Carmelo Anthony Traded To New York

[wwharton]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

First off, concerning Melo, I have no clue as to why he would want to leave so bad. He has a talented team around him, with some movable parts, and a willing front office.

As for your post, when we talk about the all-time greats: Magic, Isaiah, Larry, West, MJ, Stockton, Malone, etc. etc. who have stayed primarily with one team, I guess you along with many others conveniently ignore the fact that they were all surrounded by HOF talent.

I laugh every time I hear posts like yours.

"OMG this new age is so wack, they would have never done that in the past" blah blah blah blah blah blah

If you want to win championships, you can't just do it on your own. Simple fact.

Things might be different if LeBron, CP3 of any of these guys were gifted another superstar via free agency/draft/trade. Not every superstar is gifted a Pau Gasol.

I don't necessarily agree with one side of the argument or another but lets not act like Gasol is a HOFer... or ignore the fact that players around Gasol's level that end up in the Hall have rings to thank for that. What's the point? Which came first, the chicken or the egg... the HOF talent or the ring? There are many examples of legit HOF talent in your example, but there are also many of good players that became HOFers or talked about like HOFers bc of the team they played on. One of my current pet peeves is the talk of Ray Allen as a HOFer which wasn't even a thought before being part of the "Big 3". And I love Jesus Shuttleworth... but he's not a HOFer.

So, with all of that said, AI was sent to Denver to play along side Melo. Billups was sent there... Martin. They've got young talent. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they have enough to get over the hump at the moment but it's not like they haven't tried to find that next piece that would get them a ring and have players considered HOFers afterwards. Personally, I think Melo's main reason for wanting out doesn't have as much to do with basketball as we think.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Hall of Fame or not, the point is most of the players we view as "the greatest to play the game" had a lot of help. All-Stars, HOFer's, etc. etc.

Bottom line as much as it'd be cool for players to endure and try to make their original team champions, it's going to be very difficult if their front offices cannot get them adequate support i.e. Cleveland and NO's.

To ask "what ever happened to players staying with their original teams" is pretty short-sighted.

[JBH3]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Honestly, in so many words, I think that is part of the issue. I guess ironically that's the part of the issue I have the LEAST amount of a problem with. An argument can be made that he should play out his contract if those are his only concerns but I don't think that's a big deal really. But he clearly wants to be in the NYC area as well as his new wife. I think that plays a bigger roll than you think. Now if he ends up in Houston we can throw that out the window.

See...I see a hypothetical need to relocate due to "family happiness" as being trivial. He can afford the best life possible. If they just don't like the mountains then wait out the contract...

What happened to players winning in their original teams? I for one am kinda sick of players "wanting to win" and signing with teams who end up always being good. There needs to be a hard cap. Lets see how much less anybody really would take to be on a superstar squad

If you're the same age as me (29), I would ask what do YOU think you really know about that era of basketball. Honestly, I didn't start learning about the business side of basketball until it was readily available in sports games. Once a salary cap was introduced into Madden was roughly the time I started learning, understanding, or even caring about the business side of sports.

What am I getting at?

Well...in the 80's and even early to mid 90's, if you were a youth growing up like I was you never heard about contract talk. You never followed it, and it was "adult"...if you did follow it you were probably a nerd or in the 1% of adolescence that actual cared.

Its only today that we know so much more about players deals, contract negotiations, etc. because we get this information widely reported by media outlets. Its in games. Its everywhere. 20 years ago not so much.

Shoot...I just found out that Larry Bird held up his extension to see if the Celtics could get the rights to Len Bias because that team was a contender and Bird was only willing to sign w/ the C's if they could get Bias. Only...we know what happened there....

So I ask...what do you actually know about MJ, Isiah, Magic, and others...what facts do you actually have that they wouldn't have left to seek a better place to win?

[ffaacc03]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

First off, concerning Melo, I have no clue as to why he would want to leave so bad. He has a talented team around him, with some movable parts, and a willing front office.

As for your post, when we talk about the all-time greats: Magic, Isaiah, Larry, West, MJ, Stockton, Malone, etc. etc. who have stayed primarily with one team, I guess you along with many others conveniently ignore the fact that they were all surrounded by HOF talent.

I laugh every time I hear posts like yours.

"OMG this new age is so wack, they would have never done that in the past" blah blah blah blah blah blah

If you want to win championships, you can't just do it on your own. Simple fact.

Things might be different if LeBron, CP3 of any of these guys were gifted another superstar via free agency/draft/trade. Not every superstar is gifted a Pau Gasol.

Another issue easylly overlooked its how FA has affected things ... now, every once in a while players have the power and right to chose were they want to build or continue their legacys ... then again, there are some that dont seem to have the commitment nor the integrity to fullfill the entirely of their agreed current contracts ... we both seem to agree that the Kobe case was the exception to the rule of parting ways with demanding trade players, wether they are superstars or not.

[Rocky]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Denver's front office seems competent, so it's not like a KG situation here. Whatever happened to patience, like this man (the best basketball player of the post Jordan era):

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Denver's front office seems competent, so it's not like a KG situation here. Whatever happened to patience, like this man (the best basketball player of the post Jordan era):

Yeah like I said, Melo hasn't exactly had a rough life in Denver.

But LOL at you posting Duncan. He's had possibly the best situation other than Kobe/Shaq of this generation.

SA probably #1 or #2 front offices in the past 20 years.

[Rocky]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Yeah like I said, Melo hasn't exactly had a rough life in Denver.

But LOL at you posting Duncan. He's had possibly the best situation other than Kobe/Shaq of this generation.

SA probably #1 or #2 front offices in the past 20 years.

I don't know about that one. The Spurs supporting cast was getting widely criticized for not being able to match Shaq's or even having the depth of the Kings or Mavs during the Lakers 3-Peat. Remember the Orlando superteam he was supposed to form? Duncan did have a sense of loyalty and patience though. Who would've EVER foreseen that Parker and Ginobli would become the players they were (although I would argue that they are not superstars either)?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Nash, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq have all had the most help this generation.

Getting away from the topic, I apologize.

[JBH3]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Denver's front office seems competent, so it's not like a KG situation here. Whatever happened to patience, like this man (the best basketball player of the post Jordan era):

I don't think we can really speak on w/ any accuracy...no matter how much we think we know players...how they would treat being in the same situation.

For me now...when it was time to get out of the Marine Corps, and the Corps offered me no reason to re-enlist (no bonus, no duty-station preference due to wartime requirements) I said see-ya later.

My loyalty to the Corps was being the best Marine I could be day in day out. Only loyalty which Melo needs to show is play his hardest day in day out until he either hits free agency, or gets dealt. He's done that already w/ this team, and its lead to only a WCF bid and sub-sequent exit.

If he loafs around this year, being part of the Nuggets squad which he doesn't want to be a part of, then I'll reserve judgement for that circumstance...but having not played a game for Denver yet this year...he owes them nothing. Unless we want to question Melo's competitiveness to-date?

[Rocky]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Nash, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq have all had the most help this generation.

Getting away from the topic, I apologize.

I will say this on that matter and then I'm done, but it's funny that you note 3 of the top 5 players of this generation by any standard and 4 of probaly the top 10. So again, the most help out of who....each other? The only superstar that really had an impossible situation with his original team was Garnett and maybe McGrady on Orlando (but that was barring Hill's injury). I think Lebron's tenure was still too short to accurately judged the situation.

There are enough pieces and potential pieces in Denver to win is what I'm saying. wwharton is likely right on the money in that they're a variety of factors probaly at play here.

[wwharton]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Hall of Fame or not, the point is most of the players we view as "the greatest to play the game" had a lot of help. All-Stars, HOFer's, etc. etc.

Bottom line as much as it'd be cool for players to endure and try to make their original team champions, it's going to be very difficult if their front offices cannot get them adequate support i.e. Cleveland and NO's.

To ask "what ever happened to players staying with their original teams" is pretty short-sighted.

What's adequate support? We can bump our heads all day on Cleveland but Denver? Really? They've got talent, have had talent and have proven they'll go out and bring in talent. They've got All Stars, and if a Billups, Melo, supporting cast could win a couple of rings then they'd have HOFers too. Melo has no right crying the "support" argument, but again, I don't think that's what this is about.

See...I see a hypothetical need to relocate due to "family happiness" as being trivial. He can afford the best life possible. If they just don't like the mountains then wait out the contract...

That's real life though. I will agree that I'd rather he wait out the contract if that's the case but you can look at the iron striking hottest (NYC and Nets ready to make moves forward), money (putting his team on edge may help get more), not leaving Denver high and dry (I doubt it's this one but this gives them time to formulate a plan that doesn't destroy them as much as if he kept it hush hush and just bounced on them like LBJ did), or his wife (they both love the NYC area and are from the East Coast... he just got married and is ready to set up his new life).

I don't know about that one. The Spurs supporting cast was getting widely criticized for not being able to match Shaq's or even having the depth of the Kings or Mavs during the Lakers 3-Peat. Remember the Orlando superteam he was supposed to form? Duncan did have a sense of loyalty and patience though. Who would've EVER foreseen that Parker and Ginobli would become the players they were (although I would argue that they are not superstars either)?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If the Spurs never won with Ginobli and Parker they wouldn't be looked at much differently than most of Denver's players around Melo... if they aren't still looked at on their level since Chauncey has some jewelry himself.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

First off, concerning Melo, I have no clue as to why he would want to leave so bad. He has a talented team around him, with some movable parts, and a willing front office.

Yeah like I said, Melo hasn't exactly had a rough life in Denver.

What's adequate support? We can bump our heads all day on Cleveland but Denver? Really? They've got talent, have had talent and have proven they'll go out and bring in talent. They've got All Stars, and if a Billups, Melo, supporting cast could win a couple of rings then they'd have HOFers too. Melo has no right crying the "support" argument, but again, I don't think that's what this is about.

Come on now.

For the third time, I was not referring to Carmelo in my initial reply to what dossier had to say.

I was talking more about the general topic of players who leave their original team.

[dossier]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Hall of Fame or not, the point is most of the players we view as "the greatest to play the game" had a lot of help. All-Stars, HOFer's, etc. etc.

Bottom line as much as it'd be cool for players to endure and try to make their original team champions, it's going to be very difficult if their front offices cannot get them adequate support i.e. Cleveland and NO's.

To ask "what ever happened to players staying with their original teams" is pretty short-sighted.

Cebby said it perfectly.

I don't disagree in the slightest, but most players don't even wait for the chance to get another great player. Bron is what, 24 and carmello 26. these guys are young players.

Look at what happened with Pierce, or Kobe(Gasol wasn't a HOFer til he joined the lakers).

Besides the legacy thing is to a degree moot. we still remeber the ewings and the stocktons, and they never won a championship. Great players will be remembered for being great.

[Cebby]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

I don't know about that one. The Spurs supporting cast was getting widely criticized for not being able to match Shaq's or even having the depth of the Kings or Mavs during the Lakers 3-Peat. Remember the Orlando superteam he was supposed to form? Duncan did have a sense of loyalty and patience though. Who would've EVER foreseen that Parker and Ginobli would become the players they were (although I would argue that they are not superstars either)?

In 2003 I can buy that the Spurs lacked a solid supporting cast, but Duncan's supporting casts in 99, 2005, and 2007 were fantastic given the quality of the other teams in the league.

They aren't a list of amazing players in their primes, but they also weren't facing any teams that were all that impressive either. If you took those teams and put them in 2010 against the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, and maybe Orlando I could see arguments that the Spurs were shorthanded but they played some pretty mediocre teams and none of them had a big man who could even pretend to match up with Duncan.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Carmelo Anthony Saga

Everytime I come back to this thread, I keep thinking there's something new regarding this.

Ya'll don't take the "Oh, well so and so didn't have help either" junk somewhere else man lol.

FYI, the 2010 Heat haven't played a game either and also the 03 Spurs had a nice squad out there as well.