****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Damn, I'd hate to see what bad looks like.

In Comparisons to other sports I'd say so(That might not be a good thing, but it is what it is at this point). I'll admit last nights 3rd Quarter is one of the worst I've seen. But remember the HUMAN ELEMENT!

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Jeebs, where are you getting this notion that Brooks hasn't been running any zone defense out there?

[thaima1shu]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Thunder have dropped three straight ever since that Sonics Rally we had here. Zombie Sonics hex.

[The 24th Letter]

Pretty sure OKC ran some zone in Games 1 & 2, not sure about last night...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Pretty sure OKC ran some zone in Games 1 & 2, not sure about last night...

They ran a little bit of 2-3 in the 4th but by then, it was already too late and Miami already had the momentum going for them.

I just don't think it's as easy as saying, "Well Dallas ran zone against Miami and it worked" because there were different factors that played a role in Dallas' zone being so effective against MIA compared to OKC.

[kayfngee]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

They ran a little bit of 2-3 in the 4th but by then, it was already too late and Miami already had the momentum going for them.

I just don't think it's as easy as saying, "Well Dallas ran zone against Miami and it worked" because there were different factors that played a role in Dallas' zone being so effective against MIA compared to OKC.

Like LeBron looking like he had no interest in scoring?

[bakan723]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

In Comparisons to other sports I'd say so(That might not be a good thing, but it is what it is at this point). I'll admit last nights 3rd Quarter is one of the worst I've seen. But remember the HUMAN ELEMENT!

I can live with the human element in other sports, where they're not blowing so many calls left and right.

But b-ball just seems too much for human refs to handle.

[tehova]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

And then you get Team USA Preps starting the first week of July.

AND SUMMER LEAGUE!

Spoiler

Yes, a rare tehova post after The Nation has been eliminated

[jeebs9]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

They've played zone in this series? I haven't noticed not once. There was one possession I thought they were playing zone. But that turned out to be a man to man.

[zanner]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

About the fouls - They're going to be a couple missed, and a couple WTF's here and there and for both teams.

For the series the Miami Heat have attempted 103 free throws, OKC 93 . Note Game 3 where Miami shot 35 and OKC 24 ... One game discrepancy. OKC I would argue are somewhat fortunate to have that many free throws when you look at the fact that after game 1 they've almost become an exclusive jump shooting team. The refs aren't the difference - The styles of play are the difference. Miami is attacking the rim any chance they get, they're running hard in transition now and when those things happen you're going to get fouled and get calls... Oklahoma on the other hand aren't attacking the rim, Heat want them to jump shoot and when a team jump shoots it's pretty easy to not foul or get in foul trouble as opposed to driving the ball and increasing the chances of illegal contact.

On top of that, OKC is playing horrible defense - They're lazy on defense and when that happens, you're going to accrue more fouls because you're not in position or even close to position to get the benefit of the doubt on contact.

A lot of credit goes to Heat and not refs because they've appeared to want it a lot more and putting in effort all game, all five players. And that too makes legal contact look worse than it is when one guy is going 110% and another at about 90% which is what it appears to me especially the past 3 games .. I mean you look at Perkins and Ibaka and you wonder do those guys even want to be out there? Even Durant looks somewhat lifeless. Sofalosha is playing as tough as he can on D, and Westbrook is going at it like he wants it .. But the rest of the team, damn it's the finals and now almost a little to late to play with any sense of urgency. And that is the difference that's being confused with reffing.

[jeebs9]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

And alot of the Thunders problems on defense is the cross matching going on defense. But people need to understand when your running back on defense. And your the point guard and your man is the shooting guard (Westbrook vs Wade). When Westbrook scores. Someone needs to pick up his man (Wade in this case) back the other way. But with there also can be too much switching. A great example of that was the Mario Chambers 3 (where he is wide open) and steps right into a shot. You there is a miscommuncation with Durant and someone else.

[slimm44]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

About the fouls - They're going to be a couple missed, and a couple WTF's here and there and for both teams.

For the series the Miami Heat have attempted 103 free throws, OKC 93 . Note Game 3 where Miami shot 35 and OKC 24 ... One game discrepancy. OKC I would argue are somewhat fortunate to have that many free throws when you look at the fact that after game 1 they've almost become an exclusive jump shooting team. The refs aren't the difference - The styles of play are the difference. Miami is attacking the rim any chance they get, they're running hard in transition now and when those things happen you're going to get fouled and get calls... Oklahoma on the other hand aren't attacking the rim, Heat want them to jump shoot and when a team jump shoots it's pretty easy to not foul or get in foul trouble as opposed to driving the ball and increasing the chances of illegal contact.

On top of that, OKC is playing horrible defense - They're lazy on defense and when that happens, you're going to accrue more fouls because you're not in position or even close to position to get the benefit of the doubt on contact.

A lot of credit goes to Heat and not refs because they've appeared to want it a lot more and putting in effort all game, all five players. And that too makes legal contact look worse than it is when one guy is going 110% and another at about 90% which is what it appears to me especially the past 3 games .. I mean you look at Perkins and Ibaka and you wonder do those guys even want to be out there? Even Durant looks somewhat lifeless. Sofalosha is playing as tough as he can on D, and Westbrook is going at it like he wants it .. But the rest of the team, damn it's the finals and now almost a little to late to play with any sense of urgency. And that is the difference that's being confused with reffing.

Okc took 28 shots at the rim last night, Miami took 23. Westbrook himself took 12. With that, he got 3 fta. Did you watch the game last night? Without westbrook getting to the rim and finishing in traffic, okc wouldn't have been in the game until the last minute.

Also, there's only been one game where Miami took more shots at the rim than okc.

[bakan723]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I wonder how many times they would of sent Wade to the line if he was driving like Westbrook was last night ?

[23]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Miami won the game

OKC didnt play enough defense and they only had 2 guys putting in any work

That's all there is too it

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I was trying to say that the other day. That he is the only non-center to average what he is averaging right now. What is it 30,10, and 4 right now?

I just wonder what the aftermath will be if the Heat win. I know I'll be pretty proud of my favorite player.

I'm going to repeat this again. And I might a few times. But I think Scott Brooks should look into doing 2 things tonight. They should run a few plays with Durant having the ball in his hands. Like a lot more isolating with him. Even if it's in the post.

Scott Brooks needs to run some zones out of timeouts. He got to change the game a little once Miami is on a run.

Absolutely not to more iso. Their offense has been way too much iso as it is, which is why it looks stagnant. They're trying to get Durant the ball for an iso, he can't shake the defender, shot clock runs down, Westbrook has to make something up... or they get it to Durant and bc the Heat knows they're running iso the help defenders are getting in position before he even chooses a move to make. They need to run a freaking offense and occupy all 5 defenders to create more space when Durant gets the ball, and he needs to get the ball more in spots where he can quickly make a decisive move.

As you know, I'm with you on the zone.

They ran a little bit of 2-3 in the 4th but by then, it was already too late and Miami already had the momentum going for them.

I just don't think it's as easy as saying, "Well Dallas ran zone against Miami and it worked" because there were different factors that played a role in Dallas' zone being so effective against MIA compared to OKC.

It's not about Dallas though. The starting lineup they want to run out there doesn't match up well in man to man. Plus, they've been playing each other for 4 games now... they may be running different people at James et al but it's the same defense over and over. You have to switch it up, give them different looks. There are places for you to do that in man D but switching to a zone would be good for them every now and then. You can't stick with it forever. James did chop up their zone in game 2 if I'm not mistaken. But I want to see James make the adjustment of being doubled, not being doubled, played tight/not, dealing with a zone, etc. He's good enough to succeed in each situation but make him prove that he can analyze each situation and make the proper adjustments each time with you mixing it up.

And finally, as horrible as their help defense has been recently, you'd think they'd at least try a little zone to manufacture some help for all the players penetrating for the Heat. Maybe you turn them into a jump shooting team which triggers your transition break more... wouldn't be the first time the Heat stars started falling in love with the jump shot if you give it to them.

I can live with the human element in other sports, where they're not blowing so many calls left and right.

But b-ball just seems too much for human refs to handle.

This is true, but I personally wouldn't have it any other way. I want the humans to get it right, not be removed. I like the gap between reality and video games... plus there's always a break to the code. I'd be even more pissed if they found a way to have things determined strictly by computers (sensors on bodies or whatever) and players find a way to take advantage of the programming.

Okc took 28 shots at the rim last night, Miami took 23. Westbrook himself took 12. With that, he got 3 fta. Did you watch the game last night? Without westbrook getting to the rim and finishing in traffic, okc wouldn't have been in the game until the last minute.

Also, there's only been one game where Miami took more shots at the rim than okc.

Really have to look beyond the numbers here though. As someone mentioned earlier, Westbrook didn't really get fouled on his drives. It's amazing but true. And who else on the team attacked the rim? Who else is capable of attacking the rim besides Durant and the help was easily getting in position whenever he touched the ball (can't say Harden bc he's MIA).