Allen Iverson : After the NBA

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Because Scalabrine doesn't act like a spoiled brat who doesn't get his way when he doesn't start.

In short, he's a good teammate who knows his role. Basically the complete opposite of AI.

Scales is a good guy but Scalabrine has no business starting in this league OSU. He is just happy to be cashing a check so why would he complain about his role? To draw a comparison between a routine bench warmer and a former league MVP in regards to mentality in dealing with roles doesn't really make sense imo.

Looking at how pathetic the Lakers bench is and the fact they considered Gilbert Arenas as an option should give A.I. some hope of maybe getting a look eventually from someone.

[mKoz26]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Scales is a good guy but Scalabrine has no business starting in this league OSU. He is just happy to be cashing a check so why would he complain about his role? To draw a comparison between a routine bench warmer and a former league MVP in regards to mentality in dealing with reduced roles doesn't really make sense.

Right, but that's exactly why Iverson can't get a job. He still has the former league MVP mentality.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Right, but that's exactly why Iverson can't get a job. He still has the former league MVP mentality.

I think that is a misconception about him at this point in his career, brought on by his past behavior no doubt. No one knows his mentality at this point because it appears no team has made any move to even speak with him in the last two years to find out.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

I think that is a misconception about him at this point in his career

No, it's not.

The guy flat out refused to come off the bench in Detroit and Memphis, even when the team was better with him coming off the bench.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

No, it's not.

The guy flat out refused to come off the bench in Detroit and Memphis, even when the team was better with him coming off the bench.

Yes it is and way to cut off the rest of my post. That was over two years ago man(2009). You have the right to hold his past against him if you choose. I know Cleveland fans can hold a grudge but come on. No one knows where his mind is at now - you and me included. I have not heard about any teams talking to AI and him giving off that vibe to them recently. Did not hear about him being a problem for teammates and coaches in Turkey. You are using past transgressions to judge where his mindset is now which isn't fair but it is your choice to do so.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Yes it is and way to cut off the rest of my post. That was over two years ago man(2009). I know Cleveland fans can hold a grudge but come on. No one knows where his mind is at now - you and me included. I have not heard about any teams talking to AI and him giving off that vibe to them recently. Did not hear about him being a problem for teammates and coaches in Turkey. You are using past transgressions to judge where his mindset is now which isn't fair but it is your choice to do so.

You really think no team in the NBA called AI? You think they just assumed that they blackballed him?

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

You really think no team in the NBA called AI? You think they just assumed that they blackballed him?

Based on what his reps have said..No. I have not heard any claims from "unnamed sources" in the NBA recently that AI still refuses to accept a reduced role. His past behavior played a huge part in his standing with the league and he has no one to blame but himself for it. Even if one possibly turned a corner his past always follows OSU...

[23]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

At this point in his career... I think teams shy'd away from Iverson

He's no different than anyone else in the past talented with a bad attitude

From DC, to JR Rider.. the list can go on... but you can definitely attitude your way out of the NBA. Its not impossible

There comes a time where teams wont tolerate an attitude along with a bunch of 10/26 fg every other night

[Crossover1]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

At this point in his career... I think teams shy'd away from Iverson

He's no different than anyone else in the past talented with a bad attitude

From DC, to JR Rider.. the list can go on... but you can definitely attitude your way out of the NBA. Its not impossible

There comes a time where teams wont tolerate an attitude along with a bunch of 10/26 fg every other night

Lakers tolerate these from Mamba since God knows when, only difference is that he had a great supporting cast that were winners.

[wwharton]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Lakers tolerate these from Mamba since God knows when, only difference is that he had a great supporting cast that were winners.

You've made some good points and calling Kobe a volume shooter isn't completely overblown, but comparing Iverson's daily shot selection and percentage to Kobe at any point in his career is a very, very big stretch.

[Crossover1]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

You've made some good points and calling Kobe a volume shooter isn't completely overblown, but comparing Iverson's daily shot selection and percentage to Kobe at any point in his career is a very, very big stretch.

Kobe only shot a considerably better percentage in the latter part of his career, which shouldn't be an issue when you have teammates that can knock down shots when the defense is focused on the star. Plus, Kobe is a much bigger guard (than AI) who is usually (like 95% of the time) bigger than his defender.

Iverson had his most efficient season playing with Denver, a highly powered offensive team, in 07-08. He had shooters in Smith, Kleiza, Melo as well as a post presence in Nene (although he was hardly played due to major injuries at the time). AI still could have easily average 30+ PPG had it not been for more options on this team, so he decided to shoot less.

Mostly everything that people bring up negatively about AI was in the past (practice!?!, bench, shooting a lot, etc.) and still use it as if he has the same mentality today. If AI and Kobe were to switch places at the beginning of their careers, everyone would be on AI's jock and Kobe would be out of the league earlier than AI, unless he demanded to be traded.

[23]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Don't get me wrong, I do believe Kobe gets credited alot when I see his teammates save him in alot of situation, so you wont see me defending him there.

I am not impressed with guys chucking for points inefficiently

I think its weird so many people defended the kind of low iq stuff he did.. but thats no excuse for Iverson for having a bad attitude

His main reasons for being out of the league right now is his attitude... and you cannot justify that. He had enough rope to hang himself with and thats just what he did.

[wwharton]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Kobe only shot a considerably better percentage in the latter part of his career, which shouldn't be an issue when you have teammates that can knock down shots when the defense is focused on the star. Plus, Kobe is a much bigger guard (than AI) who is usually (like 95% of the time) bigger than his defender.

Iverson had his most efficient season playing with Denver, a highly powered offensive team, in 07-08. He had shooters in Smith, Kleiza, Melo as well as a post presence in Nene (although he was hardly played due to major injuries at the time). AI still could have easily average 30+ PPG had it not been for more options on this team, so he decided to shoot less.

Mostly everything that people bring up negatively about AI was in the past (practice!?!, bench, shooting a lot, etc.) and still use it as if he has the same mentality today. If AI and Kobe were to switch places at the beginning of their careers, everyone would be on AI's jock and Kobe would be out of the league earlier than AI, unless he demanded to be traded.

Your comment was based on what AI has done in comparison to what Kobe has done. Specifically the Lakers tolerating 10/26 every other night from Kobe. Any details about why AI threw up more bad shots doesn't change the fact that the comparison doesn't fly. If you say the Lakers didn't have to tolerate that bc there were better options with Kobe, it still says the comparison is a bad one bc they didn't "tolerate it".

I've got nothing against AI. I drafted him to my all time team (and explained my reasoning as how more productive he'd be with other great players around him). I'm no Kobe fan either, but it still doesn't make sense to try to discredit Kobe and/or defend AI in that way.

[Crossover1]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

Your comment was based on what AI has done in comparison to what Kobe has done. Specifically the Lakers tolerating 10/26 every other night from Kobe. Any details about why AI threw up more bad shots doesn't change the fact that the comparison doesn't fly. If you say the Lakers didn't have to tolerate that bc there were better options with Kobe, it still says the comparison is a bad one bc they didn't "tolerate it".

I've got nothing against AI. I drafted him to my all time team (and explained my reasoning as how more productive he'd be with other great players around him). I'm no Kobe fan either, but it still doesn't make sense to try to discredit Kobe and/or defend AI in that way.

My point was the organization tolerated it because they were winning. Winning because Kobe had talent around him where as AI didn't. It's easy to forget/disregard a bad thing when you're winning. And that bad thing I'm referring to is shot selection. AI did not have much to do other than shoot because the only way his teammates will score are off of putbacks/garbage points.

Kobe had Pau, Bynum, Odom last year and still ranked very high (I think top 5 all-time) in usage percentage. He does not need to carry that much load with that much talent. I'm not saying Iverson had better shot selection. I'm just saying be consistent with what is good/bad shot selection. If Kobe throws up a fadeaway over 3 defenders (miss or make) and AI does the same, don't give 2 different answers. And this is not directed completely towards you. This is for everyone that always talks about his shot selection then turns a blind eye to Kobe's.

[wwharton]

Re: Allen Iverson : After the NBA

My point was the organization tolerated it because they were winning. Winning because Kobe had talent around him where as AI didn't. It's easy to forget/disregard a bad thing when you're winning. And that bad thing I'm referring to is shot selection. AI did not have much to do other than shoot because the only way his teammates will score are off of putbacks/garbage points.

Kobe had Pau, Bynum, Odom last year and still ranked very high (I think top 5 all-time) in usage percentage. He does not need to carry that much load with that much talent. I'm not saying Iverson had better shot selection. I'm just saying be consistent with what is good/bad shot selection. If Kobe throws up a fadeaway over 3 defenders (miss or make) and AI does the same, don't give 2 different answers. And this is not directed completely towards you. This is for everyone that always talks about his shot selection then turns a blind eye to Kobe's.

I figured it wasn't directed at me bc I haven't said anything about AI's shot selection, lol (besides replying to your post we're talking about now). The problem is you've twisted this discussion into a battle between AI and Kobe when Kobe didn't need to be brought into this at all. It's literally just a stretch to try to defend AI for something that's just true. I love AI and everything he's done but you can't explain away bad things.

For comparison, Kobe's shot around 45% from the field for the bulk of his career. Iverson only reached that mark twice, each of his years in Denver. The gap in 3pt % is just as big if not bigger. So the idea of 26 shots being a lot in the example given is what you're focusing on, but it's making only 10 that is the real problem. And I know that 10/26 was made up, but the reality is a volume shooter hitting 45% is much different than one hitting 41%... and the reaction to bad shots is much different too. I'm crossing threads, but this is similar to D12 saying "It doesn't matter if I miss every shot, give me the ball."

More importantly, you're making the assumption that people that mention his shot selection are turning a blind eye to Kobe's. Outside of the fact that criticism of Kobe for his shots should be different (as I mentioned above), you introduced Kobe to this thread. Anyone who criticized AI for his shot selection here could respond to your post with "Ok, Kobe shoots too much too... doesn't change the issue with AI finding a team to take him."