2021 Offseason Thread

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  • ojandpizza
    Hall Of Fame
    • Apr 2011
    • 29807

    #1861
    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

    Originally posted by Master Live 013
    Come on dude, he takes a back seat in half-court touches to Tobias because he can't shoot. If he could shoot he would only take a "back seat" to Embiid (maybe), so we aren't going to give him props for sucking at shooting and then doing the rational thing that is to curtail his touches.
    Yeah? I'm not talking about why he doesn't get touches or if he should, I'm replying to the comment that insinuated if he was traded he wouldn't be happy there either, even though he's seemingly been fine despite being in a spot that hasn't been a great fit for his skillset. Regardless of the why, I'm just saying not every player just accepts reduced roles before they are old like that. Basically that there is no history of him being unhappy despite not being in an ideal spot for his game, so I didn't understand why we should assume he would be unhappy elsewhere. He wasn't unhappy until the team/fans/media were the ones unhappy with him.

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #1862
      2021 Offseason Thread

      Oh I know it’s coming.

      And King is good peoples #onhere but when he takes a position and sticks with it, he gonna type out an essay with some words in Caps and some bleeped out words. [emoji23]

      Me? I’ll give you a snarky response, a rhetorical question or two and then keep it moving lol

      OJ used to be like that and still is to an extent but not as bad as he used to be, lol
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • Master Live 013
        Hall Of Fame
        • Oct 2013
        • 12425

        #1863
        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

        Also, we may say what we want, but there is a bit of NBA drama and look how this thread lights up. NBA winning.
        OSHA Inspector for the NBA.

        Comment

        • DieHardYankee26
          BING BONG
          • Feb 2008
          • 10178

          #1864
          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

          Originally posted by ojandpizza
          Basically that there is no history of him being unhappy despite not being in an ideal spot for his game, so I didn't understand why we should assume he would be unhappy elsewhere. He wasn't unhappy until the team/fans/media were the ones unhappy with him.
          Simply put, it didn’t have anything to do with him being in an ideal spot for the game. I think the team/fans/media are going to do the same thing wherever he goes.
          Originally posted by G Perico
          If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
          I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
          In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
          The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

          Comment

          • ProfessaPackMan
            Bamma
            • Mar 2008
            • 63852

            #1865
            Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

            Originally posted by DieHardYankee26
            Simply put, it didn’t have anything to do with him being in an ideal spot for the game. I think the team/fans/media are going to do the same thing wherever he goes.
            **** of the 3(fans/Media)did it with us, but then we killed that noise real quick.

            Basically, don’t worry about what most of them say because more times than not, they won’t know what they’re talking about.
            #RespectTheCulture

            Comment

            • King_B_Mack
              All Star
              • Jan 2009
              • 24450

              #1866
              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
              You legit asking?

              Speaking for myself, I’ve always said that a few National guys like Sham, Woj, Haynes were the only ones worth listening to nationally and in regards to the Nets(outside of the local guys. You may feel different about them in regards to the Bulls)and the others shouldn’t even be considered, like Nick Wright(he’s not a reporter but plenty of those guys love to put that hat on when trying to break some news, only for it to be BS)when he made up a rumor about trading Kyrie but hid it under the guise of “I’m just posting some trade ideas like anyone else” on Twitter.
              Legit asking because I've seen Woj catching shade around here before too. It legit seems like there are times here and it could just be me, where we get a little too caught up in the 'don't believe these reporters' thing but then certain stuff that comes out people don't even hesitate to accept it as fact. Just my observations over the last few years.

              Comment

              • fugazi
                MVP
                • Apr 2003
                • 3749

                #1867
                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                Been Simmons lol

                That contract lol

                But... he knows they aren't coming out of the East as they are... and knows neither he nor Embiid are reliable enough to attract the talent they need.
                Australian Rules Football...just sayin'

                Comment

                • jfsolo
                  Live Action, please?
                  • May 2003
                  • 12965

                  #1868
                  Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                  Still would replace Russ with Ben right now with no hesitation.
                  Jordan Mychal Lemos
                  @crypticjordan

                  Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

                  Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

                  Comment

                  • Master Live 013
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Oct 2013
                    • 12425

                    #1869
                    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                    Sure, much younger, can guard 1-4, even some 5's, you substitute bricks for no shots at all

                    Spotlight wouldn't be on him, he could just do his thing.
                    OSHA Inspector for the NBA.

                    Comment

                    • King_B_Mack
                      All Star
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 24450

                      #1870
                      Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                      Originally posted by Master Live 013
                      Sure, much younger, can guard 1-4, even some 5's, you substitute bricks for no shots at all

                      Spotlight wouldn't be on him, he could just do his thing.
                      Spotlight wouldn't be on who? If Ben thought the bus hit him in Philly, pull that scared to shoot **** in LA and cost Bron a ring. Nobody sucks more than a LeBron James teammate, best believe.

                      Comment

                      • illwill10
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 19828

                        #1871
                        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                        Ben always accepted his role. He always knew this was Joel's team. He's the facilitator and he has very high IQ. He'd rather dish it to a team who has a higher % of hitting that shot compared to him taking a "low %" Mid-range shot. Beat Writers would say "would you really want him taking an extra 5 FGA away from other teammates, when you're more confident in them making a lower % shot." Tobias isn't a #2.

                        Was he a factor in them in losing that series, yes. But, he isn't the sole reason they lost. Joel had 16 TOs in the last 2 games and went full hero ball in the 4th Quarters. Tobias went like 5-24 in Game 7 and was missing high % close shots. While I do think it comes off as very Soft, they did throw him under the bus. I don't Doc's answer was that big of deal. I watched most of the press conferences all season, Doc defended and coddled him at every turn all season. Joel's answer was more direct tossing the blame. I like Joel, but he can be frustrating to watch at time. When he gets tired, he takes low % fades or foul hunts.

                        I do think Ben would flourish in uptempo offense surrounded by shooters like Giannis. He never was a fit alongside Joel. He fits better alongside a Stretch 5. While Joel shot a good 3pt % and finally stopped jacking too many threes, you still cringe when he takes 3s. My main issue with Ben is that he seems like he was always coddled and never was forced to be accountable. They always defended him at every turn.

                        Comment

                        • DieHardYankee26
                          BING BONG
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 10178

                          #1872
                          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                          Serious question, how many stretch 5s are there in the league?


                          Lacob: “In some ways, it doesn’t really fit what we’re doing. He makes a lot of money. And, can he finish games? I don’t know,” Lacob said. “He’s very talented. The problem is: We have Draymond. Draymond and him are very similar in the sense that neither one really shoots and they do a lot of the playmaking. That’s one issue. The salary structure is another.”
                          Last edited by DieHardYankee26; 09-21-2021, 08:43 PM.
                          Originally posted by G Perico
                          If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                          I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                          In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                          The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

                          Comment

                          • illwill10
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 19828

                            #1873
                            Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                            Originally posted by DieHardYankee26
                            Serious question, how many stretch 5s are there in the league?


                            Lacob: “In some ways, it doesn’t really fit what we’re doing. He makes a lot of money. And, can he finish games? I don’t know,” Lacob said. “He’s very talented. The problem is: We have Draymond. Draymond and him are very similar in the sense that neither one really shoots and they do a lot of the playmaking. That’s one issue. The salary structure is another.”
                            Not that many. Best fit would be probably be alongside KAT because he is a career 39% 3pt shooter. Out of the interested teams, only a few that he is actually a fit. I don't see him as a good fit alongside Jarret Allen and Cavs would be a wonky fit. Most of the interested teams are small market teams that are likely doing the deal because of the 4 years. I don't see Warriors as a good deal for Sixers because that's a deal you do if you are waiting on a potential Dame/Beal deal later.

                            What makes this deal hard is the absurd asking price and this isn't a situation where the team becomes a rebuilding team after the trade. This is a situation where you want young players and picks. They aren't getting a star. But, they want win now players. This is likely a 3-4 team deal

                            Comment

                            • ojandpizza
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 29807

                              #1874
                              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                              It wouldn’t have to be a stretch 5 only though, it could also be a rim runner that operates away from the rim ideally setting him ball screens to get downhill, or even a big that just operates without the ball or clogging the lane like Draymond next to Bogut/Looney, LeBron with Thompson, etc.. or even Ben operating more as a “big” as a playmaker up top and setting screens/hand offs like Draymond with Steph. The big doesn’t have to be a stretch guy, just needs to compliment each other’s games.

                              He’s just in the worse mix of it all because Embiid doesn’t offer him space, they don’t want Embiid away from the rim anymore than he already is, he was getting gassed in 20 minutes when they had him out roaming and setting screens, they have another forward shot creator on the floor who Ben can’t adequately play off of without a jump shot, and then Curry and Green who are strictly catch and shoot guys. So even if Embiid sits it’s not like he can run a two man game with Seth or Danny the way say Giannis can with Jrue and Khris.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              Last edited by ojandpizza; 09-22-2021, 02:09 PM.

                              Comment

                              • ojandpizza
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Apr 2011
                                • 29807

                                #1875
                                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                                I feel like a good deal for both sides is going to be so tricky though. For one Philly seems to be incredibly stingy, but at the same time why would they move Ben for a lesser haul if they are trying to compete for a ring? Their window could be small. This season was literally the first time in years Joel has looked both healthy and conditioned enough to last 30+ effective minutes in a playoff game.. and he still ultimately got injured. They aren’t moving Ben for role players with Harris ultimately being their clear cut 2nd best player at that point to square off against teams like Milwaukee and Brooklyn.

                                For two there aren’t many available “stars” to be traded this close to training camp. John Wall is no longer that caliber of player, Sac is seemingly refusing to budge on Haliburton or Fox, a LaVine swap might have made sense before getting Ball but the money is off anyways (I know you hate this trade King so you don’t even have to type
                                It out lol) Sixers are rumored to not want DLo (I don’t really blame them) and Minnesota likely wouldn’t sweeten that deal with guys like Beasley + more.

                                It almost feels like Ben will be headed towards a team primed for a rebuild, or to take that next jump from rebuilding to fighting for the playoffs.. the problem is those teams aren’t going to trade away their best players they’ll want to add Ben to what they are building, or don’t have **** to send back in return.

                                Pacers with Brogdon and Warren would seem pretty solid to me, but a Simmons/Turner/Sabonis fitting would seem poor. Pacers would most likely need to move one of Sabonis/Turner to another team to make the pieces make sense.. that said I believe Indiana has put themselves into a position to be a playoff team, not sure restarting it all now makes sense. Also does Brogdon and Warren really get them closer to a ring?

                                I don’t know why the Kings won’t move a guard. I can understand not wanting to move both Hield and Haliburton, but having Haliburton, Fox, Mitchell, is a bit redundant. Fox and Bagley to me makes sense and is enough youth, potential, and potential star power to entice Philly. Hield and Haliburton are both top tier shooters and would seemingly fit well with Ben.

                                The Spurs trade to me actually makes sense for San Antonio. With all due respect to Murray and his improvement he’s not taking them anywhere. Some combo of Murray/White/Vassell perhaps. They acquired some assets and are obviously moving forward with a “rebuild” sooner rather than later... Johnson seems to be the best prospect on the team by far, Ben is still young enough to move them that direction and though they likely aren’t significantly better after that trade it’s a step in that direction.. the issue is I don’t think Philly does that. Murray is a solid Ben replacement, he’s a great defender himself, but none of those guys are getting Embiid closer to competing against guys like Middleton/Jrue and Harden/Kyrie.. and none of them have what look to be sky high ceilings either.

                                Would it be wild to assume the Mavs would try to pair him with Luka? Seems like an odd fit but couldn’t be any more awkward than whatever KP was doing in the playoffs. Something like Porzingis, Finney-Smith, and Brunson. In this instance Philly would have to assume Porzingis is a starting 4 next to Joel and that Brunson is a starting caliber PG.. I’m not sure either of those are the case. Could maybe get interesting if worked into a 3-4 team type of deal.

                                OKC has absolute **** for trade value, but I could see them getting in on the action to help facilitate some 3-4 team move. Maybe they would take back a contract like Wall or Porzingis for some more draft assets. At some point when another team decides to “tank/rebuild” contracts like those plus a handful of their 400 picks could get them a star to pair with SGA.

                                Some random *** multi piece trade like below might work:

                                OKC gets: Wall + more picks
                                76ers get: Siakam, Dragic, Eric Gordon
                                Rockets get: Ben Simmons, Favors, Boucher
                                Raptors get: T Harris, Christian Wood, Giddey

                                Potential issue there is how highly OKC values Giddey. It might take a young player going back to them in addition to those picks.

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