****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I wonder how many times they would of sent Wade to the line if he was driving like Westbrook was last night ?

The same bc Westbrook drove with the intention of avoiding contact and did a good job of it.

[whoahello]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

OKC made lots of mistakes or just wasn't able to finish when they should've overall.

Mr. Fisher played 22 minutes and pretty much did nothing. Oh yeah and once LeBron had that injury in the 4th quarter, Fisher decides to be a hero only to be blocked by Wade (it was actually a nice block by a guard, all ball).

James Harden blew the easy fast break point after a nice steal.

Westbrook intentionally fouling when he didn't have to. Poor communication.

[slimm44]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Really have to look beyond the numbers here though. As someone mentioned earlier, Westbrook didn't really get fouled on his drives. It's amazing but true. And who else on the team attacked the rim? Who else is capable of attacking the rim besides Durant and the help was easily getting in position whenever he touched the ball (can't say Harden bc he's MIA).

Harden didn't finish, but he took 4 shots inside the paint as opposed to 6 outside it. I'm not saying all he did was attack but it also can't be said he didn't attack at all. It's unbelievable how shook he was, though. He couldn't do ANYTHING well last night.

I'm going by more than the numbers. If you look back through the last 10-15 pages of this thread, I was commenting on the game from start to finish. OKC's guards/wings took 21 shots at the rim, MIA's took 16. Both teams had 4 made FG at the rim, so the majority were coming off of drives. Surely some of those were in transition, but the vast majority were in half-court sets. There weren't many FB situations last night.

[wwharton]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Harden didn't finish, but he took 4 shots inside the paint as opposed to 6 outside it. I'm not saying all he did was attack but it also can't be said he didn't attack at all. It's unbelievable how shook he was, though. He couldn't do ANYTHING well last night.

I'm going by more than the numbers. If you look back through the last 10-15 pages of this thread, I was commenting on the game from start to finish. OKC's guards/wings took 21 shots at the rim, MIA's took 16. Both teams had 4 made FG at the rim, so the majority were coming off of drives. Surely some of those were in transition, but the vast majority were in half-court sets. There weren't many FB situations last night.

Didn't mean to suggest YOU were only looking at the numbers. I was just making a statement that the numbers don't tell the entire story in this case. Westbrook simply wasn't getting fouled even though he was attacking... and again, nobody else was attacking. Their entire defensive strategy was built around rotating 2 guys behind whoever guarded Durant, crowd him to force him to drive and have players in position to take a charge and/or scare him into getting called for one. I can't go play by play and I'm sure there were a couple of no calls that probably were fouls on drives, but the make up of the Thunder combined with Miami's defensive strategy simply resulted in a game where they didn't get to the line much. And that's not excusing a lot of bone head officiating in the game... but the FT discrepancy doesn't really tell much of a story about the officials of last night's game imo.

[Paul Pierce_OS]

Damn, I'd hate to see what bad looks like.

GIFSoup


Sent from Celtics Nation

[slimm44]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Didn't mean to suggest YOU were only looking at the numbers. I was just making a statement that the numbers don't tell the entire story in this case. Westbrook simply wasn't getting fouled even though he was attacking... and again, nobody else was attacking. Their entire defensive strategy was built around rotating 2 guys behind whoever guarded Durant, crowd him to force him to drive and have players in position to take a charge and/or scare him into getting called for one. I can't go play by play and I'm sure there were a couple of no calls that probably were fouls on drives, but the make up of the Thunder combined with Miami's defensive strategy simply resulted in a game where they didn't get to the line much. And that's not excusing a lot of bone head officiating in the game... but the FT discrepancy doesn't really tell much of a story about the officials of last night's game imo.

My bad, bro. I should probably stop talking about FTA and the refs. I've been completely organized by it since last night.

[ZB9]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

You mean how Miami last year ran through Philly, Boston, Chicago lost a inferior Mavs team after they were rolling? I guess upsets never happen?

Dallas beat Miami 4 out of the 6 times they played last season...the only two losses being by 2 and 6 points

In what alternate universe were the Mavs "an inferior team" to Miami

[TajDeni]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

some of my commentary of whats going on in the finals.

Harden is shook-daddy! and heres what i think is the reason why...

Spoiler

basically to me harden is a solid player, an above avg starter type player but not an elite level player, but on the okc team he comes off the bench which pretty much means that usually he's feasting on real bench type players and he's clearly better than them. im not saying that he'd be a scrub as a starter because he wouldnt but to me a very large part of his success revolves around him coming off the bench.

but now in the finals because miami doesnt really have any depth and has basically vice-gripped their rotations he's now facing real elite level starters when he's in the game. and he's not living up to that challenge, quite frankly i believe he's like i said shook. its a whole other level when dwade, lebron, and battie are your opponent with everything on the line. harden is having to actually spend energy on defense. i dont know if its conditioning or what but he clearly cant play both ends of the floor at the same time.

last night he missed a layup where the entire sequence was just bizarre. late in the game you could just see thru the tv that he wanted no parts of the ball in the deciding moments. he has been a tremendous disappoint so far in the finals and im not sure what his contract situation is but if he was up to talk extention next yr he has just hurt is own cause. only good news is it aint over yet so he has a chance to turn it around still

----------------
2 many fans and national media are giving durant to much of a pass

Spoiler

ppl say westbrook needs to get durant the ball, but i see westbrook trying to get durant the ball and he cant seem to get open sometimes. also for such an elite scorer, he has too many stretches where i just dont feel he's aggressive enuf. you see heres what i dont get about durant getting denied the ball. he's 6'10, why cant he just go to the kobe move of getting open of putting the guy on your back, sticking your hand in the air, having your teammate lob the ball up high and grabbing the ball with your extended hand. nobody denies kobe the ball, as durant is way taller than most his defenders, i just dont understand why this move doesnt work 4 him all the time. i just dont get it. sometimes he's not getting the ball because sometimes he doesnt work hard enuf to get it.

---------------

if westbrook is hitting that free-throw line mid-range shot he is completely unguardable.

Spoiler

i personally think he's every bit as good as durant (each in their own way) and ppl need to start viewing him as an equal partner rather than a sidekick. he had a brain freeze at the end which is unfortunate. but really outside of that he was just a joy to watch. he's won me over. im a fan.

------
Lebron, Lebron

Spoiler

not a lebron guy persay, but win/lose im happy to see him finally embrace his demons (free throws, wanting the ball late, taking the shots when he's being guarded 1 on 1 make or miss) in these finals and face them standing on both feet. he truly has been all around spectacular.

all in all this has been a great series to watch

[JODYE]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Just as it's completely irrational to blame an entire loss on officiating, it's just as irrational to completely discredit it from having any effect on the game whatsoever.

In this series more importantly, it definitely has, and to say that Westbrook was doing a great job avoiding contact last night is hilarious.
If they called it equally, Russell would have been at the line 20 times last night. You don't even have to touch Wade in the lane and the whistles start blowing. There have been 4-5 instances where Wade has been merely grazed, nor touched at all and he has been sent to the line, and that's just on layup attempts alone. Completely ignoring the times where he jumps into guys, where according to rules, your not allowed to do anymore. Same goes for LeBron.

You're telling me a guy (Kevin Durant) that averages less that 2 fouls a game in a 5 YEAR CAREER, has been in foul trouble 3 straight games and can't stay on the floor? This guy is an incredibly intelligent player and good decision maker, on both ends of the ball, but now all of a sudden he's a hack and poor defender? Come on.

The officiating has totally effected the way the Thunder play on defense. They are hesitant to even press on the perimeter because of the fear of getting called for a foul. You've seen it the last 2 games, if you've actually watched. You can't just compare the numbers and say it has been fair.

Or as I saw previously, "The Refs didn't make the Thunder shoot 18% from three..." which is completely short sighted and shooting percentages from 3pt area don't determine winners of games.

Do the Thunder make some bonehead plays? Of course, they are young. Should they clean that up. Yes. Is this something that they have done all year? Yes, and were arguably the best second half team in the league, that time after time were able to make the adjustments to win games on a consistent basis. Have the Heat been playing better as of late? Absolutely. They still don't play as crisply as the Spurs and it's nothing the Thunder weren't prepared for, if you watched Game 1, where there was an assist on over half of Miami's made baskets.

But to be a fan of the game of basketball, and to sit here and feel the officiating has been fair, is absolutely baffling to me. I would think sensible fans as the ones on this forum, would have some respectable viewers that can admit when something isn't right, as this series has been. I understand wanting to avoid the "blame the refs" talk etc, in which it usually creates a trolling situation where people take it way too far. I've seen this happen on other forums I've been a part of. Which is why I'm trying to be as respectful and mature as I can about such a touchy subject. But in some instances, you just can't do it. I've watched and played basketball competitively for over 20 years now, and there have been few instances where I have seen as one sided officiating as there has been in this series. I can't remember one time, where the Thunder have gotten a 50/50 call to go their way. Not one. This is a feeling that is being echoed by NUMEROUS sports journalists and reporters that are covering this series.

Like I said, I have the utmost respect for LeBron James. I rooted for him ever since he came in the league, and feel that a majority of the criticism he receives is completely and utterly unfair. Probably the most scrutinized sports star we've ever had in the league, and a majority of the time for no good reason. Really, I'll be happy that he gets a ring in the end, because it will silence some of the critics, but I didn't want to see him get it this way. Just blatantly handed to him on a silver platter. I wanted to see a series that showcased these two players, and a real battle. Not what we are witnessing now.

At the end of the day, I want to see good competitive basketball, and not a series that's marred by a leagues desperation to give it's self proclaimed king a ring so it can make more money, because it senses the field is going to lap him. That honor should be earned.

I know that people want to get off this topic, so I will leave it at this.

[Scott812313]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

The same bc Westbrook drove with the intention of avoiding contact and did a good job of it.

Since when does Wade have to be contacted to be rewarded with FT's? Dude get's so many phantom calls.

The officiating has definitely had an effect on this series, that's not debatable. OKC has to completely change the way they play, at both ends, out of fear of picking up bogus fouls. Also, as a young team, the feeling of "getting the shaft" from the officials, is harder to shake than it would be for a veteran laden group. Miami has made plays to win these games, no doubt, and gotten ridiculous contributions from their role players, whereas OKC has gotten next to nothing from anyone but KD,WB and Collison.

[NINJAK2]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Dwyane Wade... smh at those glasses man.

LOL. I must admit I liked those..It's a different world he lives in..

[kayfngee]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Dallas beat Miami 4 out of the 6 times they played last season...the only two losses being by 2 and 6 points

In what alternate universe were the Mavs "an inferior team" to Miami

LeBron didn't look like he was in that series though either. That makes a difference.

[kayfngee]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

Since when does Wade have to be contacted to be rewarded with FT's? Dude get's so many phantom calls.

Wade definitely gets phantom calls, but he also drives looking for contact rather than trying to avoid contact. When you constantly go into contact you are going to get more calls by forcing the ref's hand. Even that won't get you a whistle every time though.

[kayfngee]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

One more thing. Not as many of Westbrook's shots were at the rim as most people think. 19 of his 32 shots were jumpers from 8 feet out or longer. Of the shots at or around the rim, he missed four. Watching those replays, he might have been bumped once. Most of the time when he took it to the whole he either got their uncontested (which was the majority of the time) or missed when help came over.

[Vast]

Re: ****2012 NBA FINALS DISCUSSION THREAD****

I wonder how many times they would of sent Wade to the line if he was driving like Westbrook was last night ?

One million!!!