****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

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  • iLLosophy
    Plata o Plomo
    • Sep 2005
    • 3673

    #2131
    Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

    Just throwing it out there - do the refs need to be out on the court? I mean there's got to be hundreds of cameras now covering every player on the court (if anybody ever used TNT hangtime, they let you watch each player on the court - whether they had the ball or not). This may sound naive, but couldn't 3 refs be a lot more effective watching 2-3 realtime monitors instead?

    Comment

    • wwharton
      *ll St*r
      • Aug 2002
      • 26949

      #2132
      Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

      Originally posted by NINJAK2
      Where did I ask for perfection wwharton. I said consistency man. Different things. A foul on one end is a foul on the other, etc, etc. If they can't officiate a game right don't you think it's about that time they made changes to ensure that they can do so? Add another body or something. That excuse that officiating an NBA game is hard is really getting old to me. It's really hard to say I would be disgusted with more infractions called-Let's see it happen 1st. The Heat/Bos series had plenty of moving screens, over the back fouls, etc called and that did not curtail my interest in those games at all. If players don't want traveling, fouls, or holds called don't do them-It's as simple as that. I don't think the answer is to look the other way when they happen in order to not interupt the flow of a game. That makes zero sense to me. Mean you no disrespect.

      I am also well aware of players selling calls and that working lies equally on the refs as well as the players due to the fact that refs often call what they THINK happend rather than what they actually saw with THEIR OWN EYES.
      The type of consistency you're talking about is about the same as asking for perfection. Fouls are determined by the effect contact has on a shot. By the book, just about any contact is a foul. Even if they rewrote the book to match what we see, it'd still leave almost every single foul call up to the judgement of the ref. It's hard enough to see all the possible areas of contact at full speed, but also determining if it's illegal and effecting the shot is a hard thing to do... and that's only talking about one specific area of officiating.

      The excuse may be getting old to you but if you've spent a good amount of time playing, coaching or reffing at any level you'd know that it sucks but it's true. Just the nature of the game makes it very difficult, and moreso than any of the other major sports. What you saw in the Celtics/76ers series was nothing. I'm not exaggerating when I say a violation can probably be called every single time up the court. These guys change their pivot foot almost every time they just catch the ball at the top of the key. What stands out in that series is Garnett getting called for that moving pick late in the game... what isn't mentioned much is that he'd be doing it all game, and probably warned for it multiple times before that call was made.

      And finally, you should try reffing a game so you can see what actually can be picked up on "with your own two eyes"... for an entire game, running up and down the court. The best thing a ref ever says to me is "Sorry, I missed that one." It happens and there's no way around it. Ten refs on the court wouldn't catch everything.

      Originally posted by Scott812313
      This is one of the 2 main issues I have with officiating. The call Wade got last night on the reverse layup is the perfect example of an anticipation call, the ref saw Harden touch Wade's back/hip and called a foul, even though he didn't push/bump/grab him.
      Wade appeared to change directions slightly in mid air. That doesn't happen without contact. Was it an optical illusion? Honestly, it's possible it just looked strange. But from the way he looked to go from straight to left in midair, any ref would call that. Harden definitely had a hand on his waist which would also support the thought that Wade shifted left bc he was pushed.

      Comment

      • bakan723
        Banned
        • Aug 2010
        • 1543

        #2133
        Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

        Computerized officiating

        IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

        No more crying and complaining (from fans and the players) and no more superstar bs.

        Comment

        • Hotobu
          MVP
          • Sep 2008
          • 1438

          #2134
          Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

          Originally posted by bakan723
          Computerized officiating

          IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

          No more crying and complaining (from fans and the players) and no more superstar bs.
          You're joking right? Please tell me this is a joke so I don't have to rattle off the myriad of reasons why this is an incredibly dumb idea.

          Comment

          • ubernoob
            ****
            • Jul 2004
            • 15522

            #2135
            Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

            Welcome to the NBA forum. Enjoy your stay.
            bad

            Comment

            • Recktafy
              Banned
              • Jun 2012
              • 112

              #2136
              Who do you guys think will win the finals

              Comment

              • BlastX21
                MVP
                • Jul 2010
                • 2118

                #2137
                Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                Originally posted by bakan723
                Computerized officiating

                IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

                No more crying and complaining (from fans and the players) and no more superstar bs.
                Hm, I thought it was impossible for several years at first, but on reflection...

                Theoretically you could attatch sensors on key areas of the players, and if an external force greater than X is applied to the area, a foul is called.

                Still would take time to develop, and obviously, actual application of it would be more complicated.
                Originally posted by Kaiser Wilhelm
                there should not be ties occurring in the NFL except when neither team wins the game.

                Comment

                • bakan723
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 1543

                  #2138
                  Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                  Originally posted by Hotobu
                  You're joking right? Please tell me this is a joke so I don't have to rattle off the myriad of reasons why this is an incredibly dumb idea.
                  Bottom line and the single most important thing when it comes to officiating, is getting the calls right. Which doesn't happen NEARLY enough with the current system in place.

                  At the very least, they should give the coaches a instant replay challenge or two in the game to use, where the refs can go back and look at the slow-mo replays from different angles..reverse the decision if evidence is conclusive.

                  Comment

                  • BringTheHeat
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 2264

                    #2139
                    Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                    Originally posted by bakan723
                    Computerized officiating

                    IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN

                    No more crying and complaining (from fans and the players) and no more superstar bs.
                    We don't like new ideas 'round here boy.
                    "To the last minute, to the last second, to the last man, we fight"

                    Comment

                    • JerzeyReign
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2009
                      • 4847

                      #2140
                      Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                      Originally posted by Recktafy
                      Who do you guys think will win the finals
                      Did you really just ask this question on Page 214?! LOL! You're good in my book bruh.

                      Out of the consistent posters in this thread, its about 80-20 OKC. I'm in that 20% going for Miami.
                      #WashedGamer

                      Comment

                      • Scott812313
                        MVP
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 1877

                        #2141
                        Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                        Originally posted by wwharton
                        The type of consistency you're talking about is about the same as asking for perfection. Fouls are determined by the effect contact has on a shot. By the book, just about any contact is a foul. Even if they rewrote the book to match what we see, it'd still leave almost every single foul call up to the judgement of the ref. It's hard enough to see all the possible areas of contact at full speed, but also determining if it's illegal and effecting the shot is a hard thing to do... and that's only talking about one specific area of officiating.

                        The excuse may be getting old to you but if you've spent a good amount of time playing, coaching or reffing at any level you'd know that it sucks but it's true. Just the nature of the game makes it very difficult, and moreso than any of the other major sports. What you saw in the Celtics/76ers series was nothing. I'm not exaggerating when I say a violation can probably be called every single time up the court. These guys change their pivot foot almost every time they just catch the ball at the top of the key. What stands out in that series is Garnett getting called for that moving pick late in the game... what isn't mentioned much is that he'd be doing it all game, and probably warned for it multiple times before that call was made.

                        And finally, you should try reffing a game so you can see what actually can be picked up on "with your own two eyes"... for an entire game, running up and down the court. The best thing a ref ever says to me is "Sorry, I missed that one." It happens and there's no way around it. Ten refs on the court wouldn't catch everything.



                        Wade appeared to change directions slightly in mid air. That doesn't happen without contact. Was it an optical illusion? Honestly, it's possible it just looked strange. But from the way he looked to go from straight to left in midair, any ref would call that. Harden definitely had a hand on his waist which would also support the thought that Wade shifted left bc he was pushed.
                        Wade has supreme body control and is a known flopper, he always flails around like that at the bucket. If you watch the replay, Harden doesn't extend his arm at all, just touches him.

                        As for any ref would call that, I just wish they would call fouls when people get hammered in the head, like Miami has gotten away with a few times in this series and in previous rounds. I'm not saying that's the reason they're up 2-1, but the advantageous whistle they get is undeniable. When 2 teams are pretty evenly matched, that can be hard to overcome, both on the scoreboard and mentally.
                        "In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That's Jim Tressel."

                        Comment

                        • Drewski
                          Basketball Reasons
                          • Jun 2011
                          • 3783

                          #2142
                          Tonight should be an awesome game. Both teams will likely be playing with heightened levels of desperation. One to close the door a bit more the other for a jolt of life.

                          Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
                          Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

                          Comment

                          • kayfngee
                            Pro
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 794

                            #2143
                            Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                            Originally posted by bakan723
                            Bottom line and the single most important thing when it comes to officiating, is getting the calls right. Which doesn't happen NEARLY enough with the current system in place.
                            It happens a lot more than you seem to think though.

                            Comment

                            • Hotobu
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1438

                              #2144
                              Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                              Originally posted by bakan723
                              Bottom line and the single most important thing when it comes to officiating, is getting the calls right. Which doesn't happen NEARLY enough with the current system in place.

                              At the very least, they should give the coaches a instant replay challenge or two in the game to use, where the refs can go back and look at the slow-mo replays from different angles..reverse the decision if evidence is conclusive.
                              So you're not joking, or you are? I still can't tell.

                              Comment

                              • kayfngee
                                Pro
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 794

                                #2145
                                Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

                                Originally posted by TajDeni


                                Westbrook is every bit as good as KD, and id argue that P4P he is even better than KD. ask youself this outside of scoring, what does KD do better than Westbrook?
                                He is a better rebounder, shot blocker, and probably overall defender (although I don't think either is that good defensively).

                                Comment

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