who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

[AlexBrady]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Nowitzki has evolved into a truly great offensive player. Really, his only flaws are his defense and a tendency to play passively against the good teams in the league in the 2nd half.

Gasol is an incredible offensive player, a terrific passer, and his footwork is top notch. He has a greater understanding of the game than Nowitzki does. Defensively, he isn't a stalwart but his length and quickness give teams more issues than Nowitzki's defense does.
I give Gasol the slight edge due to his greater area of influence on a ballgame. Both are phenomenal players though.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Probably take Dirk...And thats coming from a defensive mind guy. I usually would pick Pau asap. But how many players can stop or even guard Dirk? He's a SF in a 7' body. With the jumper of a Steve Nash. Yes he doesn't rebound like a 7 footer should. But man that offensive game can't be denyed...lol

No it can't...esp not over what minimal difference there is between Dirk/Gasol in the defensive/toughness arena.

Come on, he's been stopped. By PG's/SG's nonetheless. DWest punked the crap out of him.

DWest is a good defender who could punk a decent amount of offensive-minded players. Is he not? Dude just doesn't focus.

Dirk is probably a "better" player than Pau, so yeap the stats are going to show that. Rebounding and defense is why I would rather have Pau than Dirk, which is what the topic is asking.

Which is what I'm saying...does what slightly more production Gasol gives you in rebounding/defense outweigh what Dirk can bring to the table?

Your claiming that Gasol's defense is so much better than Dirks, but the side of the glass where Gasol accels over Dirk is offensive rebounding; which is mostly because he plays closer to the hoop and is not the #1 scoring option.

Gasol's defensive rebound rate is only marginally better than Dirk's (based on 2009-10), Dirk's AST/TO is better, and contributes to more wins than Gasol.

Just refer to all of my posts because my piece has been said on this topic.
If I have 1 superstar player and I had to pair him with either Dirk or Pau-- you know who I'm rolling with, and it has nothing to do with favortism

All your posts go in circles.

Last reiterated point: playoff basketball is inside presence/defense. I'm not questioning if Dirk has raised his level of play and production during the post season. It's the fact that Pau can go inside. That was the point

I understand that. You're not "educating" me on anything. I'm saying that Gasol's inside presence/defense does not surpass all of what Dirk brings to the table.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Nowitzki has evolved into a truly great offensive player. Really, his only flaws are his defense and a tendency to play passively against the good teams in the league in the 2nd half.

Gasol is an incredible offensive player, a terrific passer, and his footwork is top notch. He has a greater understanding of the game than Nowitzki does. Defensively, he isn't a stalwart but his length and quickness give teams more issues than Nowitzki's defense does.

I give Gasol the slight edge due to his greater area of influence on a ballgame. Both are phenomenal players though.

Unfortunately Gasol's "Greater area of influence" is not justified. If so he would accel in PER or Estimated Wins, which he does not. So your basis is subjective to what you "think" without any true merit based on statistical outcomes.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

How am I going in circles? It really seems like you're not grasping any of what I'm saying.

Also I'm not trying to "educate you", so get out of here with that

Do I need to add an IMO?

IMO playoff basketball comes down to defense and rebounding followed by the ability to throw the ball into a post presence offensively. So what Pau is able to do with scoring the basketball inside as well as creating for others by being able to post up does surpass what Dirk can do from the perimeter. That is as simple as I can put it, other than my previous way of saying give me Pau to pair with another superstar.

And that is before we even discuss defense and post defense.

[AlexBrady]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Unfortunately Gasol's "Greater area of influence" is not justified. If so he would accel in PER or Estimated Wins, which he does not. So your basis is subjective to what you "think" without any true merit based on statistical outcomes.

Statistical analysis still hasn't reached the point where it can measure acts on the basketball court such as: deflections, solid screens, missed rotations, botched box outs, saved balls, scores off ball cuts, ect.
Nowitzki is a deadeye shooter and a dominant scorer so of course he will hold the edge in statistical calculations which puts undue emphasis on offense and scoring percentages.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Statistical analysis still hasn't reached the point where it can measure acts on the basketball court such as: deflections, solid screens, missed rotations, botched box outs, saved balls, scores off ball cuts, ect. Nowitzki is a deadeye shooter and a dominant scorer so of course he will hold the edge in statistical calculations which puts undo emphasis on offense and scoring percentages.

Yea...I know there IS a lack of sabermetrics that are available to baseball, and not available to basketball. Still there are some good valuation tools that can be used, most of which point in Dirk's favor, and here's the kicker...Any defensive lapse on Dirk's part can be made up w/ the stroke of a made FG or 3pt. He doesn't completely kill you on defense, and he's as lights out as they come on offense.

[TMagic]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Yea...I know there IS a lack of sabermetrics that are available to baseball, but not so much for basketball. Still there are some good valuation tools that can be used, most of which point in Dirk's favor, and here's the kicker...Any defensive lapse on Dirk's part can be made up w/ the stroke of a made FG or 3pt. He doesn't completely kill you on defense, and he's as lights out as they come on offense.

But I don't think Ex is saying Gasol is a better player than Dirk.

I feel the same way he does, I believe. If I have another star player on the wing, I'm taking Pau. If I don't have that, then Dirk is the better option in that situation.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

But I don't think Ex is saying Gasol is a better player than Dirk.

I feel the same way he does, I believe. If I have another star player on the wing, I'm taking Pau. If I don't have that, then Dirk is the better option in that situation.

The criteria never was who would you want to pair w/ Kobe? Gasol or Dirk? It was who would you rather have, assuming you have nothing I guess. If you were starting from scratch who would you take?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

The criteria never was who would you want to pair w/ Kobe? Gasol or Dirk? It was who would you rather have, assuming you have nothing I guess. If you were starting from scratch who would you take?

It all comes back to: Dirk may be a better individual talent, but I'd rather have Pau Gasol. It's really simple.

Also, pairing Dirk or Pau with another superstar is not an unfair direction to take the topic. Personnel should play a part in the discussion.

Scenario 1: All things equal, let's assume they both have average players at each position for teammates and that they're both the Batman's.

Dirk would have a greater chance at leading his team further in the playoffs than Pau would, assuming both are the #1 bananas. Dirk would probably produce more than Pau. That's all well and good and accepted, however neither of their teams would come close to sniffing a title.

Scenario 2: Let's say Dirk and Pau now each have a second option. They both can be either the Batman or Robin, doesn't matter.

Now Pau's team IMO has a better chance at getting a title than Dirk's team. Due to each of the player's strengths.

I can't put it another way than that. Today, I would pencil Dirk in as a top 10 talent but like I said way back in the thread, I would take players ranked below him before Dirk if I wanted a better chance at a title.

[JBH3]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

It all comes back to: Dirk may be a better individual talent, but I'd rather have Pau Gasol. It's really simple.

Also, pairing Dirk or Pau with another superstar is not an unfair direction to take the topic. Personnel should play a part in the discussion.

Scenario 1: All things equal, let's assume they both have average players at each position for teammates and that they're both the Batman's.

Dirk would have a greater chance at leading his team further in the playoffs than Pau would, assuming both are the #1 bananas. Dirk would probably produce more than Pau. That's all well and good and accepted, however neither of their teams would come close to sniffing a title.

Scenario 2: Let's say Dirk and Pau now each have a second option. They both can be either the Batman or Robin, doesn't matter.

Now Pau's team IMO has a better chance at getting a title than Dirk's team. Due to each of the player's strengths.

I can't put it another way than that. Today, I would pencil Dirk in as a top 10 talent but like I said way back in the thread, I would take players ranked below him before Dirk if I wanted a better chance at a title.

Honestly I think there is no absolute way to looking at this. The "neither of their teams would come close to sniffing a title" comment tells me you think there is.

I'm taking Dirk no matter what because we all can agree he's the better player, and the toughness/defensive capabilities of Gasol are not enough to look past what Dirk can do. I also don't buy that Gasol is the more cerebral of the two as Bucher pointed out. I think that if anything, they are equal.

With that said though...I think that the Lakers teams is constructed in a cohesive way that allows Pau to fit a more accustomed role to his position/size.

Dallas just seems to have a stable of players that do not complement each other. They're immensely talented individuals, but what Dirk needs is a #5 that has some real offensive abilities, and not just a big body to grab boards. Haywood is only a slight increase over Dampier. If there was a player to actually have to account for in the paint (Al Jefferson maybe) then this team would be lethal, but they're hamstrung by their makeup.

That's no knock to Dirk. You can't just say "Well since Dirk is not a true PF, Gasol is the better fit" because you can't deny Dirks insane ability. I just think that Dallas has put together a team of extremely talented players, but not the "right" cast.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

There's a third part to Pau's edges though and that's post offense.

That faucet of his game like I had mentioned, opens up the entire offense. His ability to score the basketball in the paint, draw doubles in the paint, pass out of the post or even take his guy to the basket from the face up.

I like that better than Dirk shooting from the perimeter. Not saying Dirk can't help open up the offense for his team, but Pau is so efficient inside and you couple that with his awareness... I'd rather have that impact that what Dirk can do.

[jeebs9]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Come on, he's been stopped. By PG's/SG's nonetheless. DWest punked the crap out of him.

If you're a defensive minded guy and you pick Dirk I don't know what to tell you haha

BTW those stats that were posted from last year's playoffs don't confirm anything that hasn't been said already.

Dirk is probably a "better" player than Pau, so yeap the stats are going to show that.

Rebounding and defense is why I would rather have Pau than Dirk, which is what the topic is asking.

Why are you beating me up for? lol....

The only reason I pick Dirk is because how many 7' play like he does.....ever

I know what Gasol bring. Don't get me wrong. But Dirk jumper is scary.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

Haha not beating you up just messing around.

I'm surprised ZB9 hasn't entered the thread yet

[z4ckdabeast]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

ex carraba, I don't understand your argument. If you think Dirk is a better player, why would you take Pau if you're building a team from scratch? Because you live in southern California?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: who would you rather have, Dirk or Pau?

ex carraba, I don't understand your argument. If you think Dirk is a better player, why would you take Pau if you're building a team from scratch? Because you live in southern California?

No, not because I live in So Cal

I don't know how else to put it, it's pretty clear IMO.