Kobe's 'Bulls'?

**SportsTop** · 07-12-2004, 02:10 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think Kobe's understanding of the game is poor. Jordans wasn't so great as a young player , but we see how he became a master of the game later on. So far Kobe has been disapointing because of his inability to win enough alongside shaq with a heavily favored team.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, this comment does make about zero sense. Kobe is either being courted by, or wished for by more than half the teams in the league and it is because he doens't have an understanding of the game. All of those GM's must be idiots....well, Kupcake is an idiot.

I can tell by your post that you are young and the only time you ever saw Jordan play in his 20's were the replays on Classic Sports Network.

That doesn't count. You can't base an assessment of Jordan off of what you heard or saw in highlight reels.

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 03:18 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

OK. Before I continue with this argument I want to say that I'm 31 years old and been a Bulls fan since 1984. I can remember back in the days when Bulls tickets we're $4.00. I remember because our 5th grade class went on a field trip to a afternoon game. Bus was $2.00 and the tickets were $4.00. With the total of the trip being $6.00. And I can also remember the horrific roster they had back in the days with Orlando Woolridge, Quintin Daley, Dave Corzin and Ennis "Mo" Whatley. So you can say I've been there for the good and bad times.

OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

When I talk about 'understanding of the game' I'm talking about understanding how to improve as a player AND helping the team win games. Along this road of understanding the game comes adversity and doubt. As you know, MJ had lots of them since he came to the league and has overcome them.
Here are some of the things that MJ had to endure over his career:
1986 - The injury year. People questions if he could come back as explosive as he was in his rookie year. RESULT: Came back in time for the playoffs and put up 63 against the eventual champion Boston Celtics.
1988 - Jordan's questionable defensive game. RESULT: Was the defensive player of the year in 88 and was on the all-defensive team 9 times.
1989 - Jordan shoots too much. Doesn't get his team involved. RESULT: Mid-season of 1989 season Doug Collins moved Jordan to the point and he was 10th in the league in assists with 8.0 apg. Most important, he lead the 6th place Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals.
1990 - Jordan can't shoot the three. RESULT: NBA defenses opened up a can of worms with this strategy. Jordan went from hitting only 27 3pt shots in 89 to hitting 92 in 1990.
1991 - Jordan will never be on a championship team. RESULT: 6 titles, nuff said!

OK. Here is some of Kobe adversities:
1998 - Wild erratic shot selections. RESULT: He improved his scoring average every year from 97-2001.
2000 - Kobe plays NO defense. RESULT: Upon the arrival of Phil Jackson and his first NBA Championship in 2000 Kobe get first all-defensive honors. He achived this feat 3 times.

MJ had no choice but to overcome and understand the game better than Kobe because MJ never had a Shaq type player on his team. Which leads to the most important argument: Kobe has never been the leader of his team. Since DAY ONE Jordan has been the leader of the Bulls so you can say that Jordan has lead the Bulls to 6 championships. When you talk about the Lakers it's Shaq&Kobe that lead the Lakers to 3 titles. And I even question that because Shaq has been the Finals MVP in 3 of those championships.

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 03:18 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

OK. Before I continue with this argument I want to say that I'm 31 years old and been a Bulls fan since 1984. I can remember back in the days when Bulls tickets we're $4.00. I remember because our 5th grade class went on a field trip to a afternoon game. Bus was $2.00 and the tickets were $4.00. With the total of the trip being $6.00. And I can also remember the horrific roster they had back in the days with Orlando Woolridge, Quintin Daley, Dave Corzin and Ennis "Mo" Whatley. So you can say I've been there for the good and bad times.

OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

When I talk about 'understanding of the game' I'm talking about understanding how to improve as a player AND helping the team win games. Along this road of understanding the game comes adversity and doubt. As you know, MJ had lots of them since he came to the league and has overcome them.
Here are some of the things that MJ had to endure over his career:
1986 - The injury year. People questions if he could come back as explosive as he was in his rookie year. RESULT: Came back in time for the playoffs and put up 63 against the eventual champion Boston Celtics.
1988 - Jordan's questionable defensive game. RESULT: Was the defensive player of the year in 88 and was on the all-defensive team 9 times.
1989 - Jordan shoots too much. Doesn't get his team involved. RESULT: Mid-season of 1989 season Doug Collins moved Jordan to the point and he was 10th in the league in assists with 8.0 apg. Most important, he lead the 6th place Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals.
1990 - Jordan can't shoot the three. RESULT: NBA defenses opened up a can of worms with this strategy. Jordan went from hitting only 27 3pt shots in 89 to hitting 92 in 1990.
1991 - Jordan will never be on a championship team. RESULT: 6 titles, nuff said!

OK. Here is some of Kobe adversities:
1998 - Wild erratic shot selections. RESULT: He improved his scoring average every year from 97-2001.
2000 - Kobe plays NO defense. RESULT: Upon the arrival of Phil Jackson and his first NBA Championship in 2000 Kobe get first all-defensive honors. He achived this feat 3 times.

MJ had no choice but to overcome and understand the game better than Kobe because MJ never had a Shaq type player on his team. Which leads to the most important argument: Kobe has never been the leader of his team. Since DAY ONE Jordan has been the leader of the Bulls so you can say that Jordan has lead the Bulls to 6 championships. When you talk about the Lakers it's Shaq&Kobe that lead the Lakers to 3 titles. And I even question that because Shaq has been the Finals MVP in 3 of those championships.

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 03:18 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

OK. Before I continue with this argument I want to say that I'm 31 years old and been a Bulls fan since 1984. I can remember back in the days when Bulls tickets we're $4.00. I remember because our 5th grade class went on a field trip to a afternoon game. Bus was $2.00 and the tickets were $4.00. With the total of the trip being $6.00. And I can also remember the horrific roster they had back in the days with Orlando Woolridge, Quintin Daley, Dave Corzin and Ennis "Mo" Whatley. So you can say I've been there for the good and bad times.

OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

When I talk about 'understanding of the game' I'm talking about understanding how to improve as a player AND helping the team win games. Along this road of understanding the game comes adversity and doubt. As you know, MJ had lots of them since he came to the league and has overcome them.
Here are some of the things that MJ had to endure over his career:
1986 - The injury year. People questions if he could come back as explosive as he was in his rookie year. RESULT: Came back in time for the playoffs and put up 63 against the eventual champion Boston Celtics.
1988 - Jordan's questionable defensive game. RESULT: Was the defensive player of the year in 88 and was on the all-defensive team 9 times.
1989 - Jordan shoots too much. Doesn't get his team involved. RESULT: Mid-season of 1989 season Doug Collins moved Jordan to the point and he was 10th in the league in assists with 8.0 apg. Most important, he lead the 6th place Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals.
1990 - Jordan can't shoot the three. RESULT: NBA defenses opened up a can of worms with this strategy. Jordan went from hitting only 27 3pt shots in 89 to hitting 92 in 1990.
1991 - Jordan will never be on a championship team. RESULT: 6 titles, nuff said!

OK. Here is some of Kobe adversities:
1998 - Wild erratic shot selections. RESULT: He improved his scoring average every year from 97-2001.
2000 - Kobe plays NO defense. RESULT: Upon the arrival of Phil Jackson and his first NBA Championship in 2000 Kobe get first all-defensive honors. He achived this feat 3 times.

MJ had no choice but to overcome and understand the game better than Kobe because MJ never had a Shaq type player on his team. Which leads to the most important argument: Kobe has never been the leader of his team. Since DAY ONE Jordan has been the leader of the Bulls so you can say that Jordan has lead the Bulls to 6 championships. When you talk about the Lakers it's Shaq&Kobe that lead the Lakers to 3 titles. And I even question that because Shaq has been the Finals MVP in 3 of those championships.

**SportsTop** · 07-12-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

**SportsTop** · 07-12-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

**SportsTop** · 07-12-2004, 03:33 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

**sonofsiam** · 07-12-2004, 04:11 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW ignore KDRE.

Unfortunatley, he's a 12 year old kid who is obsessed with T Mac. Now, that's fine and all. However, it means that he has some sort of insane bias against Kobe. (Theory = Kobe and Mac are rivals, you know how kids are with that [censored]).

<hr /></blockquote>

Is there a reason you guys cannot post intelligent post without mentioning my name. I haven't said a word about Tmac, and just because I like him does not mean that what I post is invalid about Kobe. I have never liked Kobe, period. When I didn't like Mac I didn't like Kobe. If you want to tell the man to ignore me, dont mention my name in a post. PM him. I can assure you I am much older than you are, and being that Kobe plays for a team the reps my city I can say what I feel just like the rest of you can.

Hit your own ignore button if you care not to read my post, but dont come in post after post attacking me because I dont agree with you about Kobe. Some of you homers are hilarious.

<hr /></blockquote>

You dive into every post with the same rhetoric...

I am 33, got a wife, have watched basketball for 20 plus years.

I really hope your about 12, otherwise the T Mac stuff and things like jumping on the other poster and calling him a "rookier" just because he's got a different opinion to yours is pretty weak. Especially as he odviously knows the game.

If you had the ability to read, you'd see I don't even like Kobe.

What I said, and what the point of the thread was supposed to be, is he now has HIS OWN team. As a basketball fan, it's going to be damm interesting to see what happens.

BTW If people from Rudy T to Tim Duncan say Kobe is the most talented guy in the league, WTF should I somehow believe you know more than they do?

**sonofsiam** · 07-12-2004, 04:11 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW ignore KDRE.

Unfortunatley, he's a 12 year old kid who is obsessed with T Mac. Now, that's fine and all. However, it means that he has some sort of insane bias against Kobe. (Theory = Kobe and Mac are rivals, you know how kids are with that [censored]).

<hr /></blockquote>

Is there a reason you guys cannot post intelligent post without mentioning my name. I haven't said a word about Tmac, and just because I like him does not mean that what I post is invalid about Kobe. I have never liked Kobe, period. When I didn't like Mac I didn't like Kobe. If you want to tell the man to ignore me, dont mention my name in a post. PM him. I can assure you I am much older than you are, and being that Kobe plays for a team the reps my city I can say what I feel just like the rest of you can.

Hit your own ignore button if you care not to read my post, but dont come in post after post attacking me because I dont agree with you about Kobe. Some of you homers are hilarious.

<hr /></blockquote>

You dive into every post with the same rhetoric...

I am 33, got a wife, have watched basketball for 20 plus years.

I really hope your about 12, otherwise the T Mac stuff and things like jumping on the other poster and calling him a "rookier" just because he's got a different opinion to yours is pretty weak. Especially as he odviously knows the game.

If you had the ability to read, you'd see I don't even like Kobe.

What I said, and what the point of the thread was supposed to be, is he now has HIS OWN team. As a basketball fan, it's going to be damm interesting to see what happens.

BTW If people from Rudy T to Tim Duncan say Kobe is the most talented guy in the league, WTF should I somehow believe you know more than they do?

**sonofsiam** · 07-12-2004, 04:11 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BTW ignore KDRE.

Unfortunatley, he's a 12 year old kid who is obsessed with T Mac. Now, that's fine and all. However, it means that he has some sort of insane bias against Kobe. (Theory = Kobe and Mac are rivals, you know how kids are with that [censored]).

<hr /></blockquote>

Is there a reason you guys cannot post intelligent post without mentioning my name. I haven't said a word about Tmac, and just because I like him does not mean that what I post is invalid about Kobe. I have never liked Kobe, period. When I didn't like Mac I didn't like Kobe. If you want to tell the man to ignore me, dont mention my name in a post. PM him. I can assure you I am much older than you are, and being that Kobe plays for a team the reps my city I can say what I feel just like the rest of you can.

Hit your own ignore button if you care not to read my post, but dont come in post after post attacking me because I dont agree with you about Kobe. Some of you homers are hilarious.

<hr /></blockquote>

You dive into every post with the same rhetoric...

I am 33, got a wife, have watched basketball for 20 plus years.

I really hope your about 12, otherwise the T Mac stuff and things like jumping on the other poster and calling him a "rookier" just because he's got a different opinion to yours is pretty weak. Especially as he odviously knows the game.

If you had the ability to read, you'd see I don't even like Kobe.

What I said, and what the point of the thread was supposed to be, is he now has HIS OWN team. As a basketball fan, it's going to be damm interesting to see what happens.

BTW If people from Rudy T to Tim Duncan say Kobe is the most talented guy in the league, WTF should I somehow believe you know more than they do?

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Jordan had loads of adversity to overcome since he first step on a NBA court, which forced him to learn the game much faster than Kobe. Kobe was a high schooler coming out of the draft where he wasn't expected to do much his first 3 years. So Kobe was never forced to be the player he is in his first couple of years. His team was so good they didn't need him to step up right away. Where Jordan had to step up or else the Bulls would have won just 10-20 games. And Kobe's time being on a championship team doesn't merit his understanding of the game better than MJ. Horry has been on championship teams most of his career. So there goes that argument.

Lastly, being a leader means everything! Take a look at the top players in NBA history with championship resumes: Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell. These guys lead their respective teams to the championship. Albeit, they were on great teams but when it came down to it they were the major reason why their teams won. Jordan is in this class. Kobe is not.

And as I stated before, in the Lakers 3 titles Shaq has all 3 Finals MVP. Jordan has all 6 of the Bulls finals mvp's. Kobe has none, regular season nor Finals MVP. Someone with an understanding of the game should at least have some hardwood to prove it.

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Jordan had loads of adversity to overcome since he first step on a NBA court, which forced him to learn the game much faster than Kobe. Kobe was a high schooler coming out of the draft where he wasn't expected to do much his first 3 years. So Kobe was never forced to be the player he is in his first couple of years. His team was so good they didn't need him to step up right away. Where Jordan had to step up or else the Bulls would have won just 10-20 games. And Kobe's time being on a championship team doesn't merit his understanding of the game better than MJ. Horry has been on championship teams most of his career. So there goes that argument.

Lastly, being a leader means everything! Take a look at the top players in NBA history with championship resumes: Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell. These guys lead their respective teams to the championship. Albeit, they were on great teams but when it came down to it they were the major reason why their teams won. Jordan is in this class. Kobe is not.

And as I stated before, in the Lakers 3 titles Shaq has all 3 Finals MVP. Jordan has all 6 of the Bulls finals mvp's. Kobe has none, regular season nor Finals MVP. Someone with an understanding of the game should at least have some hardwood to prove it.

**Dice** · 07-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Squint said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OK. Now that we've cleared that up back to our disscussion. Because Kobe is a better jumpshooter he understands the game better? That makes no sense. Steve Kerr is a better jumpshooter than Jordan so does that make Kerr a player with a better understanding of the game?

<hr /></blockquote>

No one ever said that Kobe's jumper was better than Jordan's because of an understanding of the game. That is a separate argument in itself. Reread the posts and then address the statement.

The fact remains that Kobe has been on a championship caliber team nearly his whole career. Good for him. That subjects him to having to learn the game much quicker than Jordan ever did. I could care less if you think Kobe was the "leader" of his team. The simple fact remains that when the game was on the line and the Lakers needed a clutch shot over the past couple of years it didn't come from Shaq. Sure, Fisher and Horry had their moments, but Kobe was the one the play was drawn up for and he's the one that took the shot and more often than not, made it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Jordan had loads of adversity to overcome since he first step on a NBA court, which forced him to learn the game much faster than Kobe. Kobe was a high schooler coming out of the draft where he wasn't expected to do much his first 3 years. So Kobe was never forced to be the player he is in his first couple of years. His team was so good they didn't need him to step up right away. Where Jordan had to step up or else the Bulls would have won just 10-20 games. And Kobe's time being on a championship team doesn't merit his understanding of the game better than MJ. Horry has been on championship teams most of his career. So there goes that argument.

Lastly, being a leader means everything! Take a look at the top players in NBA history with championship resumes: Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell. These guys lead their respective teams to the championship. Albeit, they were on great teams but when it came down to it they were the major reason why their teams won. Jordan is in this class. Kobe is not.

And as I stated before, in the Lakers 3 titles Shaq has all 3 Finals MVP. Jordan has all 6 of the Bulls finals mvp's. Kobe has none, regular season nor Finals MVP. Someone with an understanding of the game should at least have some hardwood to prove it.

**RA3000** · 07-12-2004, 05:02 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

MJ is much much better than Kobe, having been an NBA fan since the early 80s.

MJ's FG% is much higher than Kobe's and MJ does make his teammates a whole lot better, unlike Kobe.

**RA3000** · 07-12-2004, 05:02 PM

Re: Kobe\'s \'Bulls\'?

MJ is much much better than Kobe, having been an NBA fan since the early 80s.

MJ's FG% is much higher than Kobe's and MJ does make his teammates a whole lot better, unlike Kobe.

Kobe's 'Bulls'?

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