The LeBron James Thread

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yea wwharton it does seem like he talking out of some where else.


Man I remember when LeBron ended Lenny Cooke career back in the ABCD camp. No one knew him before that (maybe me and a handful of scouts).

[TheShizNo1]

Lol. I'm not sure how much of a leader I'd call Kobe. I've never seen Kobe quit in the WCF either though. I do know that Kobe has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter the likes we've never seen from LBJ and maybe never will.

Your later post has nothing to do with what I'm saying or what I said, so honestly no, I don't feel the need to respond to it.

As far as clutch that's my opinion. I havent seen LBJ make many clutch shots that weren't dunks/lay ups.

Not sure how I'm talking out of my *** with this here though. Maybe you dont agree with my opinion but nothing I said was wrong.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Ya'll are funny.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What is the difference between making a clutch shot weither it's a dunk or a layup or a jumpshot? You make you make man... All the details don't matter anymore after lol.

Sorry for "out of his some where comment". But your using your feelings and opinion don't rock for me in this subject.

edit: Its like saying "I don't believe smoking give people lung cancer." Even though the numbers point toward it"

[TheShizNo1]

What is the difference between making a clutch shot weither it's a dunk or a layup or a jumpshot? You make you make man... All the details don't matter anymore after lol.

Sorry for "out of his some where comment". But your using your feelings and opinion don't rock for me in this subject.

Doesn't matter? Sure mattered in that game against the Bulls or a team like the Celtics in which you won't be able to muscle your way off your GOD given ability to hole with a dunk.


Really? What numbers point to him making game winning shots that aren't dunks? Or him actually showing up in the 4th quarter when he's expected to take over as opposed to know one expecting anything of him against the Pistons and him pulling out one of the best single game performances I've ever seen.

Not sure where you guys are getting me using emotion. Also it's a discussion site, I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to use my opinion.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It doesn't have to mean it, obviously, but in some cases it applies.

To this one, it does.

Also, check 82games.com's criteria for "clutch", to me that's a fair criteria.

It doesn't apply, lol. It's his opinion and he described his definition of clutch which is different than 82games.com and what some are saying here. Either way, people in general are too quick to call someone ignorant or a ***** if they have a difference of opinion. You provide good argument backed with some info... in this case you may even be able to prove him wrong but it still doesn't make him ignorant or a *****. That's all I'm saying.

For the record I wouldn't say Lebron isn't clutch based on either definition, but I also wouldn't say he's one of the most clutch players in the league either but I got into all of that earlier (in this thread I think). I also think it would be interesting to look at how LBJ has done in situations when his team was the favorite and it came down to someone stepping up to make a play.

I'll also add that just like anywhere else, clutch will always be subjective because you can't really gauge it without watching tape and then making determinations based on your own opinion. For example, I think Steve Nash is clutch even though he may rarely take the big shot. When a big play is needed, he makes the right decision 9 times out of 10, whether it's a shot or a pass. I question Lebron's decision making... and I guess it's necessary to point out that I mean relative to other elite players he'd be compared to in these discussions, not in general.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Lol. I'm not sure how much of a leader I'd call Kobe. I've never seen Kobe quit in the WCF either though. I do know that Kobe has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter the likes we've never seen from LBJ and maybe never will.

Your later post has nothing to do with what I'm saying or what I said, so honestly no, I don't feel the need to respond to it.

As far as clutch that's my opinion. I havent seen LBJ make many clutch shots that weren't dunks/lay ups.

Not sure how I'm talking out of my *** with this here though. Maybe you dont agree with my opinion but nothing I said was wrong.

You saw Kobe quit in the playoffs though right? Yeah, he even quit to a higher degree than your boy LeBron.

Kobe might be the best "buzzer beater" player in the league, but his clutch stats are horrendous.

LeBron has hit a ton of jumpers in the "clutch" especially last year... I'm not sure how you could have missed them.

My later post has everything to do with what you're trying to tell people. He's been as clutch as any player in the league the past several years. Taking a cast that has no business doing damage in the playoffs, to the Finals and conference finals. He's put up mind boggling production when it has counted most, unfortunately for him, the team he's had just hasn't been up to par with stacked teams like LA and Boston and Orlando [in 2009].

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What is wrong with passing the basketball to a player with a better look? For example, Wade misses the shot. Mike Miller rebounds the ball. Kicks it out to LeBron. Who has a good look. The defender come to close out. LeBron makes one more pass to the wide open Eddie House. Bang up by 2. What is wrong with that play in the context of basketball?

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What is the difference between making a clutch shot weither it's a dunk or a layup or a jumpshot? You make you make man... All the details don't matter anymore after lol.

Sorry for "out of his some where comment". But your using your feelings and opinion don't rock for me in this subject.

edit: Its like saying "I don't believe smoking give people lung cancer." Even though the numbers point toward it"

I have to reply here too, lol. It does make a bit of a difference. In pressure situations people get "butterflies", tense up, lose focus, etc. Layups and dunks especially shoudn't be effected much by these things while jump shots would be.

Now, with that said, you also have to consider the ability to get to the rim in a pressure situation (that's gotta count for something). And I've seen James hit enough jump shots (relative to how many he hits anyway... his jumper just isn't as good as Kobe's so he shouldn't be expected to make as many in the clutch or otherwise) to disagree with the idea that he misses all of those "in the clutch".

But also, again, you can't just look at numbers. I wouldn't consider it "clutch" if James chooses to shoot a foot behind the 3 point line with a hand in his face if one dribble leaves a teammate wide open 4 feet closer, or a better 3 point shooter open if a 3 is needed for the win. It's not always about taking the last shot. I don't remember the game (I know you do, lol) but the play he made to get the ball to Miller at the top of the key was PERFECT and Miller just missed the shot. But that seemed more like a play drawn up by the coach than a great decision in the clutch. Unfortunately, there are too many variables to consider to really judge the way we're trying to.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It doesn't apply, lol. It's his opinion and he described his definition of clutch which is different than 82games.com and what some are saying here. Either way, people in general are too quick to call someone ignorant or a ***** if they have a difference of opinion. You provide good argument backed with some info... in this case you may even be able to prove him wrong but it still doesn't make him ignorant or a *****. That's all I'm saying.

For the record I wouldn't say Lebron isn't clutch based on either definition, but I also wouldn't say he's one of the most clutch players in the league either but I got into all of that earlier (in this thread I think). I also think it would be interesting to look at how LBJ has done in situations when his team was the favorite and it came down to someone stepping up to make a play.

I'll also add that just like anywhere else, clutch will always be subjective because you can't really gauge it without watching tape and then making determinations based on your own opinion. For example, I think Steve Nash is clutch even though he may rarely take the big shot. When a big play is needed, he makes the right decision 9 times out of 10, whether it's a shot or a pass. I question Lebron's decision making... and I guess it's necessary to point out that I mean relative to other elite players he'd be compared to in these discussions, not in general.

Problem is, I never called anyone igronant. I said it was "ignorance to believe James isn't clutch".

Second problem is: when you say "his team was favored", that's flawed logic. In the playoffs, his team should never be favored against those Boston and Orlando teams. Regular season success doesn't mean you'll have definite post season success. When you don't have a post presence or stable helpers [or a Robin], you shouldn't be favored against those stacked teams.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You saw Kobe quit in the playoffs though right? Yeah, he even quit to a higher degree than your boy LeBron.

Kobe might be the best "buzzer beater" player in the league, but his clutch stats are horrendous.

LeBron has hit a ton of jumpers in the "clutch" especially last year... I'm not sure how you could have missed them.

My later post has everything to do with what you're trying to tell people. He's been as clutch as any player in the league the past several years. Taking a cast that has no business doing damage in the playoffs, to the Finals and conference finals. He's put up mind boggling production when it has counted most, unfortunately for him, the team he's had just hasn't been up to par with stacked teams like LA and Boston and Orlando [in 2009].

Somehow I thought the Heat not even reaching the win total of last year's Cavs would FINALLY get people off the "he had no help" argument but I see that was an incorrect assumption.

[Pared]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I do know that Kobe has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter the likes we've never seen from LBJ and maybe never will.

What in the... are we just all of a sudden ignoring those years in Cleveland PRIOR to that last year?

WOW - I feel like I just walked in bizarro world reading that.

[jeebs9]

What in the... are we just all of a sudden ignoring those years in Cleveland PRIOR to that last year?

WOW - I feel like I just walked in bizarro world reading that.

That's how I feel. Lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Somehow I thought the Heat not even reaching the win total of last year's Cavs would FINALLY get people off the "he had no help" argument but I see that was an incorrect assumption.

If you thought the Heat would acheive as much regular season success as those Cavs' teams [whom had perfect regular season chemistry] as soon as this season, you must have been way too optimistic.

When you factor in key injuries to a Miami team already short on depth, and short on decent centers, you shouldn't expect them to match those win totals of Cleveland.

Seems like you were assumuing way too much.

Especially when you factor in that Miami is playing 4 on 7 or 8 most nights. When Wade/James are both drivers not shooters....

Their record now is still highly impressive.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Problem is, I never called anyone igronant. I said it was "ignorance to believe James isn't clutch".

Second problem is: when you say "his team was favored", that's flawed logic. In the playoffs, his team should never be favored against those Boston and Orlando teams. Regular season success doesn't mean you'll have definite post season success. When you don't have a post presence or stable helpers [or a Robin], you shouldn't be favored against those stacked teams.

1) No reason to tap dance around it. The comment was directed at a specific person. Ignorant and ignorance mean the same thing. There are no hard facts to define clutch therefore someone having a different opinion does not make them ignorant. It's a vague dig at people that don't agree and is thrown around all the time, usually coupled with "*****" just as you did in this case.

A better response would've been "it'd be ignorant to believe James hasn't hit many jump shots in clutch situations". You can point to stats to back the idea that James has hit jump shots in clutch situations, but you can't produce stats to say someone is clutch. The stats are fun for discussion but they can only support an opinion of an idea that's loosely defined. Either way, that's IF that's how you meant it. Pairing "ignorance" and "*****" in response to a disagreement is generally interpreted the same way around here though and I know you know that.

2) How can it be flawed logic when I just think it'd be interesting to see stats from those situations? I have no idea what the stats would look like and don't plan on using them to prove or disprove anything so what logic is there to be flawed? Not to mention, there are plenty of regular season situations that would be included in these stats so I don't even know what you're talking about. I think you're too wrapped up in an argument to understand my part of the discussion.