Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I'm pretty sure we can move the way Overeem in UFC3.. Not sure what you're asking..



That has less to do with head movement and more with clinching. But I agree and I think plenty others do too that it's indeed underdeveloped..

Note how he shifts from orthodox to southpaw to deliver that hook. It's not a lead left hook but a soutpaw rear hook. It's shown better in another gif but couldn't find it.


It has as much to do with head movement as a counter. The clinching animation is off.

I can't find the gif of Ferguson catching Vannata but it perfectly illustrates this.

Also the head control gif is better illustrated by the Lawler v RDA gif. Lawler is moving his head but RDA is constantly probing and pawing to catch that head and line up his shots.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Note how he shifts from orthodox to southpaw to deliver that hook. It's not a lead left hook but a soutpaw rear hook. It's shown better in another gif but couldn't find it.

Yeah, shifting punches were something I was really looking forward to, but it appears that you can't do them unless you have a special shifting punch move just like in UFC 2. I tried to throw a punch while hitting R3 to switch stances in hopes of a drop shift, but it didn't happen.

In UFC 2 shifting punches were the Switch Overhand and Switch Straight that Dominick Cruz and TJ had, but you can free form shifting punches.

In the gif, Overeem throws his strike in the middle of a step. Shogun's classic hook is a shifting hook that was in UD3, but not UFC 2.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

The head movement? LOL nope

Fight Night is still light years ahead of it. Other MMA games? Sure

And for the 100th time. What do you think of this?

So... the only functional change would be having the midway lean, which would chain quickly to another lean... right?

For this to be relevant, people would have had to try chaining leans (with only the second one being timed to a strike. If people try this stuff a lot and find out that's unfairly slow, then that could spark an interesting conversation. For now I just know it's possible, even if you start with a moving lean. I don't know if it's viable. We gotta try it more.

And even if that were the case, simply speeding up the chaining of the leans could be the solution.

[johnmangala]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Yeah, shifting punches were something I was really looking forward to, but it appears that you can't do them unless you have a special shifting punch move just like in UFC 2. I tried to throw a punch while hitting R3 to switch stances in hopes of a drop shift, but it didn't happen.

In UFC 2 shifting punches were the Switch Overhand and Switch Straight that Dominick Cruz and TJ had, but you can free form shifting punches.

In the gif, Overeem throws his strike in the middle of a step. Shogun's classic hook is a shifting hook that was in UD3, but not UFC 2.

You could sorta do shifts in EAUFC1 (not tied to head movement tho).

That was pretty much removed in EAUFC2, but you could shift body punches and some kicks; to the head was treated differently and occurred rarely but wasn't reaponsive as EAUFC1 and you couldn't shift straight punches.


Shogun finished Liddel with a shift hook, TJ and Cruz are all about this as well.

[MalformedDC2009]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I think a valid defence (not one I agree with 100%, but valid) is that this current head movement system works great on an actual gameplay level, not a realism one, but as a mechanic in a video game it's pretty great, and it's entirely reasonable to fear that an attempt at a more realistic system would be implemented poorly or in such a way that it adversely the gameplay.

I do agree that there's no reason to be against some hypothetical perfect realistic head movement system, but I also think there's a reason to be worried about it being implemented poorly and ending up worse than 3's head movement, like, I really doubt that the fact that back leans dodged almost everything in 2 was intentional, so it's fair to assume that kind of oversight is possible in a 360 degree head movement system.

I've been one of the ones arguing for 360 degree head movement. But I'm starting to see the other side, and realize that the current system isn't bad; especially from a gameplay perspective.

This prevents cheese such as the back lean. Or poor hit detection issues resulting in a hit or miss when it should have been the opposite. This digital system prevents those hit detection issues from interfering with gameplay. It's probably not possible for them to perfect hit detection with the current engine either. So this current system may be the best choice for the Ignite engine.

I might be starting to come around to the other side on this one. Especially since I now realize the delay is INTENDED based on ratings.

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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

So... the only functional change would be having the midway lean, which would chain quickly to another lean... right?

For this to be relevant, people would have had to try chaining leans (with only the second one being timed to a strike. If people try this stuff a lot and find out that's unfairly slow, then that could spark an interesting conversation. For now I just know it's possible, even if you start with a moving lean. I don't know if it's viable. We gotta try it more.

And even if that were the case, simply speeding up the chaining of the leans could be the solution.

Full body leans should be relatively slow though. The mid-way leans would be more responsive (less start up and recovery plus smaller deadzone) but have less evasion properties. They should require stricter timing.

That would be a bit different than what we currently have while keeping the meat and potatos of the original system

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Full body leans should be relatively slow though. The mid-way leans would be more responsive (less start up and recovery plus smaller deadzone) but have less evasion properties. They should require stricter timing.

That would be a bit different than what we currently have while keeping the meat and potatos of the original system

But from what I udnerstood, the parcial leans wouldn't actually evade punches, right? So, that would only be a good business if you want to feint a lean before going for a real one.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

But from what I udnerstood, the parcial leans wouldn't actually evade punches, right? So, that would only be a good business if you want to feint a lean before going for a real one.

They still would evade strikes but be based more on timing since it isnt a full commitment to any direction.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

"It's not about moving a lot. It's about moving a little. You can move a little from any position. And that's really how to use slipping technique, because your opponent is going to throw punches from all angles all the time, everywhere."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V84r8Cf5DTc?start=131" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's straight from the mouth of a boxing trainer. I'm not sure how anyone can watch and listen to that and still defend the 4-way full-commitment system we have now. It flies directly in the face of what this guy is saying. And notice how natural this guy's movement looks. Because his torso has more than 4 fixed angles it can rotate at any moment, since he's a human being and not a robot.

Hot damn I wish this phone would let me like posts.
This is on point.

Having 4 angles is simply oversimplification of a very deep aspect of MMA/Combat sports in general. It works, don't get me wrong, but with the whole emphasis on movement of UFC 3, it seems the one of the most limited aspects of the game is the ability to move your head..

Simply put, 4 slips, especially at stationary isn't enough. 8 is a compromise I'd happily take. But as we've discussed before 360* full control and analog accuracy is the way to go.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

They still would evade strikes but be based more on timing since it isnt a full commitment to any direction.

"In the 30% zone your head still gets hit by whatever punch is thrown."

I must be missing something.

Hot damn I wish this phone would let me like posts.
This is on point.

Having 4 angles is simply oversimplification of a very deep aspect of MMA/Combat sports in general. It works, don't get me wrong, but with the whole emphasis on movement of UFC 3, it seems the one of the most limited aspects of the game is the ability to move your head..

Simply put, 4 slips, especially at stationary isn't enough. 8 is a compromise I'd happily take. But as we've discussed before 360* full control and analog accuracy is the way to go.

What would the diagonal slips do?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

My impression was that you cant sit in a particular spot when at 30% and not get hit. Like the way it is now you can pretty much just duck hooks/straights all day.

If you go only 30% down they’ll still hit you but now you’ll have the ability to quickly shift left or right to dodge

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

My impression was that you cant sit in a particular spot when at 30% and not get hit. Like the way it is now you can pretty much just duck hooks/straights all day.

If you go only 30% down they’ll still hit you but now you’ll have the ability to quickly shift left or right to dodge

I'm not aware of this at all, but I thought if you sustained a duck, punches would eventually track down to you in UFC 3. If they don't they should.

[MartialMind]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I'm not aware of this at all, but I thought if you sustained a duck, punches would eventually track down to you in UFC 3. If they don't they should.

Yes. If you sustain a lean I can simply walk up and hit you right in the head.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Yes. If you sustain a lean I can simply walk up and hit you right in the head.

With that confirmed, I think this system works perfectly as a cross between realism and balanced gameplay.

We absolutely do not need full 360 FNC head movement for an MMA game. Add some complimentary animations during movement to compensate for potential spotty looks.

We do not need to replicate the full chaotic nature of MMA in game. Ducking should get you hit with uppercuts, leaning right/left should get you hit with hooks 100% of the time. This is a game and sacrifices must be made for balance and competent mechanics that guarantee skilled players come out on top.

I really don't see the appeal adding head movement mechanics that less than 5% of the roster use and the ones that do only rarely when this current system works great and has balanced, predictable outcomes that also allow for depth.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

My impression was that you cant sit in a particular spot when at 30% and not get hit. Like the way it is now you can pretty much just duck hooks/straights all day.

If you go only 30% down they’ll still hit you but now you’ll have the ability to quickly shift left or right to dodge

As the others have said, you have to actually be moving in order to evade. Sitting somewhere won't do anything.