who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

[mvspree8]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Yeah, I don't think this is even close. It's Dirk.

Just look at what Pau "achieved" before he was gift-wrapped to the Lakers, where he continues to see half a dozen wide open looks 5 feet from the basket every night.

Meanwhile, I believe the only player to win more games over the past 10 years has been Tim Duncan.

[jeebs9]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I can't believe Dirk is taking a back seat to Gasol all of a sudden. If the shoes were reverse... I just don't see Gasol being able to bring Dallas anywhere (outside of the 8th spot or first round exit). But I do still see Lakers winning championships (if Dirk was on that team). If your worried that Dirk has been bounced out of the first round recently.... I could only imagine Gasol doing worst... My story

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Yeah, I don't think this is even close. It's Dirk.

Just look at what Pau "achieved" before he was gift-wrapped to the Lakers, where he continues to see half a dozen wide open looks 5 feet from the basket every night.

Meanwhile, I believe the only player to win more games over the past 10 years has been Tim Duncan.

Didn't he turn the Grizz from like a 20 win team to a 50+ win team and get them their first ever playoff appearance?

[jeebs9]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Didn't he turn the Grizz from like a 20 win team to a 50+ win team and get them their first ever playoff appearance?

But I think his point was that he never really took them outside of what you just explained above. This is why I've always thought of Gasol in the same kind of mold or situation as Chris Bosh was when he was in Toronto. The Grizzles always made the playoffs in the 8th seed. They never really improved beyond that. When I think that Dirk won MVP and was knocked out in the first round (after having the best record in the league). I think it's better than not improving your team (seed wise)... Again that's my opinion.

[slimm44]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I think Dirk is still a Batman, but he's not quite as efficient as he was about 5 years ago. The thing with Dirk is that his career, barring serious injury, should be able to last for several more years because he doesn't rely on freakish athleticism to get his.

However, aside from Duncan's Spurs and the Pistons from several years ago, the team that won the finals over the last 15 years had the 2 best players on their team, not just one of them. These tandems have won the chip: Shaq and Kobe, Shaq and Gasol, Shaq and Wade, Jordan and Pippen. They have combined to win 60% of the time in the past 15 years (9 out of 15). The Celtics Big three may also fit here because they played so well together and a combo of Allen/Pierce/Garnett at the end of their primes with Rondo was phenomenal.

Gasol is not a Batman, but he's the perfect Robin to Kobe. When they are on top of their games and Kobe isn't playing overly selfish, it's incredibly difficult to find a tandem that's better than they are. This year, the Spurs with Duncan and a combo of Manu/Parker and the Heat with LBJ and Wade are the only teams I can think of that even has a shot at standing toe to toe with the Lakers' Dynamic Duo, but I may be missing someone.

Who's Dirk's sidekick? Terry? Marion? Kidd? They're good teammates, but not of them are as good as either player in any of the other duos.

[Scott812313]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I guess some of you dont remember the Dallas Mavericks franchise before Dirk arrived

I do remember the 90s Mavs. I had season tickets. They were probably the worst franchise in pro sports.

Dirk has been the one constant and the main key in turning the franchise from doormats into a perennial playoff team in a loaded western conference. I guess a "robin" took the franchise to their first and only finals appearance (sweeping Pau's squad that postseason). He would have won the finals if not for a bail out whistle ftw with 1.8 seconds left in game 5...but I digress

You must forget the bail out whistle Dirk got in game 7 of the WCF against the Spurs.....

[ZB9]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

You must forget the bail out whistle Dirk got in game 7 of the WCF against the Spurs.....

what? you mean this? (btw, it was the semi finals, they played the Suns in the WCF)



1. it was an "and 1"

2. there were 30 seconds left (and it was for the tie)

3. It was a foul

you must not know what "bail out whistle" entails. Going 1 on 4 out of control and getting a whistle with 1.8 seconds left from a ref who is 20 feet behind the play is a "bail out"

[Wang Chung]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

For most teams, I'd rather have Dirk. No question.

[chance]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

All I know is he's been bounced out of the first round a ton in recent years.

Leads me to believe he's

A. Not a Batman

and/or

B. His skill set is not conducive to winning a title unless he has a more alpha player/real post presence [AKA a player like Gasol] or a guy like Wade/LBJ/Kobe

The guy is clearly a more dynamic player than Gasol, it's no contest, no discussion.

Still give me the guy who will be able to guard centers, rebound against centers and also score from the post/mid-range. Not to mention Gasol could be the smartest big man not named Tim Duncan.

There's no question he deserves some discussion as a Batman considering what he's done with Dallas throughout his career. But judging his entire career I just feel like I can't call him a true Batman, and that he isn't a player that will be able to consistently get to the Finals as your Batman.

How many times has he had a true Robin???

[Wang Chung]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

All I know is he's been bounced out of the first round a ton in recent years.

Leads me to believe he's

A. Not a Batman

and/or

B. His skill set is not conducive to winning a title unless he has a more alpha player/real post presence [AKA a player like Gasol] or a guy like Wade/LBJ/Kobe

The guy is clearly a more dynamic player than Gasol, it's no contest, no discussion.

Still give me the guy who will be able to guard centers, rebound against centers and also score from the post/mid-range. Not to mention Gasol could be the smartest big man not named Tim Duncan.

There's no question he deserves some discussion as a Batman considering what he's done with Dallas throughout his career. But judging his entire career I just feel like I can't call him a true Batman, and that he isn't a player that will be able to consistently get to the Finals as your Batman.

Staying relevant to the topic, Gasol's team has never been to the finals with Gasol as a Batman. People often forget what Dirk did against the Spurs en route to making the NBA finals. When you go back and look at that, its the defninition of being a Batman. The fact that he didn't play as well against the Heat, doesn't mean the series against the Spurs didn't happen.

[parker987]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

I would rather have Dirk, he is one of the best big man shooters of all time, he is also tall, so his shot is hard to defend

[The15thunter]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

i don't think anyone is questioning that dirk is a better basketball player, both now and for his career, than gasol.

however, most people's point is that a jump shooting top 5 contemporary big man is less valuable than a top 5 post-oriented big man.

so, even if dirk is a better player, he presents less value given the way in which he is most effective. since jump shooting big men do not win championships, most of us are saying we would rather have pau as the center piece of complentary part of a team seeking a championship.

[jeebs9]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

^^I totally understand that^^

But in my opinion Dirk is not just some "jump shooting big men". He is not Okur, Murphy, David West or any other spot up big men in the league. Dirk can shoot 50% from the field and not take a shot in the paint.

Also another problem I have with your statement "jump shooting big don't win championships". That's pretty wrong or subjective.

The only reason I see some people picking Gasol over Dirk now. Is because he recently has won championships with the Lakers. Ask this question 3-5 years ago. And no one would dare think Gasol is better.

[The15thunter]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

right, i'm not trying to downplay dirk's greatness at all. he's an all-time great, and easily the best shooting 6'10" and up player ever.

since you disagree, what jump shooting big men have been the (offensive) center piece of a championship winning team?

as for your statement about 3-5 years ago, that's sort of a moot point. 3-5 years ago, dirk was at the apex of his game athletically and in terms of production. pau has reached his peak athletically (grown tougher and more assertive) and production-wise now.

[Brandon13]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

since you disagree, what jump shooting big men have been the (offensive) center piece of a championship winning team?

Larry Bird?