2014 Off-Season Thread

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I like Kendall, hope he finds a home somewhere

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The only problem I have with Wiggins is that he has history of being inconsistent.

No rookie has a "history", good or bad.

I think most people on the internet criticizes the Cavs for considering the Love for Wiggings trade talk as if Love is an average player who's nearing 30. Dude is only 25 years old, and is easily the best rebounder and stretch big in the NBA. He's also an elite scorer, and even though he has played on crappy teams, if you watch the games you know the guy is legit. Wiggins might have a lot of potential, but when you have an elite player available you have to sacrifice that in order to get him. If the Wolves ever gave up Love without Wiggins or Thompson in the deals, they'd be saps and the fact now is that several teams that are competing for the Love trade means the offers are getting better whereas before teams were holding off.

Also, if the Cavs just decide to wait for Love to be a free agent, that might never happen as there are several interested teams in making a trade for him on teams he'd consider resigning for, specially considering that its Cleveland. It just doesn't make any sense to let luck play its course considering that you can get arguably a top 5-10 guy right now instead of waiting to see if Wiggins develop.

I do however believe that Wiggins will end up being great, but he's not a slam dunk like Kobe Bryant or Lebron. Dude is showing that he is ready to play, but there's still major holes in his game that will give headaches to a team that's trying to win now.

No, that's not what "most people on the internet" are saying. Hell, many people have commented all through this thread and not one has hinted at Love being old or not a star.

And from the looks of it GS is just trolling Cleveland. I would love it if someone just leaked that Cleveland was willing to trade Wiggins to get GS to include Klay. But there aren't "several" teams competing now... it's the same two that have been being talked about, GS and Cleveland. The only real news is Love saying he'd agree to resign with GS. If he hadn't said that, Minnesota would be completely backed into a corner.

BTW, Kobe was traded for Divac. There's your slam dunk. The Hornets would be kicking themselves for the way that turned out but Kobe made it clear where he wanted to be. Real life trades aren't always fair when teams hands are forced. GS helps Minnesota but there still not in a great position to be demanding equal talent in return for Love.

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Oh I get you, I just don't see the similaritys between the Cav's this year and in '09

but well revisit if the trade actually goes down

All he's saying is that in '09 the Cavs could've gotten better if Lebron had made it clear that he was staying long term.

[SPTO]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

This is a pretty interesting Moment in Time. One can reasonably make the argument that the Cavs would regret trading Wiggins but at the same time it's a crapshoot with draft picks so one never knows. The other thing is this, Love is not going to stay in Cleveland long term if he and Lebron were to win a championship within 2 years because well, Lebron could very well up and leave when his contract is up and Love would leave too. The Cavs would therefore be right back where they are here.

This is a situation where either Love or the Cavs are going to have to make a leap of faith for Love, that'd be to believe that Lebron would stick around and he signs a long term deal with Cleveland and for the Cavs they have to believe that Love would be a better player long term than Wiggins could ever be.

Personally for me, it's one of those risks that is very tempting. Let's put it this way, getting a championship would wash away any bitterness if the team goes down the toilet in 3 years but at the same time I can't help but feel like if Cleveland does this, there'll be regret to the highest degree.

Either way, I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the Cavaliers Front Office and Dan Gilbert.

[JazzMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The way I see it, bringing in Love for Wiggins would help CLE. The goal is to win now, isn't it? LeBron isn't 23. He's not developing. He's almost on the back 9 of his career. By bringing in a guy like Love, it allows LeBron to finally get what he wanted when he went to Miami in the 1st place: scoring help. If Love goes to CLE for Wiggins, I'd think he'd actually be the 1st option while LeBron drops down to 20 PPG, but up near 9 assists. Take on more of a facilitating role just like he's always wanted to do.

Why take the risk on Wiggins, who might not even become a star in this league for all we know, when you can bring in a top 10 player in the league who's only 25 and has arguably the best skill set to compliment LeBron?

[23]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Depends if they care about now or the future

That's what it boils down to.

[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The Wolves have to realize, that depending on what year the pick is, it means nothing because the Cavs will most likely be good enough to where that will be a real late 1st rounder.

The Wolves have to really think about who they think Wiggins can be. Is he going to be in the realm of a McGrady type player, or is he going to evolve into Gerald Green? At this point, we don't really know. Same with Bennett, does he evolve into Larry Johnson, or Glen Davis? It also depends on what they are trying to do. Are they trying to win now, or hold out on winning down the line, because the Cavs deal puts them in the 20 win range right away.

From the Cavs perspective, the deal makes no sense. Especially without seeing Wiggins and co. play with LeBron first. This trade will still be there in January. The Cavs hold all the cards in this scenario. They need to just ride it out and decide later as they monitor how Wiggins and Bennett progress.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I wouldn't hesitate at all on trading Wiggins for Kevin Love, were talking about a HOF type of player the way he's been playing.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

It's funny that people want to hate on Love by saying that he's never won anything, he's not a winner, etc but they will excuse Kyrie Irving for not winning because he's already on LeBron's team. If Love goes to Cleveland, you can excuse it for him as well, damn hypocrites.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

It's funny that people want to hate on Love by saying that he's never won anything, he's not a winner, etc but they will excuse Kyrie Irving for not winning because he's already on LeBron's team. If Love goes to Cleveland, you can excuse it for him as well, damn hypocrites.

This doesn't even make sense man. First, it's not hating on the dude to state a fact. He hasn't won anything. Second, there's no comparing that to Kyrie, dude has been in the league 3 years compared to Love's 6. Of course expectations on their levels of success so far are gonna be different. You're reaching here.


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[jeebs9]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

No rookie has a "history", good or bad.

And I totally get what your saying. But he does. That's the bottom line of his weakness. It happen in high school and college. Games where you wondered how he was the rated the number one player. His last college game was a great example of this. He scored 4 (or was it 8 points). It doesn't get bigger than March Madness.

That's why I was always afraid of the whole LeBron and him playing together. I just feel some players like him (Wiggins). Need to lose early in their career to make them hungry. But I might be totally wrong.

But I agree with the outlook... Do they want to win now.. or Win later. I think all the Cavs need at this point is Veteran big men (off the bench) and Ray Allen. I think that would be a great starting point for them.

edit: I would let them play it out first. I think Kyrie will be the one who has to change his game the most of all the players.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

This doesn't even make sense man. First, it's not hating on the dude to state a fact. He hasn't won anything. Second, there's no comparing that to Kyrie, dude has been in the league 3 years compared to Love's 6. Of course expectations on their levels of success so far are gonna be different. You're reaching here.


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It's not reaching at all; Love has had the unfortunate luck of being stuck in the western conference and being on terrible teams. Minnesota still won 7 more games than Cleveland despite being in the more elite WC this year.

Let's not pretend Love has ever had a good team before, because he hasn't. This past year was the best team he's been on and they were a great one-way team. They likely would have had a decent seed if they were in the EC.

[Boltman]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The 2014 Love or Wiggins thread lol.

If you're starting a team up and you already have Irving & LBJ, who do you take as your third?

Love or Wiggins?

The debate goes on & on.

[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Cleveland also had several key players out for an extended time as well, so their record really isn't indicative of the talent that was on that team.

King is right, at this point, he has been a really impressive stat stuffer, however he hasn't lead the Wolves to anything significant and guys have definitely done more with less. Garnett is the perfect example of this.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The Wolves have to realize, that depending on what year the pick is, it means nothing because the Cavs will most likely be good enough to where that will be a real late 1st rounder.

The Wolves have to really think about who they think Wiggins can be. Is he going to be in the realm of a McGrady type player, or is he going to evolve into Gerald Green? At this point, we don't really know. Same with Bennett, does he evolve into Larry Johnson, or Glen Davis? It also depends on what they are trying to do. Are they trying to win now, or hold out on winning down the line, because the Cavs deal puts them in the 20 win range right away.

From the Cavs perspective, the deal makes no sense. Especially without seeing Wiggins and co. play with LeBron first. This trade will still be there in January. The Cavs hold all the cards in this scenario. They need to just ride it out and decide later as they monitor how Wiggins and Bennett progress.

Exactly.

There's no pressure or need for the Cavs to make any deal right now at all, same for the Wolves. I seen one or two posters in here bring up "You can't wait it out because he might not be there, so you HAVE to make it". The Cavs(as currently constructed)don't need him right now and will probably be fine without him and are most likely going to get one of those Top 3 spots in the East.

As for Wiggins, I think his ceiling would be a lot higher in Cleveland than it would be in Minnesota but that's mainly because I don't trust Flip Saunders when it comes to developing young players. In Cleveland, you don't need him to be another Lebron or MJ like another poster mentioned on this team when he's going to be the 3rd option starting out.

People bringing up the "Cavs need to make this move because they're trying to win now"? Where are you getting this "win now" thing from? Wasn't one of the very things Lebron mentioned in his letter "patience" and that he knew they were still a year away? What's the rush in making this deal now, especially when we all know he's not going to leave Cleveland any time soon?

Let's not pretend Love has ever had a good team before, because he hasn't.

And Kyrie hasn't either.

Love has had the unfortunate luck of being stuck in the western conference and being on terrible teams.

As far as being on terrible teams, you can say the same for Kyrie as well. The "he plays in the Western Conference" thing only goes so far when you're 6-7 years into your career, especially when considering there have been other players with similar or less talent than Love taking their teams to the playoffs in the West since he's been in the league.