2014 Off-Season Thread
Nobody knows for sure what kind of numbers Love would have, what people are saying is that it's highly unlikely he gets to join Cleveland with Kyrie, LeBron, Waiters/Wiggins, and still take 19 shots per game. Regardless of how great of a player he is he's going to individually take a hit because currently he has a team built around him where in Cleveland he'll be a piece to a team built around LeBron.. Whoever said he will average 17 and 7 could be completely wrong, but it's no worse than the people who act like nothing will change and he'll still be at 25 and 12.
I don't really think anyone believes he's just "another guy".. I think everyone against the trade still acknowledges how great of a player Kevin Love is individually.. But if he's not a great fit all your doing is overpaying for a big name on the back of a jersey.
Miami did the same with Bosh. It worked out for them but we still wonder if they could have been better off splitting that money. For the price of Bosh they could have paid 3 starters to pair with James and Wade.. Or a PF and C duo that together was much better than Bosh+Joel or Bosh+Battier, and actually could rebound..
It's fairly easy to play 3rd or 4th fiddle behind great players and hit open shots.. For example, Ryan Anderson scores just as many points and grabs just as many rebounds as Chris Bosh despite coming off the bench and never even being close to all-star caliber, much less "big 3" status. David Lee is up there with Bosh, Thad Young, Paul Millsap, Nene, Davis West, Markieff Morris, Faried.. Bosh is better than all of these guys individually, some of them by a huge margin. But when your role gets reduced and you're no longer "the guy" output vs. output can almost always be replaced by someone at a much cheaper cost.
Will Love dip as much as Bosh? It's hard to tell, I personally believe he would still be a double digit rebounder, but his scoring would fall.. Kyrie and LeBron I would expect to have similar shot attempts as Wade and LeBron, while Wiggins/Waiters and Varejao would likely have a bigger offensive role than Bibby/Mario or Joel/Battier ever did.. It's a lot of shots to go around. We can't expect all of them to just pick up exactly where they left off last season.
And some people seem content with trading away multiple future first round picks, because they will be "late round" picks.. Yet in the past decade or so we've saw Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Luis Scola, Monta Ellis, Marcin Gortat, Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, Isaiah Thomas, and Chandler Parsons all get drafted in the 2ND ROUND.. And San Antonio just won a championship with only a 3rd year player winning finals MVP who was taken 15th, and a member of their "big 3" in Manu who was a 2nd rounder as well.. Draft picks hold a tons of value, whether it's to trade to rebuilding teams, trade up in the draft, or keep to gamble on young talent.. There is no reason to unload multiple picks unless you have to. Because if Cleveland happened to stumble upon a Marcin Gortat or Michael Redd in this years draft they would be loaded for the next 5-6 years.
IMO the only reason to trade so much youth, potential, and depth for a guy like Love is if you're a team who desperately needs a "go to" or franchise player, or even a true "side kick" guy.. Cleveland doesn't need that, nor do they need the extra star power to just add extra star power.
And like I've said many times this entire discussion would be much different if Love was a lock down defender, an elite rim protector, or really just 7+ foot tall center with a bigger post arsenal.. But he's not. His biggest strengths are stretching the floor and rebounding and Cleveland definitely won't be hurting in those areas.. Doesn't matter if he's a top 3 caliber player player or a top 50. It's all about the fit and price, right now I think the price for Love is much too high for his fit in Cleveland.
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Nobody knows for sure what kind of numbers Love would have, what people are saying is that it's highly unlikely he gets to join Cleveland with Kyrie, LeBron, Waiters/Wiggins, and still take 19 shots per game. Regardless of how great of a player he is he's going to individually take a hit because currently he has a team built around him where in Cleveland he'll be a piece to a team built around LeBron.. Whoever said he will average 17 and 7 could be completely wrong, but it's no worse than the people who act like nothing will change and he'll still be at 25 and 12.
I don't really think anyone believes he's just "another guy".. I think everyone against the trade still acknowledges how great of a player Kevin Love is individually.. But if he's not a great fit all your doing is overpaying for a big name on the back of a jersey.
Miami did the same with Bosh. It worked out for them but we still wonder if they could have been better off splitting that money. For the price of Bosh they could have paid 3 starters to pair with James and Wade.. Or a PF and C duo that together was much better than Bosh+Joel or Bosh+Battier, and actually could rebound..
It's fairly easy to play 3rd or 4th fiddle behind great players and hit open shots.. For example, Ryan Anderson scores just as many points and grabs just as many rebounds as Chris Bosh despite coming off the bench and never even being close to all-star caliber, much less "big 3" status. David Lee is up there with Bosh, Thad Young, Paul Millsap, Nene, Davis West, Markieff Morris, Faried.. Bosh is better than all of these guys individually, some of them by a huge margin. But when your role gets reduced and you're no longer "the guy" output vs. output can almost always be replaced by someone at a much cheaper cost.
Will Love dip as much as Bosh? It's hard to tell, I personally believe he would still be a double digit rebounder, but his scoring would fall.. Kyrie and LeBron I would expect to have similar shot attempts as Wade and LeBron, while Wiggins/Waiters and Varejao would likely have a bigger offensive role than Bibby/Mario or Joel/Battier ever did.. It's a lot of shots to go around. We can't expect all of them to just pick up exactly where they left off last season.
And some people seem content with trading away multiple future first round picks, because they will be "late round" picks.. Yet in the past decade or so we've saw Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Luis Scola, Monta Ellis, Marcin Gortat, Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, Isaiah Thomas, and Chandler Parsons all get drafted in the 2ND ROUND.. And San Antonio just won a championship with only a 3rd year player winning finals MVP who was taken 15th, and a member of their "big 3" in Manu who was a 2nd rounder as well.. Draft picks hold a tons of value, whether it's to trade to rebuilding teams, trade up in the draft, or keep to gamble on young talent.. There is no reason to unload multiple picks unless you have to. Because if Cleveland happened to stumble upon a Marcin Gortat or Michael Redd in this years draft they would be loaded for the next 5-6 years.
IMO the only reason to trade so much youth, potential, and depth for a guy like Love is if you're a team who desperately needs a "go to" or franchise player, or even a true "side kick" guy.. Cleveland doesn't need that, nor do they need the extra star power to just add extra star power.
And like I've said many times this entire discussion would be much different if Love was a lock down defender, an elite rim protector, or really just 7+ foot tall center with a bigger post arsenal.. But he's not. His biggest strengths are stretching the floor and rebounding and Cleveland definitely won't be hurting in those areas.. Doesn't matter if he's a top 3 caliber player player or a top 50. It's all about the fit and price, right now I think the price for Love is much too high for his fit in Cleveland.
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