The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[Solid_Altair]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Not true. Read this - https://forums.operationsports.com/f...g-more-24.html

You'd be better off reading a few pages up to and after that for context but my post on that page is enough to dispel this by itself.

I saw the first two videos.

In the head kick one, the head was returning to center, moving away from the kick.

In the uppercut video it was clearly triggering vuln. There was one rock and one case where the head health gets zapped to about half. If you really still think there was a case where vuln didn't trigger, please make a clear reference to a point in a video, or post a gif.

So, no dispell.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I saw the first two videos.

In the head kick one, the head was returning to center, moving away from the kick.

In the uppercut video it was clearly triggering vuln. There was one rock and one case where the head health gets zapped to about half. If you really still think there was a case where vuln didn't trigger, please make a clear reference to a point in a video, or post a gif.

So, no dispell.

Okay. Cool. Peace. Lol. Say I don't have anything to say... say what you want. I'm not even arguing this. It's futile. If you guys browsing haven't seen the videos... Watch them.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Okay. Cool. Peace. Lol. Say I don't have anything to say... say what you want. I'm not even arguing this. It's futile. If you guys browsing haven't seen the videos... Watch them.

Solid is right, I just looked into it. But that doesn't mean it couldn't use some tuning because it's not completely obvious looking at the video.

The side vulnerability should probably last a few more frames once the return to center starts before it mitigates damage.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Okay. Cool. Peace. Lol. Say I don't have anything to say... say what you want. I'm not even arguing this. It's futile. If you guys browsing haven't seen the videos... Watch them.

But if we set the evidence aside, what is your point, that leans are currently OP because they don't trigger vuln properly?

IMO, they are actually still a bit too good, because of the buff to single counter damage.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

But if we set the evidence aside, what is your point, that leans are currently OP because they don't trigger vuln properly?

IMO, they are actually still a bit too good, because of the buff to single counter damage.

You don't know if he was returning to center... Even if he was... He still leaned into a head kick on screen. Like what bro? Pls don't defend that. You lose all credibility in this argument immediately otherwise. The simple fact is he leaned into my head kick and ate it like a ****ing potato. I'm mad bro. Lol. <3

And the upper one... follow the timestamps - https://forums.operationsports.com/f...g-more-16.html

The mathematics behind it do not matter if they're producing the wrong result. The fact that it's the wrong result doesn't change.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

You don't know if he was returning to center... Even if he was... He still leaned into a head kick on screen. Like what bro? Pls don't defend that. You lose all credibility in this argument immediately otherwise. The simple fact is he leaned into my head kick and ate it like a ****ing potato. I'm mad bro. Lol. <3

And the upper one... follow the timestamps - https://forums.operationsports.com/f...g-more-16.html

The mathematics behind it do not matter if they're producing the wrong result. The fact that it's the wrong result doesn't change.

First example, he wasn't ducking, he was striking after the duck. And what makes you think he didn't eat vuln? Because he didn't get rocked?

[xtremeba1000]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I don't have any videos but I get rocked after throwing my first punch regardless of how long I wait to throw it. I am a counter fighter but I don't sway recklessly unless they throw the same thing over and over. The game is completely different and I'm gonna have to learn how to play this new game

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

First example, he wasn't ducking, he was striking after the duck. And what makes you think he didn't eat vuln? Because he didn't get rocked?

Look at his head damage mate. It doesn't go down nearly enough if he was eating vulnerability damage (maybe he was sometimes idk but I'd have no way of knowing considering I repeatedly countered his repetitive cheesy BS). As far as the time I got a rock... It took double uppers to do it. Like I said tho... Let's say he is eating vulnerability damage... He's not eating enough for the risk/reward game he's playing. A duck/upper is so powerful now it seems. Ducking makes you invulnerable to body shots as well (should make you vulnerable to them). A hook to the body when you're ducking is going to hurt a lot.

The bottom line is that what happens on screen should mean he's punished. And you can say "he didn't eat heavy vulnerability damage because he was doing xyz" but at the end of the day... I catch that dude at different times in the duck throughout the video and nothing. It's the same with the other videos. All strikes are landed at ever so slightly different times but none of them seem to matter much and the opponent can carry on doing it... and he does. With no care in the world that I'm directly countering what he's doing.

This is partly why the game felt like a dice roll before and although that has improved because it's slower and less chaotic... There is still a large amount of luck involved on counters and vulnerability.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The thing with vuln is that it's very organic. It depends on where you hit him and where, besides what he was doing, of course. In that case you didn't catch him at the peak of a duck. You caught him probably after the peak of an upper, with an upper. The upper doesn't concede high vuln to uppers, it concedes high vuln to the opposite side of the punch (during execution). So, he ate some vuln, not much. He took some extra damage. It just wasn't enough to rock him.

I won't check all the examples if the first ones I check are always false positives.

[SUGATA]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Btw, i asked for Sway cancelling 1.5 years ago in my New striking concept:

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/903027-new-stand-up-feint-mechanics-ea-ufc-3-concept-ideas-discussions.html

8) Sway cancel as a feint into Sway countering (trap in a trap).

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/903027-new-stand-up-feint-mechanics-ea-ufc-3-concept-ideas-discussions.html

There are more details.

Now if this solution is accepted - the most important thing must to be a determining the best frames windows sizes for all Sway cancel phases and bonuses' sizes for each situation. It must be carefully balanced.

[dfab14]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Imo the meta is timing. Time the counter time the take down time the sway it seems to be about timing and finding that sweet spot

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Solid_Altair]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Imo the meta is timing. Time the counter time the take down time the sway it seems to be about timing and finding that sweet spot

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

I do think many are underestimating this factor. Now that the excessive speed of the leaned punches were adressed (along with other issues they had), the timing is remarkably fair and can be used to avoid 50/50s more than ever.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The thing with vuln is that it's very organic. It depends on where you hit him and where, besides what he was doing, of course. In that case you didn't catch him at the peak of a duck. You caught him probably after the peak of an upper, with an upper. The upper doesn't concede high vuln to uppers, it concedes high vuln to the opposite side of the punch (during execution). So, he ate some vuln, not much. He took some extra damage. It just wasn't enough to rock him.

I won't check all the examples if the first ones I check are always false positives.

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WHERE'S THE PEAK FAM? WHERE?????

Did you even watch the whole duck/upper video btw? C'mon bro. This ain't right. lol. I don't want to have to time something completely perfectly to get results when all he needs to do is hit a sway counter to get way better results. The upper I hit on the duck in this video does roughly the same amount of damage as the one that hits when he doesn't duck.

Upping vulnerability on sways would just make people more reluctant to spam them. I just want to be rewarded if I'm making reads and being the more intelligent player. This game does not work like that though. Too much luck involved.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Imo the meta is timing. Time the counter time the take down time the sway it seems to be about timing and finding that sweet spot

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

So wrong. The meta is sway spam like a mad man because its safer to sway spam and strike than pick single shot counters. Timing is more guessing since you have your mythical input delay on the controls.

[dfab14]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

So wrong. The meta is sway spam like a mad man because its safer to sway spam and strike than pick single shot counters. Timing is more guessing since you have your mythical input delay on the controls.

Then throw off the timing by faking strikes

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app