****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I don't know, I just know I hate hearing about that ALL THE TIME. We always have to hear the experience angle with games like these. LeBron I would say is not a good example. Last year wasn't LeBron's first Finals. By the experience logic that we all bring out, LeBron should've dominated last year because he'd been there before. The difference in play between this year and last year isn't so much experience of what to expect and how to deal with adversity in the Finals, it's LeBron trying to get people off his *** about not winning. The experience thing is played up way too much.

You're trying to make it too black and white. It's not a video game with an attribute assigned to "finals experience". You have to go deeper to really suggest any effects (which you wouldn't do if you're completely writing it off, of course). Sticking with Lebron, there is no argument that the pressure of this final is MUCH different than before. Add to that, the attempt to play off Wade, quiet the critics, take the "last shot" just bc or other media created crap has a pressure that would just naturally increase on the grandest stage. Kind of OT but the idea that James is playing different to get people off his *** is a bigger pile of crap actually. That's not one of those things you just DECIDE to do, lol. If that's a general way of saying, "He's taking a more serious approach, is learning how to be more active without dominating the ball, focusing more on getting the ball in great scoring position, and not letting outside chatter effect his play." then ok. But just that general statement... nah.

It's not just a random concept though. There's a reason teams with more seniors are predicted to do better in the playoffs on the college and high school level... teams that routinely make it so far on those levels generally continue to go far more consistently than up and comers. Hell, there's a reason you'd rather have a surgeon who's been practicing for 20 years than the top student in the country who's only fresh out of med school. Unsettled nerves certainly play a role in all walks of life. You can call BS on any claims that they caused a team to win or lose, but they definitely play their role on these guys.

[NINJAK2]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I can't take when people get mad at refs. I don't think it's hard to say that The Heat were the better team tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYD2kOcJC0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Refs are bad. Have been bad and will continue to be bad. They usually play some role partially in the outcome of games therefore they will continue to be a topic. Given that the NBA is really the only sport where fans have routinely complained about inconsistent officiating for years it's really time to shake that area of the game up imo. Not saying they are the sole reason for every game's outcome but they play a huge role in player rotations, pace, and flow do to inaccurate/quick/non-existent whistles.

Wade has really become annoying with his constant whining and/or staring at the refs at every missed shot of his. Very pathetic. IMO if the Heat lose this series Wade takes a bigger PR hit than LBJ imo.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Given that the NBA is really the only sport where fans have routinely complained about inconsistent officiating for years it's really time to shake that area of the game up imo.

The national media has you twisted in the mind man. OK fans complain about officiating every time they lose. I'm sure some people who live in Texas can confirm, but OU football fans are the WORST. It's really no surprise the Thunder fans (who are also mostly OU fans) complain about officials every time they lose, never say a word when they win.

[iLLosophy]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Refs are bad. Have been bad and will continue to be bad. They usually play a role in the outcome of games therefore they will continue to be a topic. Given that the NBA is really the only sport where fans have routinely complained about inconsistent officiating for years it's really time to shake that area of the game up imo. Not saying they were they are the sole reason for every game but they play a huge role in player rotations, pace, and flow do to inaccurate/quick/non-existent whistles.

Wade has really become annoying with his constant whining and/or staring at the refs at every missed shot of his. Very pathetic. IMO if the Heat lose this series Wade takes a bigger PR hit than LBJ imo.

Think there might be a number of factors
1) The League is at its most "touchiest" standard ever - meaning there were a lot of things that Refs didn't have to watch for 10,20,30,50 years ago, that they have to watch for now. And not only they have to watch for them, but they have to categorize it in real time. Safe to say the job for a NBA ref is the most difficult that it has ever been. They might just need more eyes on the court, and honestly there's a lot of things that I think could be eventually automated once the technology is there (e.g. def 3 seconds). But until that happens I honestly think they can use one more ref out there.
2) I think there is a narrative coming down from the league office that is told to the refs but isn't told to us. Harden got a lot of flop calls in the first two rounds, and now he's not getting any. We all can speculate why, but I do think it's not a coincidence that it happened the same time an article is published saying the NBA is looking into flopping. Thus some of the inconsistencies we see.

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Refs are bad. Have been bad and will continue to be bad. They usually play a role in the outcome of games therefore they will continue to be a topic. Given that the NBA is really the only sport where fans have routinely complained about inconsistent officiating for years it's really time to shake that area of the game up imo. Not saying they were they are the sole reason for every game but they play a huge role in player rotations, pace, and flow do to inaccurate/quick/non-existent whistles.

Wade has really become annoying with his constant whining and/or staring at the refs at every missed shot of his. Very pathetic. IMO if the Heat lose this series Wade takes a bigger PR hit than LBJ imo.

There are more complaints with the NBA bc NBA refs have the hardest jobs.

1. If they call every infraction by the book, we would absolutely hate the product.
2. There's more nonstop action than other sports.
3. Players try to take advantage of how hard the job is by acting like they're fouled even when they're not.

We really shouldn't be expecting a perfectly called game... ever. Refs are part of the game, that's just how it is. It's hard to accept so you can't help but get mad at calls that look obvious. But at the end of the day, something could probably be called every single time down the court. A travel, reaching call, hand on the back of the post player, moving screens, holds on box outs, etc. We really don't want perfect refs.

[23]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Its consistency that people are asking for not perfection

If its that bad, use more refs

Why is it always the same guy in all the big games

...and most of the time that guy is an agressive whistler ie Dick Bavetta, Joey Crawford, Bennett Salvatore

It makes no sense to continue to say its hard if the league wont rectify the issue and thats the key. Dress code, headbands, twitter... but not really get into the meat and potatos of one of the things that make people question the integrity of your league more than ever.

[NINJAK2]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

The national media has you twisted in the mind man. OK fans complain about officiating every time they lose. I'm sure some people who live in Texas can confirm, but OU football fans are the WORST. It's really no surprise the Thunder fans (who are also mostly OU fans) complain about officials every time they lose, never say a word when they win.

Dude. I can think for myself. I'm not an OU fan (check my 76er avatar)and I don't let the media tell me what to think. I've been complaining about officiating for years in the NBA. Think what you want..

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Its consistency that people are asking for not perfection

If its that bad, use more refs

Why is it always the same guy in all the big games

...and most of the time that guy is an agressive whistler ie Dick Bavetta, Joey Crawford, Bennett Salvatore

It makes no sense to continue to say its hard if the league wont rectify the issue and thats the key. Dress code, headbands, twitter... but not really get into the meat and potatos of one of the things that make people question the integrity of your league more than ever.

I've actually got no problem with people complaining about them. I definitely understand, and have yelled at my share of refs in person. It's frustrating to watch sometimes. But I don't think it's as easy to fix as that. Basketball refs are bad at all levels... always have been. It's a really, really hard game to referee. And I really don't think refs are getting worse, I think players are getting better at influencing them. I agree with switching up the crews, but I don't think putting more in a game will help. And I don't think there are better refs out there than the ones in the NBA now. It's unfortunate.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Dude. I can think for myself. I'm not an OU fan (check my 76er avatar)and I don't let the media tell me what to think. I've been complaining about officiating for years in the NBA. Think what you want..

I didn't say you were an OU fan..just sayin' that other sports get as much crap as the NBA, mainly college football. And this series is especially whined about because about 40% of the people watching the series are Thunder fans. And as people have said before, the NBA is pretty hard to officiate I'd think.

[NINJAK2]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

There are more complaints with the NBA bc NBA refs have the hardest jobs.

1. If they call every infraction by the book, we would absolutely hate the product.
2. There's more nonstop action than other sports.
3. Players try to take advantage of how hard the job is by acting like they're fouled even when they're not.

We really shouldn't be expecting a perfectly called game... ever. Refs are part of the game, that's just how it is. It's hard to accept so you can't help but get mad at calls that look obvious. But at the end of the day, something could probably be called every single time down the court. A travel, reaching call, hand on the back of the post player, moving screens, holds on box outs, etc. We really don't want perfect refs.

Where did I ask for perfection wwharton. I said consistency man. Different things. A foul on one end is a foul on the other, etc, etc. If they can't officiate a game right don't you think it's about that time they made changes to ensure that they can do so? Add another body or something. That excuse that officiating an NBA game is hard is really getting old to me. It's really hard to say I would be disgusted with more infractions called-Let's see it happen 1st. The Heat/Bos series had plenty of moving screens, over the back fouls, etc called and that did not curtail my interest in those games at all. If players don't want traveling, fouls, or holds called don't do them-It's as simple as that. I don't think the answer is to look the other way when they happen in order to not interupt the flow of a game. That makes zero sense to me. Mean you no disrespect.

I am also well aware of players selling calls and that working lies equally on the refs as well as the players due to the fact that refs often call what they THINK happend rather than what they actually saw with THEIR OWN EYES.

[NINJAK2]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I didn't say you were an OU fan..just sayin' that other sports get as much crap as the NBA, mainly college football. And this series is especially whined about because about 40% of the people watching the series are Thunder fans. And as people have said before, the NBA is pretty hard to officiate I'd think.

Heat- do you really think people complain about College Football officiating equally as much as NBA officiating?

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Heat- do you really think people complain about College Football officiating equally as much as NBA officiating?

This is mostly a function of where you live. Here in the South (SEC country, Roll Tide btw) you better believe fans do. The higher the stakes the more fans will complain.

[Scott812313]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Where did I ask for perfection wwharton. I said consistency man. Different things. A foul on one end is a foul on the other, etc, etc. If they can't officiate a game right don't you think it's about that time they made changes to ensure that they can do so? Add another body or something. That excuse that officiating an NBA game is hard is really getting old to me. It's really hard to say I would be disgusted with more infractions called-Let's see it happen 1st. The Heat/Bos series had plenty of moving screens, over the back fouls, etc called and that did not curtail my interest in those games at all. If players don't want traveling, fouls, or holds called don't do them-It's as simple as that. I don't think the answer is to look the other way when they happen in order to not interupt the flow of a game. That makes zero sense to me. Mean you no disrespect.

I am also well aware of players selling calls and that working lies equally on the refs as well as the players due to the fact that refs often call what they THINK happend rather than what they actually saw with THEIR OWN EYES.

This is one of the 2 main issues I have with officiating. The call Wade got last night on the reverse layup is the perfect example of an anticipation call, the ref saw Harden touch Wade's back/hip and called a foul, even though he didn't push/bump/grab him.

[The 24th Letter]

So, how about those NBA Finals?

[Hawaii_Stars]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Let's just make it easy for the refs...No blood no foul.
Jokes aside, officiating is hard in all sports. Athletes are bigger, faster, stronger etc... I think the reason we get so upset is there are so many different angles to see a play at. We can see everything that went on during the play, whereas an official only has one set of eyes from one angle. So I kinda agree with having more refs, because you have more eyes from different angles watching what's going on. We can even have refs for both sides of the court so these old as officials don't have to break a hip just to get into position and by the time they look at the play, they miss the action and guess what might have happened..