CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[Court_vision]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Hunter Would Wager On Cancellation Of 11-12 Season

Aug 04, 2011 12:27 PM EDT

Billy Hunter said Wednesday that if he "had to bet on it," he would wager that the entire 2011-12 season would be wiped out by the lockout.
"We're $800 million apart per year," Hunter told about 200 people during a seminar at a conference in Baltimore of the National Bar Association, an organization of predominantly African-American lawyers and judges.
Hunter believes hard-line owners have limited David Stern's ability to negotiate.
"The circumstances have changed among his constituency," said Hunter, the executive director since 1996. "In the last six or seven years, there is a new group of owners to come in who paid a premium for their franchises, and what they're doing is kind of holding his feet to the fire."
Asked by a conference attendee whether there would be a 2011-12 season, he replied: "If I had to bet on it at this moment, I would probably say no."

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...#ixzz1U6kqXTnv

[WTF]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

And he's (Hunter) probably one of the main reasons for that.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

LOL, really...

Honestly the guy just talks but his words really carry no weight in these negotiations

Having the players wait on the owners to crack is just not going to happen

Honestly they need to try to at least meet somewhere in the middle, throw in a little revenue sharing and get on with this

But as I said, they wont come to a conclusion like that early so its going to be ugly and get worse before it gets better.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

LOL, really...

Honestly the guy just talks but his words really carry no weight in these negotiations

Having the players wait on the owners to crack is just not going to happen

Honestly they need to try to at least meet somewhere in the middle, throw in a little revenue sharing and get on with this

But as I said, they wont come to a conclusion like that early so its going to be ugly and get worse before it gets better.

Really I don't understand how you can have so many smart educated people involved in these meetings, yet they wait til the 11th hour(maybe in this case the 25th hour) to get these things done. Especially when it ends pretty much how everybody expects it to.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

They had a particular time to get it done, missed it so they had to wait til the resume date which happened to be in August

[King_B_Mack]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Really I don't understand how you can have so many smart educated people involved in these meetings, yet they wait til the 11th hour(maybe in this case the 25th hour) to get these things done. Especially when it ends pretty much how everybody expects it to.

Because despite all the highly intelligent people involved, they all still have pride and are too stupid to put it aside long enough to accomplish something that's beneficial to all parties. They're obsessed with the next CBA when they haven't even gotten things right on this one. Nobody wants to bend first in this CBA because it'll make it harder to get something they want in the next CBA and God forbid the public laughs or makes jokes about them caving for the next five-ten years or however long this deal ends up being.

[wwharton]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Also, remember this isn't the same situation as the NFL (and it seems like Hunter is even proceeding like it is). That was more of a case of pride and stubborness holding things up, but at the end of the day both sides will make more than they did before. Here, somebody will end up with less money which makes this a lot uglier even without the egos.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The NFL is definitely not the model they should be following after... unless they would like to give up guaranteed contracts

..but like I said, if owners are losing money, players come into the season and leave the season richer each year, so honestly its hard to complain when you see it in that perspective

[wwharton]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The NFL is definitely not the model they should be following after... unless they would like to give us guaranteed contracts

..but like I said, if owners are losing money, players come into the season and leave the season richer each year, so honestly its hard to complain when you see it in that perspective

Exactly. I'm not on anybody's side here at this point, but the players need to step up to the table a bit more in this situation. Owners may be greedy but they've got some weight behind their beef here.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Let’s put things into perspective. When we talk about the ‘owners losing money’ it’s not all the owners. Jerry Reinsdorf, Jerry Buss and James Dolan are the few owners not sweating the current financial structure. Now grant it, there are probably more owners losing money than others. But that’s still up in the air.

Stern is the master strategist behind this lockout. He knows, like others, that a better revenue sharing structure would help alleviate the financial burden. However, the big time owners are the ones who are the stubborn ones who’re not going to give another dime to the small time owners. Guys like Buss and Mark Cuban has expressed dissatisfaction on sharing their profits with other teams. Stern knows that he cannot challenge the big time owners and he needs to get the small time owners off of his back. So where is he going to get the money? From the players. And the players don’t seem like they’re keen enough to realize that it’s Stern that setup this fight between players and owners(mainly the small time owners). A fight that they have little chance of winning.

Stern in this situation reminds me of Don King when he promoted Mike Tyson in his peak. He sets up a fight for Tyson against some poor sap who’s about to be drilled. He sits next to both fighters in the pre-fight conference. Hypes up the other fighter as he was going to be the next best thing. Then after the fight, walks away with the winner of the fight, which was usually Tyson.

[wwharton]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Let’s put things into perspective. When we talk about the ‘owners losing money’ it’s not all the owners. Jerry Reinsdorf, Jerry Buss and James Dolan are the few owners not sweating the current financial structure. Now grant it, there are probably more owners losing money than others. But that’s still up in the air.

Stern is the master strategist behind this lockout. He knows, like others, that a better revenue sharing structure would help alleviate the financial burden. However, the big time owners are the ones who are the stubborn ones who’re not going to give another dime to the small time owners. Guys like Buss and Mark Cuban has expressed dissatisfaction on sharing their profits with other teams. Stern knows that he cannot challenge the big time owners and he needs to get the small time owners off of his back. So where is he going to get the money? From the players. And the players don’t seem like they’re keen enough to realize that it’s Stern that setup this fight between players and owners(mainly the small time owners). A fight that they have little chance of winning.

Stern in this situation reminds me of Don King when he promoted Mike Tyson in his peak. He sets up a fight for Tyson against some poor sap who’s about to be drilled. He sits next to both fighters in the pre-fight conference. Hypes up the other fighter as he was going to be the next best thing. Then after the fight, walks away with the winner of the fight, which was usually Tyson.

I was definitely vague in my description of the entire situation. The owner vs owner aspect of this will also be a reason this is much uglier (tied into how that relates to players as well). But in all the snake like tactics, the owners still have a leg to stand on across the board bc players salaries have consistently gone up. We can blame the bad business model, but even with that it'd mean the players need to do salary cuts to fix the model.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I was definitely vague in my description of the entire situation. The owner vs owner aspect of this will also be a reason this is much uglier (tied into how that relates to players as well). But in all the snake like tactics, the owners still have a leg to stand on across the board bc players salaries have consistently gone up. We can blame the bad business model, but even with that it'd mean the players need to do salary cuts to fix the model.

No doubt about that. Players do need to pitch-in. However, we can look at it from both sides and lay blame to a lot of things. Players inflating contracts. Frivolous spending by the owners. Whatever floats your boat on this matter. I don’t see enough people turning their attention to the real culprit in this mess, David Stern. Stern has drawn all the attention away from him and put it squarely on the players. He even alleviated the owners part in this mess as well. Basically, the popular opinion of who caused this drama is on the players. And the way Stern is masterfully painting the players union in the media, makes it seem like the players are the ones ‘who’s got their cups but they ain’t chipped in’. BUT then, the players do themselves a disservice anytime they come to a microphone and speak on the negotiations. It’s almost like they’re playing themselves right out of the game.

We don’t know what’s actually going on in the negotiations and why they refuse to meet half way. It’s like we all assume that the owners are right and the players are wrong. As I stated before, I’m not taking sides. There is a reason why the players are in the stance they are in. Call it stubborn. Call it wrong. But people don’t have a hard stance for no reason at all. And I’m not inclined to believe that it’s just greed. Like I said, we don’t know and all we can give are assumptions. BUT I’m just the antagonist who just doesn’t accept the popular opinion as is.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

There are things across the board but its not just because of David Stern

There are alot of new owners now

Guys like Dan Gilbert and Clay Bennet are on this board that want this change to happen

Naming only the owners you can count on one hand that makes profit is definitely not good for this league... like I said, look at the Hornets...they'd be contracted right now had the NBA not bought the team. We dont need to continue to see this happening

While Stern definitely has a part in it, he does however still work for the owners. Donald Sterling didnt tell him to slap the minority market team owners in the face, he told him he was too soft on tha NBAPLA

after Stern insisted he wanted Sterling's input on some matter, the Clippers owner unloaded. "OK, I would fire you. You're great at marketing, but you're not tough enough with the union".

The players need to realize regardless they are in a no lose situation because as I said, they are paid guranteed millions each year regardless, and the owners need a system that wont have a bunch of holes in it, not just to precent them from being loosey goosey, but to also keep the foundation of the league in tact.

Stern can't make the players agree with the owners and vice versa, but im sorry when guys like the dude who owns the Phoenix Suns are starting to take over in the league, it doesn't matter what Jerry Buss is saying because LA will never be in danger of collapse.

[wwharton]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

No doubt about that. Players do need to pitch-in. However, we can look at it from both sides and lay blame to a lot of things. Players inflating contracts. Frivolous spending by the owners. Whatever floats your boat on this matter. I don’t see enough people turning their attention to the real culprit in this mess, David Stern. Stern has drawn all the attention away from him and put it squarely on the players. He even alleviated the owners part in this mess as well. Basically, the popular opinion of who caused this drama is on the players. And the way Stern is masterfully painting the players union in the media, makes it seem like the players are the ones ‘who’s got their cups but they ain’t chipped in’. BUT then, the players do themselves a disservice anytime they come to a microphone and speak on the negotiations. It’s almost like they’re playing themselves right out of the game.

We don’t know what’s actually going on in the negotiations and why they refuse to meet half way. It’s like we all assume that the owners are right and the players are wrong. As I stated before, I’m not taking sides. There is a reason why the players are in the stance they are in. Call it stubborn. Call it wrong. But people don’t have a hard stance for no reason at all. And I’m not inclined to believe that it’s just greed. Like I said, we don’t know and all we can give are assumptions. BUT I’m just the antagonist who just doesn’t accept the popular opinion as is.

I'm not taking sides either. I'm a bit burned out on the "who's to blame" discussion so I'm just staying out of that part and focusing on what needs to be done. I'm not putting blame on the players, just acknowledging that if they don't bend then nothing will get done.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

While Stern definitely has a part in it, he does however still work for the owners.

I'm not sure if you mean he works for them in a technical sense or he just acts like he works for them. Because in a technical sense, this is incorrect. As commissioner of the NBA, he is technically the CEO of the NBA. So in a business sense, the owners are like the directors in a corporation. So if anything, the owners work for him.

Now realistically, he acts like he works for them. BUT as with any smart CEO, you have to do that. Because, the board of directors can take a vote and vote you out. Even though they still hold the fate of his title, Stern as the CEO can levy fines against the owners, finalize moves/sales of franchises AND even move for contraction of teams. Like he thought about early in 2010 but retracted.