The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

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  • bigfnjoe96
    Hall Of Fame
    • Feb 2004
    • 11410

    #1201
    Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

    Follow the Transformation of MSG here:

    http://www.msgtransformation.com/Transformation.aspx#

    The Garden is gonna look amazing once this is done..

    Comment

    • bigeastbumrush
      My Momma's Son
      • Feb 2003
      • 19245

      #1202
      Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

      Originally posted by Pete1210
      Comparing the Knicks to this years champs I am feeling better about our chances this year.
      If Carmelo Anthony works he can be our shorter version of Dirk. Gets his own shot, can drive, get fouls, solid jump shooter.
      I'll take Amare over Marion. But will/can Amare play some D. Heard him in an interview yesterday morning on ESPN radio and he was talking mostly defense as teh team focus.
      Billups, healthy is not much worse than Kidd.
      Fields (1st half of season) > Stevenson.
      So starting all we need is a decent Center.
      Then a bench. Douglas has potential to be a good 6th man.
      Add to that mental toughness both on the court and on the sidelines. If they don't have it, there will be no playoff push.

      I feel Amare and Chauncey can bring that on the court and in the locker room.

      I don't see that in D'Antoni and the current coaching staff.

      Also, this draft is critical. After thinking about it more and more, the Knicks need to pick up role players. Not shoot for a homerun with a scoring machine.

      I want:
      17th pick - Faried (Markieff Morris is so much more game ready but I feel Faried is the consummate role player and could turn out to be a difference maker down the road).

      Buy a second rounder - IMO hope that Darius Morris of Michigan slips as I think the Knicks need a pass-first PG. I heard Amare's interviews and he still loves Steve Nash because he could get everyone the ball (even said he wish Nash could be a Knick).

      There's other guys in the draft I like, but, again, the Knicks don't need scoring.

      We need guys like Tony Allen of the Grizzlies. A Rondo-type PG. A Chandler-type Center.

      Comment

      • Vast
        MVP
        • Sep 2003
        • 4015

        #1203
        Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

        Originally posted by Pete1210
        Comparing the Knicks to this years champs I am feeling better about our chances this year.
        If Carmelo Anthony works he can be our shorter version of Dirk. Gets his own shot, can drive, get fouls, solid jump shooter.
        I'll take Amare over Marion. But will/can Amare play some D. Heard him in an interview yesterday morning on ESPN radio and he was talking mostly defense as teh team focus.
        Billups, healthy is not much worse than Kidd.
        Fields (1st half of season) > Stevenson.
        So starting all we need is a decent Center.
        Then a bench. Douglas has potential to be a good 6th man.
        I like your assessment. Melo and Dirks game are pretty similar but I think Dirk is a much better shooter and he's unblockable. With that said if the Knicks get a GREAT coach and a defensive center they should be a force to be reckoned with.
        "I'm addicted to Video Games, and i chase it with a little OS." -Winston Churchill

        Comment

        • ehh
          Hall Of Fame
          • Mar 2003
          • 28962

          #1204
          Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

          Our defense, rebounding and coaching pales in comparison to what Dallas currently has.

          I do agree about the draft being important, we NEED to pick up a quality rotation guy.
          "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

          "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

          Comment

          • Hassan Darkside
            We Here
            • Sep 2003
            • 7561

            #1205
            Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

            I think we need to bolster our backcourt. I like Marshon Brooks the most. He's a solid all around scorer who can get his own shot, something we don't have coming off the bench.

            I like Faried but he's a low potential guy imo and I feel like we could find an undersized athletic big that does the same things as him without drafting one.

            I also like Klay Thompson and Josh Selby, but I don't think Selby fits with our team due to his size, unless we get rid of Douglas or something. But I think he has a lot of potential, but he's unlikely to become a real PG.
            [NYK|DAL|VT]
            A true MC, y'all doing them regular degular dance songs
            You losin' your teeth, moving like using Kevin Durant comb
            Royce da 5'9"


            Originally posted by DCAllAmerican
            How many brothers fell victim to the skeet.........

            Comment

            • ehh
              Hall Of Fame
              • Mar 2003
              • 28962

              #1206
              Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

              I saw Brooks play enough at PC, I dunno. Who knows how people adjust to the league but he's probably going to be a straight up gunner and another blackhole. Not sure that's what we need but I'm almost positive he'll be off the boards by the time we select.
              "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

              "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

              Comment

              • bigeastbumrush
                My Momma's Son
                • Feb 2003
                • 19245

                #1207
                Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
                I think we need to bolster our backcourt. I like Marshon Brooks the most. He's a solid all around scorer who can get his own shot, something we don't have coming off the bench.

                I like Faried but he's a low potential guy imo and I feel like we could find an undersized athletic big that does the same things as him without drafting one.

                I also like Klay Thompson and Josh Selby, but I don't think Selby fits with our team due to his size, unless we get rid of Douglas or something. But I think he has a lot of potential, but he's unlikely to become a real PG.
                Offense, offense, offense.

                We get sucked into believing that we need scorers. Did the Knicks not score enough points last year?

                Reading the NY Post, Walsh says he likes Klay Thompson because he reminds him of Reggie Miller. Drafting Thompson would allow him to start at SG and move Landry Fields to a 6th man role.

                Another stupid move IMHO.

                Faried is a "low potential guy". Okay. So Thompson and Brooks are high potential because they can shoot the ball?

                That's the same thinking that got Corey Brewer and Anthony Randolph shipped outta here.

                Comment

                • Hassan Darkside
                  We Here
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 7561

                  #1208
                  Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                  I just think a guard is a better pick than a big man at that stage in the draft. I feel like the guard class is a little better around that area.

                  I also wouldn't mind Shumpert. Can't shoot but he played PG at GT, good defender, and ridiculously athletic. 6'6", 42" vert, 18 reps on bench press. Could be a good fit with Toney Douglas in the backcourt.

                  I also feel like it's easier to coach a player into becoming a good defender than coach a player into becoming a good offensive player. D'Antoni isn't going to coach too many players into becoming good defenders regardless, but guys like Brooks and his 7'1" wingspan have good defensive potential and could end up the better overall player down the line.
                  [NYK|DAL|VT]
                  A true MC, y'all doing them regular degular dance songs
                  You losin' your teeth, moving like using Kevin Durant comb
                  Royce da 5'9"


                  Originally posted by DCAllAmerican
                  How many brothers fell victim to the skeet.........

                  Comment

                  • bigeastbumrush
                    My Momma's Son
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 19245

                    #1209
                    Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                    Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
                    I just think a guard is a better pick than a big man at that stage in the draft. I feel like the guard class is a little better around that area.

                    I also wouldn't mind Shumpert. Can't shoot but he played PG at GT, good defender, and ridiculously athletic. 6'6", 42" vert, 18 reps on bench press. Could be a good fit with Toney Douglas in the backcourt.

                    I also feel like it's easier to coach a player into becoming a good defender than coach a player into becoming a good offensive player. D'Antoni isn't going to coach too many players into becoming good defenders regardless, but guys like Brooks and his 7'1" wingspan have good defensive potential and could end up the better overall player down the line.
                    What Mike D'Antoni wants and can do is irrelevant because he's a lame duck coach.

                    And it is, IMO, extremely harder to teach a player to become a good defender at this stage of their careers because so many offensive-minded players develop bad habits throughout their career.

                    Look at the Knicks last year. They don't know how to box out. They don't know how to defend a pick & roll. They don't know when to front the post. Help defense sucks. List goes on and on.

                    And defense won't improve if it's not a priority in practice.

                    I know I'm beating a dead horse but I'm sick and tired of this lack of defense from this franchise. That's not how we won in the past and that is not how the NBA champs over the years won.

                    Time to change the culture. And it doesn't start with drafting "the next" Reggie Miller IMO.

                    Comment

                    • Kruza
                      Mainstream Outlaw
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 6285

                      #1210
                      Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
                      I also feel like it's easier to coach a player into becoming a good defender than coach a player into becoming a good offensive player.

                      A player can possibly be coached to develop into a better team/system defender. But coaching doesn't do much to help a player become a better individual perimeter/post defender or shotblocker. These traits are largely based on the level of that particular player in terms of athletic ability, skill set, and defensive instincts.

                      Kruza

                      Comment

                      • Hassan Darkside
                        We Here
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 7561

                        #1211
                        Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                        Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
                        What Mike D'Antoni wants and can do is irrelevant because he's a lame duck coach.

                        And it is, IMO, extremely harder to teach a player to become a good defender at this stage of their careers because so many offensive-minded players develop bad habits throughout their career.

                        Look at the Knicks last year. They don't know how to box out. They don't know how to defend a pick & roll. They don't know when to front the post. Help defense sucks. List goes on and on.

                        And defense won't improve if it's not a priority in practice.

                        I know I'm beating a dead horse but I'm sick and tired of this lack of defense from this franchise. That's not how we won in the past and that is not how the NBA champs over the years won.

                        Time to change the culture. And it doesn't start with drafting "the next" Reggie Miller IMO.
                        I agree with that but changing the culture should start from top down. What I'm saying is that at pick 17, there really isn't that great of talent, defensive talent especially still on the board. Sure, we could go with Faried, a 6'7 defensive minded player, but don't we have enough undersized post defenders? Balkman 6'8, Brown 6'7, Shawne Williams 6'9, Sheldon Williams 6'9. Plus there's plenty of them we could scoop up in FA or in the D-League like someone like Pops Mensah-Bonsu who does the same type of things, rebound and block shots.

                        I think the quality of the guard position at 17 is better than that of the big man position, whether it be Burks, Thompson, or Brooks. If we were to move up, that's a different story. I'd love to be able to get someone like Bismack Biyombo.

                        What D'Antoni wants and can do is relevant because all those issues you listed are products of his coaching. Drafting a guy with decent defensive potential and putting him under D'Antoni will do nothing for him. If we want to change the culture, change the coach first, then change the players. Having guys like Amare or Melo who don't really buy into defense do us no favors, and the coach does not motivate them whatsoever to even try.

                        Otherwise players need to be imported, like Billups, that already know how to play defense and understand the importance of it. It's difficult to find that in the draft because defending in college is much different than defending in the NBA.
                        [NYK|DAL|VT]
                        A true MC, y'all doing them regular degular dance songs
                        You losin' your teeth, moving like using Kevin Durant comb
                        Royce da 5'9"


                        Originally posted by DCAllAmerican
                        How many brothers fell victim to the skeet.........

                        Comment

                        • bigeastbumrush
                          My Momma's Son
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 19245

                          #1212
                          Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                          Originally posted by Ruff Ryder
                          [B]I agree with that but changing the culture should start from top down. What I'm saying is that at pick 17, there really isn't that great of talent, defensive talent especially still on the board. Sure, we could go with Faried, a 6'7 defensive minded player, but don't we have enough undersized post defenders? Balkman 6'8, Brown 6'7, Shawne Williams 6'9, Sheldon Williams 6'9. Plus there's plenty of them we could scoop up in FA or in the D-League like someone like Pops Mensah-Bonsu who does the same type of things, rebound and block shots.

                          I think the quality of the guard position at 17 is better than that of the big man position, whether it be Burks, Thompson, or Brooks. If we were to move up, that's a different story. I'd love to be able to get someone like Bismack Biyombo.
                          Did you see Bismack's adidas Euro workout? Take a look at it and let me know if you still want him.

                          Renaldo Balkman was a complete unknown when Isaiah drafted him. If I'm not mistaken, his team didn't even make the NCAA tourney.

                          Brown- a nobody.

                          Williams- lucky to be in the league. Great 3 point shooter. That's it.

                          My point really isn't bigs/smalls at #17. It's offense vs. defense.

                          It seems like people want to hit a homerun at 17 and get a starting SG...or a starter in general.

                          I just disagree.

                          Comment

                          • Jeffx
                            MVP
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 3045

                            #1213
                            Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                            Originally posted by ehh
                            Our defense, rebounding and coaching pales in comparison to what Dallas currently has.

                            I do agree about the draft being important, we NEED to pick up a quality rotation guy.
                            Don't forget our owner and front office pale in comparison to what Dallas has too. And don't get me started on Knicks drafts.

                            I know I sound like an old and bitter fan, but it's real hard to get excited about this franchise anymore. Except for Bernard's short time here and the 90s with Patrick, we've stumbled and bumbled since 1973. Deep down, do you younger fans honestly think the Knicks will be elite again with current ownership? Give me a reason to be optimistic.

                            Comment

                            • Hassan Darkside
                              We Here
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 7561

                              #1214
                              Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                              Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
                              Did you see Bismack's adidas Euro workout? Take a look at it and let me know if you still want him.

                              Renaldo Balkman was a complete unknown when Isaiah drafted him. If I'm not mistaken, his team didn't even make the NCAA tourney.

                              Brown- a nobody.

                              Williams- lucky to be in the league. Great 3 point shooter. That's it.

                              My point really isn't bigs/smalls at #17. It's offense vs. defense.

                              It seems like people want to hit a homerun at 17 and get a starting SG...or a starter in general.

                              I just disagree.
                              Yea I saw Biyombo's workout, but we don't need him to score the ball.

                              My main beef is that we tend to reach with our draft picks, going at guys that we could get later or just sign undrafted outright, whether it have been Fields last year, Chandler, Balkman, Rautins, etc.

                              I just don't feel like someone like Faried's gonna stick in the league or be anything more than an energy guy who comes in for a spurt. Not because he can't make a jumpshot, because he's short. I love his attitude, his work ethic, his physical nature, but not his height. One of the main points of us going after a defensive big man is so Amar'e doesn't have to play center.

                              I'd have no qualms with taking a guy like Iman Shumpert, who I think may be around later in the draft, but he's a solid defensive guard. He played PG at GT but is more of a combo guard and can't shoot, but he's 6'6, would be good off the bench with Douglas, crazy athletic (42" vert, 18 reps on bench).

                              Who do you want in the draft?
                              [NYK|DAL|VT]
                              A true MC, y'all doing them regular degular dance songs
                              You losin' your teeth, moving like using Kevin Durant comb
                              Royce da 5'9"


                              Originally posted by DCAllAmerican
                              How many brothers fell victim to the skeet.........

                              Comment

                              • bigeastbumrush
                                My Momma's Son
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 19245

                                #1215
                                Re: The 2011 New York Knicks: The Rebirth

                                Originally posted by Ruff Ryder

                                Who do you want in the draft?
                                17th Pick
                                1. Faried
                                2. Chris Singleton (FSU)
                                3. Markieff Morris

                                2nd Rounder
                                1. Darius Morris (Michigan)
                                2. Shumpert
                                3. Goudelock

                                Comment

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