The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[Boiler569]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Honest question for GPD --- have you fought and beaten top 10 fighters in ranked who employ these spammy/cheesy tactics?

They bring it to a whole other level lol......

These tactics you describe are definitely useful and it's good stuff. I've used them effectively for sure. But some of the 'top' fighters are so damn good at spamming .... most of these are neutralized or essentially impossible to pull off, at least long enough to finish opponent (whereas all they need is one or two lucky counters and good nightttt)

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

TBF even though that guy is a notorious crybaby I don't think that really disproves what hes saying.

If someone does nothing but mixup sways and throw one and only one strike it can be hard to hurt them. The counter point to this is it really isn't as dangerous to defend against that as people are saying, the one punch power off a sway isn't that good and you can block a combo.

It's a defensive strategy that feels like an aggressive one just because they're up in your face, but if you don't give them the opening they're never gonna hurt you.

I think people aren't using the toolset in the game to the fullest potential, in that guys video there were no feints, no footwork, no leg kicks, just trying to roll dice in the pocket and hope you come out on top.

Glad we can agree on something. You can obviously stand there and block but that's not a solution lol. The guy you were facing was swaying and trying to put together combos. What you did there Earv is no different to throwing combos at someone throwing combos and getting the better of some exchanges.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Honest question for GPD --- have you fought and beaten top 10 fighters in ranked who employ these spammy/cheesy tactics?

They bring it to a whole other level lol......

These tactics you describe are definitely useful and it's good stuff. I've used them effectively for sure. But some of the 'top' fighters are so damn good at spamming .... most of these are neutralized or essentially impossible to pull off, at least long enough to finish opponent (whereas all they need is one or two lucky counters and good nightttt)

I haven't played top ten fighters, and I wouldn't expect to be able to beat them anyway.

I have seen videos of top players using similar tactics to shut down the head movement spam though.

Honestly using simpler tactics than these.

These are just the ones that are fool proof, even if the timing is tight.

[Boiler569]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What's your issue with a stamina tax? There is still objectively excessive head movement, it's not about the punish as much as it being so prominent for GA and power counters etc.

Realistically head movement is tiring. Lunges have a stamina tax and that is arguably less tiring.

I would imagine if people irl used head movment as much as they do in this game people would get dizzy.

I've always proposed a 0.1% tax on perm stamina per sway. This is as a baseline. Stats and Perks can affect it.

You can do 10 sways/round and only use up 1% of stamina. A fair trade given how powerful sways can be.

But do 50+ a round and you're going to be hurting -----

The patch definitely has been helpful but is only about 60-70% of the way there IMO in terms of bringing sways into balance so to speak.

I also think sways should make you much more vulnerable to takedowns and *STRIKES TO THE BODY* --- it seems that sways dodge body strikes better than they dodge head strikes sometimes!!

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I've always proposed a 0.1% tax on perm stamina per sway. This is as a baseline. Stats and Perks can affect it.

You can do 10 sways/round and only use up 1% of stamina. A fair trade given how powerful sways can be.

But do 50+ a round and you're going to be hurting -----

The patch definitely has been helpful but is only about 60-70% of the way there IMO in terms of bringing sways into balance so to speak.

I also think sways should make you much more vulnerable to takedowns and *STRIKES TO THE BODY* --- it seems that sways dodge body strikes better than they dodge head strikes sometimes!!

Exactly I think people's fear stems from a substantial stamina tax but something slight is the mission for me.

This is around ideal.

[Boiler569]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I haven't played top ten fighters, and I wouldn't expect to be able to beat them anyway.

I have seen videos of top players using similar tactics to shut down the head movement spam though.

Honestly using simpler tactics than these.

These are just the ones that are fool proof, even if the timing is tight.

I fought a Top 10 PS4 fighter last night 2x.

Both times I was super patient and counterfought as best as possible, and employed some of these tactics. Maybe not to perfection, I need to keep working at it for sure, but I was doing a damn good job.

But this particular player (actually a top 5 player) is so 'good' at this stuff......all it takes is for you to slip up a couple times in the first few rounds and you're done.

He does ~100 sways per round at least ---- I mean I don't count but it really has to be that high lol ----- if he had a 0.1% stamina tax per sway, he'd be blowing thru 10% of his stamina per round!!

Heck I'll take 0.05%

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I haven't played top ten fighters, and I wouldn't expect to be able to beat them anyway.

I have seen videos of top players using similar tactics to shut down the head movement spam though.

Honestly using simpler tactics than these.

These are just the ones that are fool proof, even if the timing is tight.

If these players are on PS4... I'd like to play them. Open invitation to anyone who thinks what I'm saying is off. I can also explain it a lot better over voice chat because we can respond to each other easier and express ourselves better. I get I'm being a bit bullheaded but it's because I really believe in what I'm saying and feel I've provided the evidence. For some it's obviously not enough. So let's play some matches and put all your doubts to the test.

Swaying and then throwing one strike is OP. Not throwing a bunch after. Not letting go of block after. The fact that it's possible to punish doesn't mean it isn't OP and the reward doesn't outweigh the risk way too much.

[kush land]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Okay. Since that video brings something new to the table I'll respond. He's throwing two strikes after swaying. Not one. Try doing that above but against someone who hugs high block and sways and throws one strike. I'd like to get some games in with you testing it so we can get on the same page here. If I'm wrong... I'll admit defeat. But let's get on the same page. What's your PSN? And this isn't about who's better. I'm not saying if I win it proves anything. We should also get in a party so we can talk about it more clearly and go back and forth easier. I can do it now or in the next few hours. It's not about winning the argument for me... Just making the game better. I'm easy to talk to I promise lol

I agree i think hes getting countered because hes throwing more then 1 strike out of the sway.If there just throwing 1 at a time its alot harder ferg also wasn't waiting 4 u to strike he was going 1st makes a big difference?

I fought i guy yesterday that just swayed hes head to the left over and over so id throw a hook and it did very little damage so he just kept swaying into my hook over and over how is that possible?

[Nugget7211]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I've always proposed a 0.1% tax on perm stamina per sway. This is as a baseline. Stats and Perks can affect it.

You can do 10 sways/round and only use up 1% of stamina. A fair trade given how powerful sways can be.

But do 50+ a round and you're going to be hurting -----

The patch definitely has been helpful but is only about 60-70% of the way there IMO in terms of bringing sways into balance so to speak.

I also think sways should make you much more vulnerable to takedowns and *STRIKES TO THE BODY* --- it seems that sways dodge body strikes better than they dodge head strikes sometimes!!

I agree with this except for body shot vulnerability, because leaning into body shots/ducking into them takes a little bit off them IRL (not a lot, but a little) because it tightens up the muscles and drops your elbow to cover your ribs generally making the shot land less cleanly. Leaning way from body shots should make it worse though, and I think it already does.

The only problem with leaning/ducking into body strikes is how much it reduces the hit reaction by IMO, it takes away all of it when it should only get rid of like 70% of it, it's still really not fun to get hit in the body even when you've "braced" for it

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

TBF even though that guy is a notorious crybaby I don't think that really disproves what hes saying.

If someone does nothing but mixup sways and throw one and only one strike it can be hard to hurt them. The counter point to this is it really isn't as dangerous to defend against that as people are saying, the one punch power off a sway isn't that good and you can block a combo.

It's a defensive strategy that feels like an aggressive one just because they're up in your face, but if you don't give them the opening they're never gonna hurt you.

I think people aren't using the toolset in the game to the fullest potential, in that guys video there were no feints, no footwork, no leg kicks, just trying to roll dice in the pocket and hope you come out on top.

The part in bold is the what i was trying to get across too. I said that yeah you can slip and counter with one punch.....but it's really not as dangerous or OP anymore. Pre-patch guys would slip and come back with a hook/uppercut combo that would be a guaranteed rock. You can't do that anymore. That's why i'm saying its not OP. Is it still kind of annoying to deal with? Sure it is. But balance wise, not OP. So i agree with you.

[emmdeekay]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Glad we can agree on something. You can obviously stand there and block but that's not a solution lol. The guy you were facing was swaying and trying to put together combos. What you did there Earv is no different to throwing combos at someone throwing combos and getting the better of some exchanges.

Not suggesting you just stand there and block, but I think the optimal way is to try and outpoint them.If they come in swaying and throwing one strike then blocking you're gonna get a free strike to the body at least, if they start trying to combo it into an uppercut they're opening themselves up for the intercept strike to the head.


It can be frustrating in your head "knowing" what someone is doing and having to struggle to get them out of there but you're really not in any trouble unless you put yourself there, so take the points and get the win or frustrate them into opening themselves up.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Okay. Since that video brings something new to the table I'll respond. He's throwing two strikes after swaying. Not one. Try doing that above but against someone who hugs high block and sways and throws one strike. I'd like to get some games in with you testing it so we can get on the same page here. If I'm wrong... I'll admit defeat. But let's get on the same page. What's your PSN? And this isn't about who's better. I'm not saying if I win it proves anything. We should also get in a party so we can talk about it more clearly and go back and forth easier. I can do it now or in the next few hours. It's not about winning the argument for me... Just making the game better. I'm easy to talk to I promise lol

If he's throwing one strike after slipping:

1) The strike is coming out way slower than it did pre-patch
2) Even if you get hit with that ONE strike a couple of times....it's not guaranteed to rock you like the 2 strike combos did pre-patch. I would agree with you that it still can be annoying to deal with.....but FAR from OP and too effective bro.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Not suggesting you just stand there and block, but I think the optimal way is to try and outpoint them.If they come in swaying and throwing one strike then blocking you're gonna get a free strike to the body at least, if they start trying to combo it into an uppercut they're opening themselves up for the intercept strike to the head.


It can be frustrating in your head "knowing" what someone is doing and having to struggle to get them out of there but you're really not in any trouble unless you put yourself there, so take the points and get the win or frustrate them into opening themselves up.

Okay so when they hit with an upper when you go to the body you get killed, right? If they duck upper as you go for a kick... you often get killed. Yes, you should time your kicks well but it's easy to get caught. Kenetic got caught throwing kicks at the wrong distance several times and got rocked but he still won because he's the better player. If you time a knee or upper on their duck it RARELY ever rocks them. That's what I'm trying to get across. I agree that they're all winnable fights. It's not about winning and losing. Just game balance.

If he's throwing one strike after slipping:

1) The strike is coming out way slower than it did pre-patch
2) Even if you get hit with that ONE strike a couple of times....it's not guaranteed to rock you like the 2 strike combos did pre-patch. I would agree with you that it still can be annoying to deal with.....but FAR from OP and too effective bro.

I'm hoping you want to put these arguments to the test. Because we're lucky to be in the position where we can. We can literally test in game what I'm talking about and then have matches where we both implement the two styles and I'll show you what I mean. If I'm completely wrong or wrong in areas.. I will concede. Lmk bro.

[zeric]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

This is how it is online, only worse with no tiring.

They aren't looking to clinch or defense, they are fishing for rocks from sways. Much reward compared to the risk.

....Soo its realistic?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Operation Sports mobile app

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

....Soo its realistic?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Operation Sports mobile app

No because it's worse online and they don't get tired.