The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[SxxthPxw]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I fought you near release and i remember you using the bob and weave like it was going out of style. No wonder you are defending it.

Fought him today and he is actually really good. I don't think he initiated with a sway once, the only sways were timed and perfect like they should be and was a fun realistic fight overall. And he dropped my ***.

The vulnerability being hard to time with the slight input delay of online is the problem, along with stationary sways armoring things it shouldn't. Not swaying itself

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Based on what i gathered from your post, it sounds like you want it to be easier to punish people using a defensive style. That doesn't make sense to me. A fighter using a defensive style should be harder to punish with strikes. Aggressive fighters should be easier to punish....not defensive.

Also you guys have to remember that frames control a lot of the striking interactions. If you successfully slip a strike then you gain frame advantage as you should. You should get rewarded for having the right timing. If you slip all willy nilly not evading a strike, then you don't get ANY frame advantage.

Post patch I've fought many sway spammers that were pretty effective pre-patch and i've destroyed them. So im not sure what you guys are referring to honestly. The only time i use sways/slips is after i throw strikes(as a defensive maneuver)....or if someone keeps lunging forward with jabs or straights. A slip counter punch will slow down aggressive fighters constantly coming forward.

Confirmed as watching none of my videos. I also think you're misunderstanding my points.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/928203-ea-sports-ufc-3-patch-adds-new-fighters-gameplay-additions-fixes-ai-tuning-more-16.html

If you don't have time to watch this and look at the timestamps... Okay. But you shouldn't be speaking blindly if you don't understand the opposing side's stance. If somebody sways into a strike I throw... It should matter. Unless it's timed to the absolutely millisecond it doesn't matter. Duck/Upper will do much more damage and produce way more rocks than trying to counter it will.

You also get frozen every time a strike you throw is dodged. I actually didn't think of it like a parry but it kind of is. It's just not quite as bad.



So since you're referencing Floyd so much... Let's use this example. Maidana knows Floyd loves the pull counter so he counters it by throwing his rear hand after Floyd dodges the jab and rocks him. In game you just freeze and can't do that.

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Confirmed as watching none of my videos. I also think you're misunderstanding my points.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/928203-ea-sports-ufc-3-patch-adds-new-fighters-gameplay-additions-fixes-ai-tuning-more-16.html

If you don't have time to watch this and look at the timestamps... Okay. But you shouldn't be speaking blindly if you don't understand the opposing side's stance. If somebody sways into a strike I throw... It should matter. Unless it's timed to the absolutely millisecond it doesn't matter. Duck/Upper will do much more damage and produce way more rocks than trying to counter it will.

You also get frozen every time a strike you throw is dodged. I actually didn't think of it like a parry but it kind of is. It's just not quite as bad.



So since you're referencing Floyd so much... Let's use this example. Maidana knows Floyd loves the pull counter so he counters it by throwing his rear hand after Floyd dodges the jab and rocks him. In game you just freeze and can't do that.

Just watched that video...

You aren’t countering him effectively. Every attack you initiate with a slip, I would’ve went left hook Larry. He kept throwing the rear uppercut so you should’ve slipped to the right and hit him with a lead uppercut... you also threw body kicks far too close and got countered.

Back slip headmovement can also evade uppercuts but you stood still a few times and took them on your block???

For such a top player you have a fair few wholes in your game.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Just watched that video...

You aren’t countering him effectively. Every attack you initiate with a slip, I would’ve went left hook Larry. He kept throwing the rear uppercut so you should’ve slipped to the right and hit him with a lead uppercut... you also threw body kicks far too close and got countered.

Back slip headmovement can also evade uppercuts but you stood still a few times and took them on your block???

For such a top player you have a fair few wholes in your game.

Every attack I initiate with a slip????? Look at how many naked uppers I throw to counter his duck/upper. Watch again. I also did slip and counter but it barely did ****. You got a ps4, right? Come try expose my holes bro lol. I don't mean to be a dick but seriously. Yh... I threw a body kick too close. It happens. Kenetic also got punished for throwing leg kicks too close on ESFL.

I'm out. I'm not arguing something that is so clearly flawed because I'm just going to come off as condescending. You guys can work it out for yourselves or we can keep an unbalanced game. It's whatever at this point.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Single strikes should be more powerful and have a chance to end fights. So people sway spam for obvious advantage of rocks and knockdowns off sways. Kicks don't even register right on guys swaying or even stepping into body kicks sometimes. The physics in this game are worse than 2.

Leg kicks don't even always trip opponents with one foot in the air. I mean damn how many things did they go backwards on from ufc 2?

All fighters should also have intercept knees and elbows. Some fighters don't even have taunts or only have one (Korean Zombie has none).

Stat grouping was very poor decision making too and is ignored when asked about it. How much about mma do these devs actually know?

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Every attack I initiate with a slip????? Look at how many naked uppers I throw to counter his duck/upper. Watch again. I also did slip and counter but it barely did ****. You got a ps4, right? Come try expose my holes bro lol. I don't mean to be a dick but seriously. Yh... I threw a body kick too close. It happens. Kenetic also got punished for throwing leg kicks too close on ESFL.

I'm out. I'm not arguing something that is so clearly flawed because I'm just going to come off as condescending. You guys can work it out for yourselves or we can keep an unbalanced game. It's whatever at this point.

Unfortunately I don’t have a PS4.

You were bragging not long ago about you were abusing the exploits, and how you are the best pressure fighter in the game.

It seems you are just salty about losing. That player was very predictable and you kept falling for the same trap over and over again. Your pressure fighting didn’t work this time, so you have to come on the forum and complain. The game has to be broken and it’s nothing to do with you because you are a top player.

[xtremeba1000]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Confirmed as watching none of my videos. I also think you're misunderstanding my points.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/928203-ea-sports-ufc-3-patch-adds-new-fighters-gameplay-additions-fixes-ai-tuning-more-16.html

If you don't have time to watch this and look at the timestamps... Okay. But you shouldn't be speaking blindly if you don't understand the opposing side's stance. If somebody sways into a strike I throw... It should matter. Unless it's timed to the absolutely millisecond it doesn't matter. Duck/Upper will do much more damage and produce way more rocks than trying to counter it will.

You also get frozen every time a strike you throw is dodged. I actually didn't think of it like a parry but it kind of is. It's just not quite as bad.



So since you're referencing Floyd so much... Let's use this example. Maidana knows Floyd loves the pull counter so he counters it by throwing his rear hand after Floyd dodges the jab and rocks him. In game you just freeze and can't do that.

THIS IS MY PROBLEM WITH SWAYING!!!!!!!!!!!! It's almost like in ufc 2 with parries. If you time a sway you freeze your opponent for .5 a second. If i throw a combo and they sway the first punch and don't counter my combo stops. why?

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Unfortunately I don’t have a PS4.

You were bragging not long ago about you were abusing the exploits, and how you are the best pressure fighter in the game.

It seems you are just salty about losing. That player was very predictable and you kept falling for the same trap over and over again. Your pressure fighting didn’t work this time, so you have to come on the forum and complain. The game has to be broken and it’s nothing to do with you because you are a top player.

Bro... I fight on the outside. All my threads have been asking for buffs to outside fighting. I was saying I use the inside fighting cheese because it was most effective in winning on ranked. Unfairly so. I've won most games since the patch (most have been fighting on the outside). People who have fought me can confirm. I'm top ten in the world and have two accounts in the top 100. I was fighting like that to try and punish the duck/upper but the game didn't allow me to do so. I don't think you even watched because you're talking about me slipping every time I initiate an attack. No, that's what he was doing.

I sway away from the power side to try and counter the duck/upper because I was tired of throwing naked uppers on his duck and nothing happening. I did it like ten times. Did you even watch??? I then got caught with a head kick that I swayed away from. If you want to argue I got caught returning to center then you have to realise that the times I was countering him were FAR more well timed than me apparently returning to center when I got caught with the head kick. Which doesn't actually happen on screen.

I know I just said it but this my last post in this thread. If people argue when the evidence is in front of them there's nothing more to argue about. It's like someone arguing the sky is red. What more am I supposed to say? I don't want to keep repeating myself.

[Sivo]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

If u dont have a gaming monitor/wired controller/wired internet/good ping/good reflexes u just have to randomly guess when to throw a hook to catch them swaying but if u catch them too early in the animation it does nothing. It should atleast pull them out of the sway and force them to reset to centre. Same thing with body kicks and leg kicks.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The reason i'm defending this so much is because I believe GPD and the devs did a great job fixing the balance of the game. They are getting way more backlash than they should getting right now and it's unfair. The patch did an excellent job at fixing most of the issues that were really broken. People are just in shock and not adjusting properly yet.


I'm not a sway spammer. I hardly use sways and they are never to initiate offense, because I know that strategy is not effective.

A lot of you seemed to have forgot but i'll post the video to refresh your memory. The devs did a lot of changes from the beta and one of them was the ability to punish someone when they initiated offense off of sways. GPD explains it clearly here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Jonbr-Hphs?start=73" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you think he's lying or is wrong, then here's a video of my OWN gameplay PRE-PATCH showing this in effect. I can tell you that this works 10x better now AFTER the patch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TvnE7I0aSGM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My opponent came at me doing exactly what you guys are complaining about, and look what happens to him almost everytime he swayed/slipped before throwing a striking. He beat me 2 times in the past, but in this fight i had already figured out the counter. Everytime he throws a stupid sway strike, he eats two hooks IMMEDIATELY.

Like I said, that gameplay was PRE-PATCH and the counter works even better now after the patch. I can upload recent gameplay of it when i get home if anyone wants me to. Guys who spam this just won't have the frame advantage most of the time......and you have to recognize this pattern and expose that.



Serengeti i watched your video vs Woodley and you did not punish those sways in the most effective way. You stood there choosing to trade with him knowing that he was slipping and fishing for counters a lot. Despite your not so effective approach to stopping that.....you STILL were able to rock him and get his head health low. It seems like you want a perfect way to stop something like this but still fight they way you normally fight. Often that's not the case to stop certain tactics. Sometimes you have to change up your style a bit when you recognize your opponent doing something over and over.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What's your issue with a stamina tax? There is still objectively excessive head movement, it's not about the punish as much as it being so prominent for GA and power counters etc.

Realistically head movement is tiring. Lunges have a stamina tax and that is arguably less tiring.

I would imagine if people irl used head movment as much as they do in this game people would get dizzy.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Okay. Since that video brings something new to the table I'll respond. He's throwing two strikes after swaying. Not one. Try doing that above but against someone who hugs high block and sways and throws one strike. I'd like to get some games in with you testing it so we can get on the same page here. If I'm wrong... I'll admit defeat. But let's get on the same page. What's your PSN? And this isn't about who's better. I'm not saying if I win it proves anything. We should also get in a party so we can talk about it more clearly and go back and forth easier. I can do it now or in the next few hours. It's not about winning the argument for me... Just making the game better. I'm easy to talk to I promise lol

[AlEx3KillA]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I've heard a lot of people complaining about sway spam, and it being too hard to punish. I thought I'd post a couple of videos showing the most effective punish to side sway spam currently in the game that I was able to find. I'm sure other options are available, but these should give you a taste of what's out there

Here's the first scenario. Someone is spamming side sways trying to slip your straights or uppercuts.

They are spamming different sways, fishing for a counter opportunity and hoping to get lucky.

They won't counter strike unless they confirm the evasion, so they are taking no stamina hit for this action.

How do you punish them?

Well the obvious is to mix in lead hooks and uppercuts, and hope to catch them. But that's a risky game too because if they slip your strike you can eat big counter damage bonus.

Is there another way?

Let's do some frame counting to find a safer option.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9Jynprjyeuw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this example, once I see the side sway animation play out, I immediately throw a lead hook. In this example I'm throwing the hook 16 frames after the sway animation starts, but you could probably extend that to 20 and still be guaranteed a punish.

The strike catches vulnerability on the side of his head coming back from the sway, and he cannot block until the sway completes making this a safe and effective punish.

So what if he's immediately throwing a strike out of the slip? This is a lot more dangerous as I might not react fast enough and intercept his strike in time. How do I punish in that case?

Again, there are a lot of options, but this was the most devastating punish I could find.

Remember that the recovery frames on a wiffed slip strike are quit high. So let's try a short back step and see what happens.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EpFkXNRzIWc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this example, I started the back step 20 frames after the slip started and managed to evade the hook. I immediately countered with an overhand and was able to land an unblock-able strike for a ton of damage.

GPD youn forget what all people asked and did orher useless things on the patch,Add stamina loss on defensive actions like ducking and slipping as now the game have strikes take stamina and defense demons with infinite stamina

[emmdeekay]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The reason i'm defending this so much is because I believe GPD and the devs did a great job fixing the balance of the game. They are getting way more backlash than they should getting right now and it's unfair. The patch did an excellent job at fixing most of the issues that were really broken. People are just in shock and not adjusting properly yet.


I'm not a sway spammer. I hardly use sways and they are never to initiate offense, because I know that strategy is not effective.

A lot of you seemed to have forgot but i'll post the video to refresh your memory. The devs did a lot of changes from the beta and one of them was the ability to punish someone when they initiated offense off of sways. GPD explains it clearly here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Jonbr-Hphs?start=73" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you think he's lying or is wrong, then here's a video of my OWN gameplay PRE-PATCH showing this in effect. I can tell you that this works 10x better now AFTER the patch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TvnE7I0aSGM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My opponent came at me doing exactly what you guys are complaining about, and look what happens to him almost everytime he swayed/slipped before throwing a striking. He beat me 2 times in the past, but in this fight i had already figured out the counter. Everytime he throws a stupid sway strike, he eats two hooks IMMEDIATELY.

Like I said, that gameplay was PRE-PATCH and the counter works even better now after the patch. I can upload recent gameplay of it when i get home if anyone wants me to. Guys who spam this just won't have the frame advantage most of the time......and you have to recognize this pattern and expose that.



Serengeti i watched your video vs Woodley and you did not punish those sways in the most effective way. You stood there choosing to trade with him knowing that he was slipping and fishing for counters a lot. Despite your not so effective approach to stopping that.....you STILL were able to rock him and get his head health low. It seems like you want a perfect way to stop something like this but still fight they way you normally fight. Often that's not the case to stop certain tactics. Sometimes you have to change up your style a bit when you recognize your opponent doing something over and over.

TBF even though that guy is a notorious crybaby I don't think that really disproves what hes saying.

If someone does nothing but mixup sways and throw one and only one strike it can be hard to hurt them. The counter point to this is it really isn't as dangerous to defend against that as people are saying, the one punch power off a sway isn't that good and you can block a combo.

It's a defensive strategy that feels like an aggressive one just because they're up in your face, but if you don't give them the opening they're never gonna hurt you.

I think people aren't using the toolset in the game to the fullest potential, in that guys video there were no feints, no footwork, no leg kicks, just trying to roll dice in the pocket and hope you come out on top.

[Papadoc60]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The reason i'm defending this so much is because I believe GPD and the devs did a great job fixing the balance of the game. They are getting way more backlash than they should getting right now and it's unfair. The patch did an excellent job at fixing most of the issues that were really broken. People are just in shock and not adjusting properly yet.


I'm not a sway spammer. I hardly use sways and they are never to initiate offense, because I know that strategy is not effective.

A lot of you seemed to have forgot but i'll post the video to refresh your memory. The devs did a lot of changes from the beta and one of them was the ability to punish someone when they initiated offense off of sways. GPD explains it clearly here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Jonbr-Hphs?start=73" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you think he's lying or is wrong, then here's a video of my OWN gameplay PRE-PATCH showing this in effect. I can tell you that this works 10x better now AFTER the patch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TvnE7I0aSGM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My opponent came at me doing exactly what you guys are complaining about, and look what happens to him almost everytime he swayed/slipped before throwing a striking. He beat me 2 times in the past, but in this fight i had already figured out the counter. Everytime he throws a stupid sway strike, he eats two hooks IMMEDIATELY.

Like I said, that gameplay was PRE-PATCH and the counter works even better now after the patch. I can upload recent gameplay of it when i get home if anyone wants me to. Guys who spam this just won't have the frame advantage most of the time......and you have to recognize this pattern and expose that.



Serengeti i watched your video vs Woodley and you did not punish those sways in the most effective way. You stood there choosing to trade with him knowing that he was slipping and fishing for counters a lot. Despite your not so effective approach to stopping that.....you STILL were able to rock him and get his head health low. It seems like you want a perfect way to stop something like this but still fight they way you normally fight. Often that's not the case to stop certain tactics. Sometimes you have to change up your style a bit when you recognize your opponent doing something over and over.

Quality video and post, I think it could use a few tweakings still and I think straights could be a little stronger but this clearly shows the frame advantage after blocking a slip strike that the opponent did not think about, but was merely using to engage the offense as it was most effective pre-patch but executed now with little success. Backwards movement, jab straights and taking advantage of that frame advantage.