Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

The notion that Cleveland "raised" Lebron or was his "mother" is absurd.

He didn't abandon his mother; he left an NBA team that was an hour from his hometown to get a better chance at winning a chip. Reading any more into it than that is crazy.

You couldn't be more wrong on this. This is the engine that drives the narrative cycle. It is obvious. This is how news is run in America. To not see it is to be either willfully ignorant or shockingly naive. Whether or not you agree with that narrative is subjective, but is more than obvious that it's the narrative the sporting news is writing with this Lebron story. Gilbert's letter just added icing to the cake. For his part, Gilbert was also hoping to capitalize on these feelings.

This is the last I'll say on the subject, because I honestly don't believe that you can't see it. I think you're trying to hold on to your argument, and that's been your history so I expect that.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

LOL @ the only reason people are mad is because Lebron didn't go to their team. People STILL use that line even after a week?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

The Cavs may be the hometown team of Akron, but Cleveland clearly wasn't important to Lebron. He identified with Akron which is I believe about an hour away from Cleveland and told anyone who would ask him that he was from Akron.

The notion that Cleveland "raised" Lebron or was his "mother" is absurd.

He didn't abandon his mother; he left an NBA team that was an hour from his hometown to get a better chance at winning a chip. Reading any more into it than that is crazy.

So if you don't live in the city of your sports team you have zero connection to that team. Duly noted, thanks for the lesson in sports fandom. Orlando you're on notice, no Marlins loving out of you. New York, don't wanna catch anybody claiming love of the Jets and/or Giants. Boston, I'd better not see any Patriots gear around town.

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

You know damn well what I mean.

Cleveland has been dying for half a century and few people outside of Ohio has done much to help it. You aren't convincing me that people wanted Lebron to stay in Cleveland because they care about the people of Cleveland.

People are mad at Lebron because their city didn't get him and the city that did will have a dynasty. Cleveland people fall into the first group.

I've been pretty vocal in all of this and neither of these apply to me.

From "The Decision" Lebron IMO doesn't seem to be concerned with his "legacy" because if he did he would not made the BS excuse that he chose miami because he wanted to win. When you just want to win that means your living in the now and making decisions for the now. But when u actually care about having a legacy you would make decision for now that will reflect well in the future. All this just shows how immature Lebron is on decision making and that he didn't get the right kind of wisdom while making this decision. At the same time he doesn't owe Cleveland anything for leaving. I mean being upset is understandable but burning his jersy is just trifling and classless.

True, but the example at the end is far off. If I buy a jersey I can do whatever I want with it. It doesn't even effect LBJ or the NBA bc the money has already been spent. They can burn whatever they want. Crying and saying things like "this is the worse thing that's ever happened to me" (someone actually said that) is a bit much but burning anything short of the American flag really isn't a big deal.

I'm onboard with the rest of your post.

[Cebby]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

So if you don't live in the city of your sports team you have zero connection to that team.

He's a Yankees and Cowboys fan. I'd bet money that he grew up a Bulls or Lakers fan.

He clearly didn't have the deep connection with Cleveland that Cleveland fans want him to have as I remember them *****ing about the Yankees and Cowboys thing all the time.

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

He's a Yankees and Cowboys fan. I'd bet money that he grew up a Bulls or Lakers fan.

He clearly didn't have the deep connection with Cleveland that Cleveland fans want him to have as I remember them *****ing about the Yankees and Cowboys thing all the time.

He was a bulls fan... he's definitely a front runner. But since he was about 12 he was a celebrity in Cleveland. After getting into the NBA I'm sure he's gotten the star treatment all over the USA, if not the world, but still not to the extent that it happened in Cleveland.

Much like Gilbert, I blame the individuals for feeling the relationship went both ways and that he was anything more than connected to them by doing a good job on the basketball court. But the fact that the relationship existed at all means that it's understandable that they're upset, as well as others sympathizing with them. It's also not a stretch to think James should've considered that when deciding HOW he was going to leave. Simple answer is "He doesn't owe them anything" and the simple response is "So he can live with the backlash and consequences of ignoring it."

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

He's a Yankees and Cowboys fan. I'd bet money that he grew up a Bulls or Lakers fan.

He clearly didn't have the deep connection with Cleveland that Cleveland fans want him to have as I remember them *****ing about the Yankees and Cowboys thing all the time.

You remember wrong, Cleveland didn't say a word about the Yankees and Cowboys thing, ESPN and every other media outlet wouldn't shut the hell up about it though. Cleveland walked on eggshells about LeBron and supported him through all the **** no matter what. Furthermore to your other post about people not caring about Cleveland, I'm pretty sure that most people said if they're team couldn't get LeBron they'd love to see him go back to Cleveland cause it was the better story over their teams anyway. People care about Cleveland because of what that city has been through sportswise. It's no different than the Cubs being 'The Lovable Losers' and having fans all over the country. People like underdogs and people like getting seeing the little guys do something. No one gave a damn about George Mason a few years ago or Butler this year but it sure would have been nice to see happy endings for those guys. If LeBron quietly leaves Cleveland, people sympathize for them and feel a little bad, but since he decided to completely crush them on national tv with what everyone is finding out was something he planned from the start, you get the backlash that this thing has gotten.

[Jukeman]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I've been pretty vocal in all of this and neither of these apply to me.



True, but the example at the end is far off. If I buy a jersey I can do whatever I want with it. It doesn't even effect LBJ or the NBA bc the money has already been spent. They can burn whatever they want. Crying and saying things like "this is the worse thing that's ever happened to me" (someone actually said that) is a bit much but burning anything short of the American flag really isn't a big deal.

I'm onboard with the rest of your post.

Since we are talking about symbolic meanings(which btw cleveland wasnt the "mother" more like the step parent who tries to force their way into the child's life)

Cleveland fans burning the jersey of LBJ is not just a jersey burning (or the person's property), it is a representation of the LeBron James and his values.

So while its true that you can burn anything you own (even the American Flag)

I wouldnt say it not a big deal...Whether if LBJ or the NBA care, its up to them to decide on that one lol

Example, I dont think the NBA would like to see its logo being burned on youtube...

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Since we are talking about symbolic meanings(which btw cleveland wasnt the "mother" more like the step parent who tries to force their way into the child's life)

Cleveland fans burning the jersey of LBJ is not just a jersey burning (or the person's property), it is a representation of the LeBron James and his values.

So while its true that you can burn anything you own (even the American Flag)

I wouldnt say it not a big deal...Whether if LBJ or the NBA care, its up to them to decide on that one lol

Example, I dont think the NBA would like to see its logo being burned on youtube...

I agree with you. The whole point of it is to make a statement... I just don't think the action is all that outrageous. If they were throwing diamond crusted jewelry off a cliff or using a knife to carve their Lebron tattoos off, then I'd say it's too much. If they want to burn their $2-300 jersey (most were probably knock offs), more power to them.

There have definitely been some people that have gone overboard. I just don't think the jersey burners are in that group. Hell, some will sacrifice a jersey just to say they were a part of something.

[Cebby]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Much like Gilbert, I blame the individuals for feeling the relationship went both ways and that he was anything more than connected to them by doing a good job on the basketball court. But the fact that the relationship existed at all means that it's understandable that they're upset, as well as others sympathizing with them. It's also not a stretch to think James should've considered that when deciding HOW he was going to leave. Simple answer is "He doesn't owe them anything" and the simple response is "So he can live with the backlash and consequences of ignoring it."

That's more or less what I was saying.

Saying that Cleveland "raised" or was a "mother" of Lebron is absurd. Lebron clearly didn't feel particularly attached to the city and any feeling of a relationship was serious projecting by Clevelanders. Sure, he may be hated in his home state, but why would he care? It's not like his friends will care when they're partying at Mansion and attending games with the hottest ticket in the US.

If he's going to make stupid generalizations, I'm going to make the obvious observation.

Back to when I said this, I should make it a little more clear.

The three most recent people I've argued with in this thread are fans of the Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, and Baltimore Ravens.

I find it nearly impossible to believe that any of them are mad at Lebron for what he did to Cleveland considering that the first two's teams were trying to tear Lebron from Cleveland and the other one took the most beloved team in Cleveland and won a Super Bowl with them shortly after.

[brahmagoul]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I agree with you. The whole point of it is to make a statement... I just don't think the action is all that outrageous. If they were throwing diamond crusted jewelry off a cliff or using a knife to carve their Lebron tattoos off, then I'd say it's too much. If they want to burn their $2-300 jersey (most were probably knock offs), more power to them.

There have definitely been some people that have gone overboard. I just don't think the jersey burners are in that group. Hell, some will sacrifice a jersey just to say they were a part of something.

Your avatar is a reminder of why Cleveland fans have a right to be so bitter. Losing LeBron and the Browns -- has a city lost more in the sports world?

I'd rather have LeBron in Cleveland the Browns (the old ones or new ones), but that's just me. As it was said on Outside the Lines today, there's a question of the fan-player relationship and what does that player "owe" them? He doesn't owe them anything, but at the same time he should ... he should feel something.

Let's see how the Miami fans treat LeBron if he has the bum elbow or anything. I guarantee you no city would have treated him better through the positives and negatives. What about the jersey burning? It's freedom of expression. Who says to an outgoing superstar in his prime, "good luck, thanks for dissing us."

[Cebby]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Your avatar is a reminder of why Cleveland fans have a right to be so bitter. Losing LeBron and the Browns -- has a city lost more in the sports world?

Baltimore and it isn't even close.

Bullets, Colts, Babe Ruth, and the Yankees

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I wouldn't even count the Bullets considering they moved just 20-30 minutes down 95 and there really wasn't that much outrage from people in Baltimore when they left either.

[The15thunter]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I wouldn't even count the Bullets considering they moved just 20-30 minutes down 95 and there really wasn't that much outrage from people in Baltimore when they left either.

people are still mad about the colts, though.

[brahmagoul]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

The Colts are the only real argument for Baltimore, IMO.

As for the who's won a chip on his own, one thing Wade said that really grinds my gears: he talked about how Michael and Magic didn't win it on their own.

They also didn't get a bunch of help via free agency or trades.

The Lakers were built through the draft. They had Kareem and then added Magic and Worthy. All of these "great" teams built their dynasty through the draft and trades. They didn't blow everything up to sign LeBron and Bosh.

Also, LeBron, Wade and Bosh joining forces is more like Magic, Bird and Sampson joining up, or something along those lines.

Great championship teams had more than one all-time great, but they didn't have two of the top-five players in the league, either.