Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I think youre actually a little bit deluded when it comes to how many people want the in depth options you're going on about its the outliers of the outliers people that soley live for that game and play it 8+hours a day, no one is sitting down for a casual game of 2k with sim settings.

When it comes to EA games and the user base just look at Fifa, they make it and respond to glitches in patches but its a bare minimum upgrade on previous versions.

UFC sells a fraction of what Fifa does, take that fraction and find an even smaller subset of people that want a thousand options.

The games development is what it is, its genuinely a super irrelevant topic, nothing gets changed from 50 year long threads like this.

I dont know how I'm deluded when I never even spoke about "how many people want in-depth options". Even the post you quoted doesnt even address that.

My post was about the lengths that each company will go to satisfy its different user bases. 2k gives sim gamers a ton of options to make the game as sim as you want it. EA typically tries to find a middle ground and doesnt provide as many options.

[SUGATA]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I haven't had a chance to look at the dead zone, but at most it will buy you one extra frame. And even then, it would probably only buy you one extra frame some of the time.

This is very easy.

1) How to notice difference in DEAD ZONE on analog sticks:
hold controller on your eye's level, start slowly tilt right analog stick... pay attention at which tilt degree it makes a sygnal (Sway starts)

2) This dead zone is NOT for solving "against accidental inputs" as Solid mentioned
Why? because other actions has 0 Dead Zone - LS has 0 Dead zone in Walking, Lunges, strike inputs... No logic!
RS FOR SWAYS has 50% Dead zone - it is terribly huge!

3) The problem is not in DELAY of input (and EVEN quickly tilting RS from one edge to another edge is MORE than 1 frame, i though it will be at least 5-10 frames.. 5-10 frames of mechanical delay... not good), but in UNRESPONSIVENESS and UNRELIABLE of input:
you need to make quick series of several follow up sways, one time you failed an input (40% not 50%) and instead of Sway you will get Standing opened = loose.

> NEED to make Dead zone 0 for RS Sways too.
And even better - give us an OPTION slider "Dead zone size" which has many action games, so every player could tune it for himself.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

2) This dead zone is NOT for solving "against accidental inputs" as Solid mentioned
Why? because other actions has 0 Dead Zone - LS has 0 Dead zone in Walking, Lunges, strike inputs... No logic!
RS FOR SWAYS has 50% Dead zone - it is terribly huge!
- At least on PS4, flicking the stick in one direction can make it spring back to the opposite one very lightly. I suppose the deadzone is about making this light accidental input not count. If LS doesn't have a deadzone (not even for lunges), it's probably because the consequences of slipping are more severe. Note that I don't disagree the current deadzone for slipping might be too big. But accidental inputs are a real thing in other games.

3) The problem is not in DELAY of input (and EVEN quickly tilting RS from one edge to another edge is MORE than 1 frame, i though it will be at least 5-10 frames.. 5-10 frames of mechanical delay... not good)...
- Whaaaaaat?!

........................................

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Does Madden have online sliders? FIFA? NHL? I swear those are only offline like UFC.

Nhl and Live just started allowing you to edit players. Madden didn’t allow you to edit players for a couple of years recently. During that time, EA was still pushing toward that gray area.

My point was never that I think EAs path is the right path. I don’t. My favorite EA games are the ones that give you the option to customize the game how you like.

My point is that the gray area is what EA always shoots for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Madden has connected franchise where you can use edited rosters/sliders online.

NHl fanbase hates their devs lol. Im a casual hockey fan but never invested in the game because the fanbase openly talks about how ignored they feel.

Fifa I dont know much about. From what I hear their gameplay satisfies the hardcore fanbase.

[SUGATA]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

........................................

please, dont try to find logic where it does not exist.
UD3 has 0 dead zone on analog sticks for sways = no any problems = the best sway responsiveness ever.

And YES, from one edge to another edge RS = MORE than 1 frame 100%.
1 frame = 16,6 ms
so 5 frames = 83 ms = 0.083 sec
AT LEAST 0.083 sec but i am sure = 0.16 sec
so very suprised by your reaction on this numbers especially with yr technical knowledge...

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Madden has connected franchise where you can use edited rosters/sliders online.

NHl fanbase hates their devs lol. Im a casual hockey fan but never invested in the game because the fanbase openly talks about how ignored they feel.

Fifa I dont know much about. From what I hear their gameplay satisfies the hardcore fanbase.

Connected Franchise didnt always have roster edits. They added it in either year 2 or 3 of that feature. I know because I didnt buy Madden the first year that Connected Franchise was in that game for that reason.

You said "EA gets away with “gray area” in other games because they allow you to edit offline/online both sliders and the players."

My point is EA shoots for the "gray area" whether its a game with roster edits or sliders.

Also, they dont really "get away with it". Madden gets skewered by the hardcore community every year. Same with NHL. Same with Live. Same with FIFA (the hardcore community has the same complaints (lack of fouls/unrealistic team tactics) every year).

With that said, thats EA's approach when it comes to all games. Never too arcade. Never too much of a sim.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Connected Franchise didnt always have roster edits. They added it in either year 2 or 3 of that feature. I know because I didnt buy Madden the first year that Connected Franchise was in that game for that reason.

You said "EA gets away with “gray area” in other games because they allow you to edit offline/online both sliders and the players."

My point is EA shoots for the "gray area" whether its a game with roster edits or sliders.

Also, they dont really "get away with it". Madden gets skewered by the hardcore community every year. Same with NHL. Same with Live. Same with FIFA (the hardcore community has the same complaints (lack of fouls/unrealistic team tactics) every year).

With that said, thats EA's approach when it comes to all games. Never too arcade. Never too much of a sim.

The main problem with fifa is that its too arcady and thats the biggest complaint.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Connected Franchise didnt always have roster edits. They added it in either year 2 or 3 of that feature. I know because I didnt buy Madden the first year that Connected Franchise was in that game for that reason.

You said "EA gets away with “gray area” in other games because they allow you to edit offline/online both sliders and the players."

My point is EA shoots for the "gray area" whether its a game with roster edits or sliders.

Also, they dont really "get away with it". Madden gets skewered by the hardcore community every year. Same with NHL. Same with Live. Same with FIFA (the hardcore community has the same complaints (lack of fouls/unrealistic team tactics) every year).

With that said, thats EA's approach when it comes to all games. Never too arcade. Never too much of a sim.

Madden is still one of their most successful franchises and a large part of that is the ability to edit the game to your liking. Agreed on them failing with NHL/Live. I wish I could discuss Fifa more but I don't know anything about it.

Even if we’re looking at their other franchises everything points to more options/realism being the way too go. Live failed because they tried so hard go appease casuals. Madden (still arcadey) had taken steps towards being more realistic every year.

And you can add the fact the the first couple of games werent received that well despite being arcadish. All signs point towards realism being the way to go or at least giving us the option to choose.

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Madden is still one of their most successful franchises and a large part of that is the ability to edit the game to your liking. Agreed on them failing with NHL/Live. I wish I could discuss Fifa more but I don't know anything about it.

Even if we’re looking at their other franchises everything points to more options/realism being the way too go. Live failed because they tried so hard go appease casuals. Madden (still arcadey) had taken steps towards being more realistic every year.

And you can add the fact the the first couple of games werent received that well despite being arcadish. All signs point towards realism being the way to go or at least giving us the option to choose.

Again, you are acting as if I'm arguing against developers giving gamers more options.

Once again, I'M NOT. I was just laying out what each company does. 2k gives us all the options. EA doesnt. Its two different approaches. I prefer the 2k route.

We completely disagree when it comes to Madden. Can you edit players? Sure. Can your edits (players and sliders) result in an ultra-realistic NFL game. Hell no. ****, they took out defensive holding this year. They made it so that even if you moved the defensive holding slider to max, you will never get a DH call. Why did they do that? Because arcade and comp players dont like DH calls. Their dev team admitted that. So Madden isnt focused on being realistic. They are trying to do what they can to keep the hardcore sim crowd happy (and failing to do that) while focusing on the arcade and comp crowd.

How this relates to UFC is that in my opinion, this dev team has similar goals (make the game appeal to every gamer) but they are do a better job than Madden.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

If you think EA UFC is doing a better job at being realistic all we can do is agree to disagree at this point

i think the ability to edit players/sliders let’s madden give us a more realistic experience than what EA UFC has so far.

The defensive holding is an issue but they’ve also added realistic stuff. Tuning injuries and allowing off ball injuries is a big one. Run defense and gap discipline being another.

I will never call Madden a perfect sim but if I play around with the sliders enough, edit ratings and playbooks I usually can get a game that comes close enough. I just want that same freedom with this game(off and online).

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

2) This dead zone is NOT for solving "against accidental inputs" as Solid mentioned
Why? because other actions has 0 Dead Zone - LS has 0 Dead zone in Walking, Lunges, strike inputs... No logic!
RS FOR SWAYS has 50% Dead zone - it is terribly huge!

Two things:

1) You'll likely experience controllstick snapback issues with a 0 dead zone.
2) Since there are only 4 directions, registering the controlstick's position immediately might result into significantly more missed inputs. If you don't input your preferred sway perfectly straight, it might read your left sway as up or down and vice versa.

EVEN quickly tilting RS from one edge to another edge is MORE than 1 frame

Wait, are you suggesting that it takes a person more than one frame to go from tilting all the way left to all the way right?

[SUGATA]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Two things:

1) You'll likely experience controllstick snapback issues with a 0 dead zone.
2) Since there are only 4 directions, registering the controlstick's position immediately might result into significantly more missed inputs. If you don't input your preferred sway perfectly straight, it might read your left sway as up or down and vice versa.




Wait, are you suggesting that it takes a person more than one frame to go from tilting all the way left to all the way right?

1) When i am saying "0 Dead zone" i dont mention truly native 0 of course, i mean tight enough - THE SAME as we already have now on LS for walking/lunge. Just test it by yourself and compare with RS dead zone, you will see large difference.

2) Again, with natively lets say 10 Dead zone (instead of 50) we will not have issues with described "wrong" inputs (i have not any issues in UD3 at all with any types of failed inputs) but at the same time will have much more ability to link our Sways one into another.
As a proof: now Dead zone on LS for walking/lunge is close to 0 BUT we dont have described in yr posts problems at all.

3) Yes. I described above concrete numbers. It can not take less then 0.018 sec (5 frames) you may be sure.
What could these 5 frames mean? based on GPD frame data even 5 frames could play a role for ex in swaying under 2nd follow up strike (1st is blocked).

If you dont believe to me please look at this gif:



This Punch startup phase (hand moving fwd until iе fully straightened; moving hand back is another phase - recovery phase) = 5 frames, its recovery phase = 10frames, so with Hit phase total move is approx 16 frames.
Now look at this move speed and compare its speed to yr RS moving from edge to edge speed in combat conditions... i am pretty sure it takes 5-10 frames.
> So, i am repeating again, making Dead zone for RS (Sways) close to 0 is CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT for Sway usage responsiveness and fluidity. Devs, just TEST IT and compare with current 50% large Dead zone.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

1) When i am saying "0 Dead zone" i dont mention truly native 0 of course, i mean tight enough - THE SAME as we already have now on LS for walking/lunge. Just test it by yourself and compare with RS dead zone, you will see large difference.

Then don't say zero..

And I don't have the beta available, do you?

2) Again, with natively lets say 10 Dead zone (instead of 50) we will not have issues with described "wrong" inputs (i have not any issues in UD3 at all with any types of failed inputs) but at the same time will have much more ability to link our Sways one into another.
As a proof: now Dead zone on LS for walking/lunge is close to 0 BUT we dont have described in yr posts problems at all.

Again, don't say zero if you don't mean zero.

3) Yes.

So you think it's physically impossible for a person to flick their stick from holding it all the way left, to holding it all the way right in 1 frame?

Not much to say then other than that you're wrong. It's not even that hard..

I described above concrete numbers. It can not take less then 0.018 sec (5 frames) you may be sure.

What cannot take less than 5 frames and why?

What could these 5 frames mean? based on GPD frame data even 5 frames could play a role for ex in swaying under 2nd follow up strike (1st is blocked).

I don't know what you're saying here either.

If you dont believe to me please look at this gif:



This Punch startup phase (hand moving fwd until iе fully straightened; moving hand back is another phase - recovery phase) = 5 frames, its recovery phase = 10frames, so with Hit phase total move is approx 16 frames.

Okay..

Now look at this move speed and compare its speed to yr RS moving from edge to edge speed in combat conditions... i am pretty sure it takes 5-10 frames.

Nope. Not even close. I'm way way faster.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

please, dont try to find logic where it does not exist.
UD3 has 0 dead zone on analog sticks for sways = no any problems = the best sway responsiveness ever.

1) When i am saying "0 Dead zone" i dont mention truly native 0 of course, i mean tight enough

Yeah. Zero logic.

And about those 5-10 frames... when you play video games, are you inside the Matrix?

[SUGATA]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Yeah. Zero logic.

And about those 5-10 frames... when you play video games, are you inside the Matrix?

No logic to do tight Dead zone on LS lunges and huge on RS sway. In UD3 that was fine.
I don’t understan in what you disagree w me.
I don’t understand yr sarcasm now. Please don’t do it dude. If you want me to explain something - ask, don’t troll.
NATIVELY 0 dead zone is not good b/c even new analog sticks has backlash
0 Dead zone in in game slider options is a bit wider to solve this .
We need THIS
We need Dead zone THE SAME as we have in beta on LS walking- I tested it fine a close to 0.
5 frames is practical value in fighting games, in real life not in the matrix.
If we have mechanical delay input + more important unreliable = bad for fighting