Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

[JayBee74]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Bottom line, Hopkins said he'd never let a white boy beat him, but he lets everyone beat him. He let Taylor beat him, he let JC beat him. When you are only landing 7 to 10 punches a round, you pretty much will let anyone beat you. Its because he's past his prime. He was active after taking 5 minutes of rest late in the fight because of the low blow. It didn't hurt him, he needed a breather. I can't blame him, he's in darn fine shape for a 43 year old, but he is 43. I hope that's the last fight for the Snoozacutioner.

I agree with much of what you said, but I think part of Hopkin's fatigue factor was the pressing style of Calzage. He really wore Bernard down.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

I believe that KO percentage does in fact mean that a fighter packs a punch. The biggest punchers in the history of boxing have very high KO percentages.

also about these european fighter... I could argue that they are not names to you guys or 'top' fighters, because of your ethnocentrism attitude as a result of being americans and living in the USA. I think it's fair to say that Joe is a 'top' fighter, and if you look at his opponents combined record, it's pretty impressive. Joe didn't get so good beating cream puffs

lets look at bhop now...his biggest name oppenents are all his last 5 fights, and he's lost 3 of them. Before that you go to his win over DLH in 04, then tito in 01....now scroll way way down to 93 when he lost to roy jones. This is somehow legendary compared to joe's opponents????

His opponent record is similar to Calzaghe's

Please tell me the opponents that Joe knocked out, not TKO but actually KOd. I am more than happy to wait til you post it.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Where do you get this stuff? Calzage's a virtual unknown in his own sport? Now if you said he wasn't a household name.........As far as not in the Pound For Pound (P4P) discussion, many lists have him in the Top 5, including Ring Magazine.

Like Hopkins could do anything else in this fight. He was incapable of throwing anything resembling a combination, let alone landing one. He was noticeably fatigued later in the fight, and where is the credit to Joe for making Bernard work harder? And yet you say that BHop blew it by not "throwing enough". His reflexes and stamina prevented him from throwing more punches, not a game plan gone astray.

Nah, I "supposed it", more a knock on Hopkins "half court defense" than anything to do with Joe's power. Bottom line-Hopkins holds more as the quality of his opponents goes up.

how long has Joe been in that p4p listing, considering he has 40 wins for his career.

again, most of these arguments are telling me what Hop did NOT do, but little are making a solid argument for what Joe did.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

I'd like to see it when you really are knocking Joe. The bottom line is Hopkins lost. You and Complex are making more excuses for Hopkins then he could come up with himself, and he's a hall of famer at bellyaching. Let's tear apart Joe's KO %, his competition, his punching power, his lack of courage for never fighting outside his homeland (Hopkins has had 2 fights outside of the US, the last 15 years ago), his misremembering if he was hurt by the knockdown, his chin, etc., etc. Complex went so far as to say Calzage isn't in a "best fighter pound for pound discussion". Maybe at the Calzage's Haters Club, but not the general boxing fan.

Pleae list your top 5 P4P.

[aholbert32]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

So you gave Calzage the fight by a point, you are still making excuses for Hopkins (age), and your anti Calzage slant continues, by taking away from his victory before the fight happens("I said months ago on this forum that people would give Joe more credit then he deserved for beating a 43 yr old Hopkins because of his name among other things."). So if Joe wins he doesn't deserve any credit for doing it, and he he loses he's definitely an overrated bum. Ignore the fact that an over 40 Hopkins had convincing wins over guys like Tarver and Winky Wright.

Key words in my sentence: "MORE CREDIT than he deserves." Meaning that he should get credit for beating Hopkins but not the amount you and the press are giving him.

And yes if he lost to Hopkins he should have been called an overrated bum. There wasnt a member of the press and very few people on this forum that gave Hopkins a chance. Joe was expected to win. So if he lost people would have questioned him since he lost his first fight in the US against a man he was expected to beat. See thats what happens when you fight someone you should beat.

Whatever. If I have an anti Joe slant...you definitely have a pro Joe slant. The fact is instead of fighting Haye or Taylor or Pavlik, He's going to fight Jones. You know Joe isnt going to fight an in his prime elite fighter again. He loves his undefeated record too much. He even said so in Countdown to Hopkins/Calzaghe. If he fights an elite fighter again and beats them...then Ill start the top 5 pfp talk.

[NYG_Meth]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Key words in my sentence: "MORE CREDIT than he deserves." Meaning that he should get credit for beating Hopkins but not the amount you and the press are giving him.

And yes if he lost to Hopkins he should have been called an overrated bum. There wasnt a member of the press and very few people on this forum that gave Hopkins a chance. Joe was expected to win. So if he lost people would have questioned him since he lost his first fight in the US against a man he was expected to beat. See thats what happens when you fight someone you should beat.

Whatever. If I have an anti Joe slant...you definitely have a pro Joe slant. The fact is instead of fighting Haye or Taylor or Pavlik, He's going to fight Jones. You know Joe isnt going to fight an in his prime elite fighter again. He loves his undefeated record too much. He even said so in Countdown to Hopkins/Calzaghe. If he fights an elite fighter again and beats them...then Ill start the top 5 pfp talk.

Haye is not fighting outside of Heavyweight. That wouldn't happen.

[Vast]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

I think its ridiculous how these Hopkins fans praise him one second then call him old and washed up the next. His age isn't a factor dudes been old since forever if anything he's in much better shape now. Nobody can knock him out and nobody has really dominated him yet hes a hasbeen thats going by on name recognition alone.... pff sure.

Calzaghe is not as strong as Hopkins, he's not as strong as Kessler, he definitely doesn't look as strong as Lacy. Yet he's beaten them all and im not sure what power has to do with it when its all about skill. Joe took 2 viscious right hands from Hopkins and kept coming at him. thats heart. if it wasn't for the phantom sack punch we would've seen him dominate. But even if Joe beat Hopkins convincingly these guys still would give him no credit.

Watever. Its funny Hopkins impressed me the first few rounds and then made me hate him again with his super dirty tactics. lol

[allBthere]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Please tell me the opponents that Joe knocked out, not TKO but actually KOd. I am more than happy to wait til you post it.

tko is every bit as good as a ko...i never said joe was more powerful puncher. But he can hit hard enough to be an undefeted champion at his weight and put people away....did you see lacy's face at the end of that fight? It was totally mangled.

what are even arguing about anymore...go back a few pages and read the article i posted from east side boxing comparing the two's ring record.

[aholbert32]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Haye is not fighting outside of Heavyweight. That wouldn't happen.

I think he would consider fighting Calzaghe at LH. The money for that fight would be huge.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

Key words in my sentence: "MORE CREDIT than he deserves." Meaning that he should get credit for beating Hopkins but not the amount you and the press are giving him.

And yes if he lost to Hopkins he should have been called an overrated bum. There wasnt a member of the press and very few people on this forum that gave Hopkins a chance. Joe was expected to win. So if he lost people would have questioned him since he lost his first fight in the US against a man he was expected to beat. See thats what happens when you fight someone you should beat.

Whatever. If I have an anti Joe slant...you definitely have a pro Joe slant. The fact is instead of fighting Haye or Taylor or Pavlik, He's going to fight Jones. You know Joe isnt going to fight an in his prime elite fighter again. He loves his undefeated record too much. He even said so in Countdown to Hopkins/Calzaghe. If he fights an elite fighter again and beats them...then Ill start the top 5 pfp talk.

Joe will NOT fight an elite fighter before he retires, at least not one in their prime.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

I think its ridiculous how these Hopkins fans praise him one second then call him old and washed up the next. His age isn't a factor dudes been old since forever if anything he's in much better shape now. Nobody can knock him out and nobody has really dominated him yet hes a hasbeen thats going by on name recognition alone.... pff sure.

Calzaghe is not as strong as Hopkins, he's not as strong as Kessler, he definitely doesn't look as strong as Lacy. Yet he's beaten them all and im not sure what power has to do with it when its all about skill. Joe took 2 viscious right hands from Hopkins and kept coming at him. thats heart. if it wasn't for the phantom sack punch we would've seen him dominate. But even if Joe beat Hopkins convincingly these guys still would give him no credit.

Watever. Its funny Hopkins impressed me the first few rounds and then made me hate him again with his super dirty tactics. lol

See, this is what I have a problem with. I am still trying to find what part of the fight Joe dominate. IMO Dominate is what Cotto did to Gomez. Guess we have a different opinion of what dominate means.

[Complex]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

tko is every bit as good as a ko...i never said joe was more powerful puncher. But he can hit hard enough to be an undefeted champion at his weight and put people away....did you see lacy's face at the end of that fight? It was totally mangled.

what are even arguing about anymore...go back a few pages and read the article i posted from east side boxing comparing the two's ring record.

A mangled face does not mean power. Lacy took several hundred flush shots to the face and finished the fight to a decision. If any of us hit lacy that many times we are bound to bruise him.

Joe is a good boxer with good technique, but this 'power' argument is losing steam fast. Joe gets you with volume of punches, which is what fighters without significant power do.

In our discussion of power, a TKO is not the equivalent of a KO. TKO's can take place for cuts, injury, quitting on the stool, or simply the descretion of the judge.

[JayBee74]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

I think he would consider fighting Calzaghe at LH. The money for that fight would be huge.

Haye struggles to make it at 200 (current cruiser limit) and look how cut he is-virtually impossible for him to get to 175. These fighters are going in two different directions.

[JayBee74]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

how long has Joe been in that p4p listing, considering he has 40 wins for his career.

again, most of these arguments are telling me what Hop did NOT do, but little are making a solid argument for what Joe did.

What difference does that make? You said he wasn't even in the pound for pound discussion.
As far as what Joe did or didn't do that wasn't the reason for my post. You said Bernard blew it by not throwing enough punches. By the way, a lot of times when a fighter isn't able to do something it usually has to do with his opponent.

Pleae list your top 5 P4P.

List yours first so I can counterlist you.

Joe will NOT fight an elite fighter before he retires, at least not one in their prime.

Who has he ducked lately? Lacy (whatever your opinion of Jeff is, remember he was very feared at the time-a real animal in FN3), Kessler, and Hopkins. That is simple not a fair statement.

[allBthere]

Re: Countdown To Calzage-Hopkins 20 days away.

A mangled face does not mean power. Lacy took several hundred flush shots to the face and finished the fight to a decision. If any of us hit lacy that many times we are bound to bruise him.

Joe is a good boxer with good technique, but this 'power' argument is losing steam fast. Joe gets you with volume of punches, which is what fighters without significant power do.

In our discussion of power, a TKO is not the equivalent of a KO. TKO's can take place for cuts, injury, quitting on the stool, or simply the descretion of the judge.

all of which mean the other fighter is seriously hurt, which in conclusions means that his punches are not "slaps" for eff's sake. No he does not punch like Rocky Marciano, or Floyd Patterson, but his version of a hard punch is not a SLAP for the love of christ...