point).

I do agree that it's all the system that the Suns run.. but it's a system that puts up wins and that's the bottomline. You can't argue results, and once again not to get into the what ifs, but had Amare not gotten hurt, they could've had more than just regular season wins, they could've had a ring.

As far as your point about him leaving thus resulting in the Mavs drastic improvement, it's not like the Mavs have a ring, or they're a dynasty all of a sudden.

If Nash were on the current Mavs team, assuming meaning no Terry, I would disagree and say they'd be just fine. That's how much I believe in Johnson coaching over Nelly.

To me, MVP is pointless anyways, since Shaq never won every year as a younger player, and MJ never won it three in a row. But I have to say who cares if Nash isn't Magic? He's doing things in his own way and it's producing results, that's the bottomline.