The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

[areobee401]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Did they? Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I'm pretty sure some others agreed with 24 but if you just want to argue you can ignore that part of it.

I can read just fine, thank you. My apologies for incorrectly interrupting the point of your post.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Seems like the consensus among local reporters is that the Cavs expect Love to be cleared and will come off the bench. Really hope it doesn't hurt us in the end.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Did they? Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I'm pretty sure some others agreed with 24 but if you just want to argue you can ignore that part of it.

Thank you for acknowledging what I (and others) have been trying to saying on the matter from a basketball standpoint...,I can see both sides of the argument

The thing is, we are all aware that people said those things after the Finals last year....it's becoming the bookend to every conversation it seems though (along with the help thing) ...even for folks who werent in that group...that's where the misunderstandings happen.

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Thank you for acknowledging what I (and others) have been trying to saying on the matter from a basketball standpoint...,I can see both sides of the argument

The thing is, we are all aware that people said those things after the Finals last year....it's becoming the bookend to every conversation it seems though (along with the help thing) ...even for folks who werent in that group...that's where the misunderstandings happen.

I swear some of the same dudes that insisted Love wouldn't make a difference/was a bad matchup for GS are the same dudes arguing against me now when I've given legit basketball reasons for him not starting. I led the charge of Love making a difference but now that I've suggested that he might be better suited off the bench (which is still making a difference) like others had alluded to earlier, it's like they're disagreeing just because I'm the one saying it.

I've yet to see anyone acknowledge or counter the point I made about Bogut, Splitter, and Bosh all being benched in the Finals. It happens, sometimes it's a good thing. Playoffs as we've all learned by now are heavily matchup driven. Kevin Love may be suited to be a starter against 28 other teams. But if this is the 1 team that he's not suited for, you don't just play him/start him because of his salary or the fact that he matches up just fine against everyone else. There's too much on the line. Game 3 would suggest that it just might be a good idea. But we'll have a better idea after tonight.

[wwharton]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I can read just fine, thank you. My apologies for incorrectly interrupting the point of your post.

You made the post. I'm not even sure the point of your "interruption" so...

Thank you for acknowledging what I (and others) have been trying to saying on the matter from a basketball standpoint...,I can see both sides of the argument

The thing is, we are all aware that people said those things after the Finals last year....it's becoming the bookend to every conversation it seems though (along with the help thing) ...even for folks who werent in that group...that's where the misunderstandings happen.

There is no misunderstanding. If you didn't make the statements I'm talking about then they aren't directed at you. I acknowledged you specifically because I remembered exactly what you said. Others said similar things... I didn't remember them by name and don't think I need to list every single person that my statement isn't directed at. Much like the other conversation about help, the posts are here in the thread. If you didn't make the post then you aren't who I was talking about.

The help conversation, I read through days and days of pages and pages of posts before responding. So I can understand getting on me for not quoting anyone. This conversation about Love is still happening... anyone can just scroll up and see the comments. Hell, just search for cima and read his last 10 or so comments lol.

There are thousands of people that visit this site and we don't all share the same opinion. I don't really understand why anyone would think a comment directed at something they specifically didn't say has anything to do with them.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Man why don't ya'll just say names so all these is misunderstandings can be avoided? Lol

[wwharton]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I swear some of the same dudes that insisted Love wouldn't make a difference/was a bad matchup for GS are the same dudes arguing against me now when I've given legit basketball reasons for him not starting. I led the charge of Love making a difference but now that I've suggested that he might be better suited off the bench (which is still making a difference) like others had alluded to earlier, it's like they're disagreeing just because I'm the one saying it.

I've yet to see anyone acknowledge or counter the point I made about Bogut, Splitter, and Bosh all being benched in the Finals. It happens, sometimes it's a good thing. Playoffs as we've all learned by now are heavily matchup driven. Kevin Love may be suited to be a starter against 28 other teams. But if this is the 1 team that he's not suited for, you don't just play him/start him because of his salary or the fact that he matches up just fine against everyone else. There's too much on the line. Game 3 would suggest that it just might be a good idea. But we'll have a better idea after tonight.

The problem is the way you interpret what people say. Nobody said Love wouldn't make a difference... NOBODY. Some said that having a healthy Kyrie and/or Love wouldn't have changed the results last year. Some said that the offense brought by Kyrie and Love would be evened out by the defense lost with them, making the final result the same as last year. But you heard what you wanted, pushing comments to the extreme to make crazy statements like the one you did above.

And saying that Love shouldn't start bc they won with him out is not "basketball reasons". It's short sighted... it's focusing on one of many variables and attributing the final result to it. What 24 presented was basketball reasons of why they shouldn't start him today.

Also, nobody said coaches shouldn't make changes to their lineup. People are saying sitting Love bc they won when he was out hurt isn't logical. You mentioned him being a detriment on defense, but you were also the one saying that Kyrie was the problem on defense in Games 1 and 2. Should they sit Kyrie? Why do the results of Game 3 hold more weight than Games 1 and 2? You're focusing on people just stating that management or Love may have a problem with him coming off the bench because of his salary, but ignore the post about home team advantage, role players on both teams playing better at home and worse on the road, Smith being 100 times more aggressive, Cavs players making shots that they missed before, the Cavs literally wanting it more. Those are all basketball reasons to why Game 3 went so different.

You want to add RJ getting more run and LBJ playing more 4 to that, go for it. They played a role also. But Love being hurt is not why they won, and the result (them winning) is not a reason for him to be benched.

[wwharton]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Man why don't ya'll just say names so all these is misunderstandings can be avoided? Lol

I just did for one. But the problem is I come in and read pages at a time. YOU (of all people) don't want me quoting all of them, lol. And I'm definitely not pulling out my notepad so I can be sure to accredit every single person that made the comments through 2 days of discussion.

Especially when common sense says that if you didn't say it then the comment wasn't directed at you.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

cima the thing is that you never seem to really acknowledge the level of effort and focus that everybody came out with in game 3. You just keep chalking that up to having RJ out there and having LeBron playing at the 4. There was a level of desperation and aggressiveness defensively that the Cavs played with that they simply weren't giving in the first two games. It also helps defensive effort when shots on the offensive end are actually falling for guys who's jumpers looked flat out broken in games 1 and 2.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I just did for one. But the problem is I come in and read pages at a time. YOU (of all people) don't want me quoting all of them, lol. And I'm definitely not pulling out my notepad so I can be sure to accredit every single person that made the comments through 2 days of discussion.

Especially when common sense says that if you didn't say it then the comment wasn't directed at you.

Oh I'm already hip, man lol

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

The problem is the way you interpret what people say. Nobody said Love wouldn't make a difference... NOBODY. Some said that having a healthy Kyrie and/or Love wouldn't have changed the results last year. Some said that the offense brought by Kyrie and Love would be evened out by the defense lost with them, making the final result the same as last year. But you heard what you wanted, pushing comments to the extreme to make crazy statements like the one you did above.

Saying Love or Kyrie's offense will be negated by what they give up on defense and the results will be the same is just another way of saying that they won't make a difference. Don't be so literal.

And saying that Love shouldn't start bc they won with him out is not "basketball reasons". It's short sighted... it's focusing on one of many variables and attributing the final result to it. What 24 presented was basketball reasons of why they shouldn't start him today.

I never said winning without Love was the reason they won, it was the fact that they had a far more athletic with RJ in the starting lineup as opposed to Love which makes a HUGE difference on defense, especially the switching. But the point still stands that without Love playing with the starters, that's one less guy you have to worry about getting involved (and like I said, we always hear about Love needs to get involved early to play good). That a long with playing at home made a difference. As far as Kyrie goes, he's just flat out playing better defense and he's CAPABLE of doing so; Love is only capable of so much due to his limited athleticism.

Also, nobody said coaches shouldn't make changes to their lineup. People are saying sitting Love bc they won when he was out hurt isn't logical. You mentioned him being a detriment on defense, but you were also the one saying that Kyrie was the problem on defense in Games 1 and 2. Should they sit Kyrie? Why do the results of Game 3 hold more weight than Games 1 and 2? You're focusing on people just stating that management or Love may have a problem with him coming off the bench because of his salary, but ignore the post about home team advantage, role players on both teams playing better at home and worse on the road, Smith being 100 times more aggressive, Cavs players making shots that they missed before, the Cavs literally wanting it more. Those are all basketball reasons to why Game 3 went so different.

These finals are about matchups. Regardless of the small sample size, in my opinion, it is not logical to go back to what WASN'T working in Games 1 and 2 and essentially abandon or not stick with the exact recipe that allowed you to win Game 3 extremely comfortably. I've also acknowledged that it MAY work with Love in the lineup but the advanced metrics show that the 2/5/24/23/13 lineup is more effective on both offense and defense. Was it 1 game? Yes. Does that matter when you're down 2-1 in the Finals and 1 loss away from facing elimination on the road? No it doesn't matter, it's necessary to stick with what worked until it doesn't work anymore.

You also realize that the most effective lineup in the entire playoffs in terms of Net rating was LeBron + the bench right? And that group got smoked so badly in the first 2 games that they abandoned it very quickly. I don't see anyone advocating to keep that unit together though.

You want to add RJ getting more run and LBJ playing more 4 to that, go for it. They played a role also. But Love being hurt is not why they won, and the result (them winning) is not a reason for him to be benched.

And then when you factor how good the offense looked with last game's starting lineup in addition to how poor the bench has played on offense, and finally factor in that it's been proven that Love plays better when he is the #1 or #2 option on offense, why wouldn't you stick with the lineup that played well AND upgrade your bench's scoring significantly at the same time? Finally to be clear again, I'm not advocating for him to be benched entirely, but he should absolutely come off the bench and play less minutes.

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

cima the thing is that you never seem to really acknowledge the level of effort and focus that everybody came out with in game 3. You just keep chalking that up to having RJ out there and having LeBron playing at the 4. There was a level of desperation and aggressiveness defensively that the Cavs played with that they simply weren't giving in the first two games. It also helps defensive effort when shots on the offensive end are actually falling for guys who's jumpers looked flat out broken in games 1 and 2.

Focus and effort in a do or die situation goes without saying, and it was extremely easy to identify. The overall domino effect that a more athletic player provided on both offense and defense is harder to see.

I like Love and want him to succeed; I'm just now firmly believing he can best help this team in these NBA Finals against this opponent by coming off the bench.

[areobee401]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

How about the Cavs fan who lost his job for tweeting Steph's sister a nasty comment direct towards Riley Curry? When will some people learn what you put out on social media lasts forever no matter how quickly you hit the delete button. Idiot.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

How about the Cavs fan who lost his job for tweeting Steph's sister a nasty comment direct towards Riley Curry? When will some people learn what you put out on social media last forever no matter how quickly you hit the delete button. Idiot.

Yeah, I was glad to hear that tbh...hope it's a lesson to the rest of these idiots

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

It's honestly amazing (not to mention pathetic and stupid) how seriously some people still take sports. Death threats, racial insults, going after people's families on social media over players/teams that generally don't give two ****s about you or even know you exist in most cases. I'd say grow up, but I wasn't even that stupid as a child to be okay with pulling stuff like that.