The LeBron James Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LBJ is not clutch and never has been. Weren't they also under dogs in most of those playoff series? Easy to go out there and show your *** when no pressure is on. I will def point to the Celtics game because no "leader" should ever quit on his team.

When he and his team were expected to do something, he's nowhere to be found.

Once again, not calling this guy ignorant.

But to say "he's never been clutch"? That's just not smart. There's no way you can argue that.

[TheShizNo1]

Once again, not calling this guy ignorant.

But to say "he's never been clutch"? That's just not smart. There's no way you can argue that.

You hurt my feelings when you called me ignorant.

[Xs and Os]

LMAO how long is this thread? It looks like the same two arguments have been going on for over a year. I'll throw my 2 cents in, but my perspective is a little different.

Lebron is still a young player so as he learns, coaches adjust with his progress. The two most dominant performances he's had were against Detroit and Orlando and that's getting further and further into the past. Currently we've got the weird quitting and a team in Miami that has trouble closing. There is some consistency to Lebron's problems, and some things that are out of his control.

Lebron is a rhythm jumpshooter. He doesn't have a reliable go to jumper like Melo, Kobe and Pierce. He also isn't a great FT shooter. These two things automatically make limit his options in the clutch. It doesn't render him ineffective, but it does separate him from those guys. The three aforementioned players have five dangerous weapons for a final possession:

Drive
Pullup
Get fouled
Pass
Decoy

Reliably, Lebron only has two--drive and pass. No one responds to him as a decoy and he isn't as dangerous in a shooting situation unless he's hot. Unlike wade he can't pump fake into a foul.

The other issue for Lebron is something he has to grow past. He has trouble letting other people be great. He's a great passer but that is not the be all end all of making your teammates better. You have to get then into the spots and give them the space to maximize their talent. This is why so many people focus on his lack of post game. There are three ways to be dangerous while your teammates are active: in the post, as a spot up shooter or via the pick and roll. He doesn't have the shooting ability to kill you from spotting up, but he can do the other two. The lack of PnR is on Spoelstra but the lack of post game is on him. From the post, you are still while your teammates are moving, giving them the inherent advantage against their defender.

Lebron's two weapons require that he be moving and his teammates be standing still. Since defenders are willing to bet on his jumper the double comes in a way that forces jumpshooting and rotations to those shooters.

Lost in all of this is that in an iso-based offense, the lack of options is tougher on the shooters. They are not in rhythm and the D is only making one shift. If you look at the big shots caused by Boston and LA, the defense is often completely broken down when the shooter spots up, and the shooter is usually in their favorite spot with time to breathe.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You hurt my feelings when you called me ignorant.

I didn't call you names, I don't do that, I do think opinions can be ignorant. I guess that doesn't even fly around here. I'll stick with "that's just not smart" or something of that nature next time.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Didnt pip call him some kind of name for saying it?

I don't know... my info is 3rd hand, lol.

Going back to "expected to win", let's talk about that.

The playoffs are a different animal from the regular season. So just because Cleveland won more regular season games than Boston or Orlando [the last teams to oust them the past 3 years] that means they should be favored?

Outside of when he quit last year [where he still produced at a pretty crazy rate], he has put up insane mind boggling numbers the past several years in the playoffs whether or not his team was favored in any quarter of a game.

So there's that.

What are you talking about? Who are you arguing/discussing this with? Who said any of the examples you listed are times when the Cavs were "expected to win"? What do "mind boggling numbers" in the playoffs have to do with "clutch" situations? Seriously, you're probably taking this the wrong way but I think you're too focused on arguing.

Once again, not calling this guy ignorant.

But to say "he's never been clutch"? That's just not smart. There's no way you can argue that.

To say "LBJ is not clutch and never has been." is an exaggeration (and an obvious one at that). However it'd only be an "ignorant" statement if his definition of clutch was the same as yours and it was meant literally. But honestly, this entire discussion is being taken too literally. I HATE when people throw around "ignorance" and "hate" in discussions like this and I was simply pointing out that it didn't apply. I have no idea how that touched a nerve. Maybe since I'm a mod you took it as more than that. So I'll summarize... the discussion from both sides has enough merit to NOT use the usual vague shots thrown around when someone doesn't agree with you. All I was saying.

[TheShizNo1]

I didn't call you names, I don't do that, I do think opinions can be ignorant. I guess that doesn't even fly around here. I'll stick with "that's just not smart" or something of that nature next time.

Dude I was Joking. No hard feelings at all.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LMAO how long is this thread? It looks like the same two arguments have been going on for over a year. I'll throw my 2 cents in, but my perspective is a little different.

Lebron is still a young player so as he learns, coaches adjust with his progress. The two most dominant performances he's had were against Detroit and Orlando and that's getting further and further into the past. Currently we've got the weird quitting and a team in Miami that has trouble closing. There is some consistency to Lebron's problems, and some things that are out of his control.

Lebron is a rhythm jumpshooter. He doesn't have a reliable go to jumper like Melo, Kobe and Pierce. He also isn't a great FT shooter. These two things automatically make limit his options in the clutch. It doesn't render him ineffective, but it does separate him from those guys. The three aforementioned players have five dangerous weapons for a final possession:

Drive
Pullup
Get fouled
Pass
Decoy

Reliably, Lebron only has two--drive and pass. No one responds to him as a decoy and he isn't as dangerous in a shooting situation unless he's hot. Unlike wade he can't pump fake into a foul.

The other issue for Lebron is something he has to grow past. He has trouble letting other people be great. He's a great passer but that is not the be all end all of making your teammates better. You have to get then into the spots and give them the space to maximize their talent. This is why so many people focus on his lack of post game. There are three ways to be dangerous while your teammates are active: in the post, as a spot up shooter or via the pick and roll. He doesn't have the shooting ability to kill you from spotting up, but he can do the other two. The lack of PnR is on Spoelstra but the lack of post game is on him. From the post, you are still while your teammates are moving, giving them the inherent advantage against their defender.

Lebron's two weapons require that he be moving and his teammates be standing still. Since defenders are willing to bet on his jumper the double comes in a way that forces jumpshooting and rotations to those shooters.

Lost in all of this is that in an iso-based offense, the lack of options is tougher on the shooters. They are not in rhythm and the D is only making one shift. If you look at the big shots caused by Boston and LA, the defense is often completely broken down when the shooter spots up, and the shooter is usually in their favorite spot with time to breathe.

very good post

I didn't call you names, I don't do that, I do think opinions can be ignorant. I guess that doesn't even fly around here. I'll stick with "that's just not smart" or something of that nature next time.

I'm only replying bc it has nothing to do with "flying around here". If it did, you and I wouldn't have gone back and forth for 10 post. I think he was even joking with that post. You're taking all this too personally. Not that deep my friend.

[jeebs9]

LMAO how long is this thread? It looks like the same two arguments have been going on for over a year. I'll throw my 2 cents in, but my perspective is a little different.

Lebron is still a young player so as he learns, coaches adjust with his progress. The two most dominant performances he's had were against Detroit and Orlando and that's getting further and further into the past. Currently we've got the weird quitting and a team in Miami that has trouble closing. There is some consistency to Lebron's problems, and some things that are out of his control.

Lebron is a rhythm jumpshooter. He doesn't have a reliable go to jumper like Melo, Kobe and Pierce. He also isn't a great FT shooter. These two things automatically make limit his options in the clutch. It doesn't render him ineffective, but it does separate him from those guys. The three aforementioned players have five dangerous weapons for a final possession:

Drive
Pullup
Get fouled
Pass
Decoy

Reliably, Lebron only has two--drive and pass. No one responds to him as a decoy and he isn't as dangerous in a shooting situation unless he's hot. Unlike wade he can't pump fake into a foul.

The other issue for Lebron is something he has to grow past. He has trouble letting other people be great. He's a great passer but that is not the be all end all of making your teammates better. You have to get then into the spots and give them the space to maximize their talent. This is why so many people focus on his lack of post game. There are three ways to be dangerous while your teammates are active: in the post, as a spot up shooter or via the pick and roll. He doesn't have the shooting ability to kill you from spotting up, but he can do the other two. The lack of PnR is on Spoelstra but the lack of post game is on him. From the post, you are still while your teammates are moving, giving them the inherent advantage against their defender.

Lebron's two weapons require that he be moving and his teammates be standing still. Since defenders are willing to bet on his jumper the double comes in a way that forces jumpshooting and rotations to those shooters.

Lost in all of this is that in an iso-based offense, the lack of options is tougher on the shooters. They are not in rhythm and the D is only making one shift. If you look at the big shots caused by Boston and LA, the defense is often completely broken down when the shooter spots up, and the shooter is usually in their favorite spot with time to breathe.

Great post!

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Dude I was Joking. No hard feelings at all.

I knew you were joking, hence my smiley face.

very good post



I'm only replying bc it has nothing to do with "flying around here". If it did, you and I wouldn't have gone back and forth for 10 post. I think he was even joking with that post. You're taking all this too personally. Not that deep my friend.

Wow bro, I knew the guy was joking.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Who said he had trash in Cleveland?

He has plenty of help with Miami. His bench is depleated and his team has suffered injuries to key players [Haslem and Miller].

Excuses? I was stating facts. But re-word stuff as you please.

You've stated that Cleveland was trash multiple times. Don't try to squirm your way around it either.

The simple fact is that the Cavaliers fit LeBron like a glove. He would have had a better shot of winning a title in Cleveland than he would in Miami this year. The only question is if Miami can ever figure it out. Jury is still out.

[SidVish]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Kick' em when they are down lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I can't say that I really blame them. I just watched "The Celebration" again and found it very amusing. They were even cockier than I remember. They thought they would come out year one and tear the league apart.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FmwJipHdqpA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'm not going to front. I've never seen that video.


Seeing it now... They do deserves what they get.

edit: Who idea was that? I mean that is as bad as the decision lol

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You've stated that Cleveland was trash multiple times. Don't try to squirm your way around it either.

The simple fact is that the Cavaliers fit LeBron like a glove. He would have had a better shot of winning a title in Cleveland than he would in Miami this year. The only question is if Miami can ever figure it out. Jury is still out.

Oh OSU, you know my argument as well as anyone on the site.

Please quote me where I said James had trash.

For his last two years, he had decent help, but not to par with the other powers [LA/Boston/Orlando/hell even Atlanta]. I've stated that countless times in different threads.

Before that, he's had trash. I've stated that countless times in different threads.

There's no squirming, wiggling, manuevring going on on my end at all. Once again find quotes and get back to me.

[SidVish]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'm not going to front. I've never seen that video.


Seeing it now... They do deserves what they get.

edit: Who idea was that? I mean that is as bad as the decision lol

Oh well no wonder you don't get the "dislike" for Miami.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Oh OSU, you know my argument as well as anyone on the site.

Please quote me where I said James had trash.

For his last two years, he had decent help, but not to par with the other powers [LA/Boston/Orlando/hell even Atlanta]. I've stated that countless times in different threads.

Before that, he's had trash. I've stated that countless times in different threads.

There's no squirming, wiggling, manuevring going on on my end at all. Once again find quotes and get back to me.

Atlanta? Really?

His supporting cast was better than decent. Just because it's not up their with LA/Boston/Orlando doesn't make them...well, whatever you are calling them *trash is semantics, but you've never given them the respect they deserved.*

And his supporting cast in Miami is not better than LA/Boston/Orlando.

So...there you go.