The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

How is anyone saying that a slight stamina tax on head movement would break the game? People block when they have no stamina. They don't use head movement. The best thing to do with literally no stamina is hug block and duck/upper any time your opponent throws anything because of the broken risk/reward.

GPD... I don't think you understand what is the most effective way to play in the game right now if I'm being honest.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I don't think we should be able to use head movement when we are completely gassed, with zero stamina.

I did say having very low long term stamina and just dodging a couple of punches draining our stamina to the point where we can't respond is silly.
I continue to think that's silly.

No one said it's the first line of defense. But it is one line of defense that would undoubtedly be effected by introducing a stamina tax.

How is that silly? That’s literally how it works in real life

Hell in real life dudes struggle to keep their guard up when gassed

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm so tempted to add a long term stamina tax that is half that of a landed jab just to shut down the argument, even though it will accomplish nothing.

It will accomplish what is needed.

However it isn't the fix all, things like lunges having a delay, and increasing vulerablity on sways would help too.

It's a part of a wholer picture, it's just one of the main points because it is one of the first things that stick out in terms of realism.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

You have a complete misunderstand of a stamina tax.

It does not mean moving your head will automatically enter a stamina deficit in relation to your opponent.

You can still profit off whiffs like lunges now, just excessive head movement would result in a net tax.

You know the other lines of defense? Lunges have a stamina tax and you can still lunge with low stamina, blocks have a break meter, etc.

Head movement irl is tiring, yet in this game it does not tire you and has a great reward in sway counters which none of the other lines of defense have.

Which make it the best line of defense in this game when it shouldn't be.

Never said that or thought that lol. It definitely shouldn't be the best line of defense though. And if it currently is in the meta of top players,
(I have no idea as I mostly play offline) then I agree there needs to be a way to either nerf it or buff the other lines of defense. Just don't want it to be a completely irrelevant option when we have low stamina. Perhaps a slow stamina drain that continues as long as one holds it is appropriate to keep it from being spammed.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Back lunges have a stamina tax, so therefore it is punished by the very definition.

Back sways are as effective with no amount of tiring plus power counters.

Head movement is more profitable.

And this is why it's so common and why there are so many complaints about it.

Back sways evade only one range so they are easily punished with forward moving strikes. They are very dangerous to abuse. And they are vulnerable to body and leg kicks.

Back lunges move two ranges and evade both body and leg kicks.

They are way safer to use.

You cannot compare their risks.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

How is anyone saying that a slight stamina tax on head movement would break the game? People block when they have no stamina. They don't use head movement. The best thing to do with literally no stamina is hug block and duck/upper any time your opponent throws anything because of the broken risk/reward.

GPD... I don't think you understand what is the most effective way to play in the game right now if I'm being honest.

What on earth are you talking about.

You just said the most effective defense is to block then sway.

That's swaying.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm so tempted to add a long term stamina tax that is half that of a landed jab just to shut down the argument, even though it will accomplish nothing.

Half of a whiffed jab on sways that dont dodge anything (aka fishing)and we have a deal.

*extends handshake*

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Add the stamina tax so i can quit complaining already and start to feel positive about this game please.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Back sways evade only one range so they are easily punished with forward moving strikes. They are very dangerous to abuse. And they are vulnerable to body and leg kicks.

Back lunges move two ranges and evade both body and leg kicks.

They are way safer to use.

You cannot compare their risks.

Flicking back lunges also are around one range if not less. Advanced ones cost even more stamina. This game is about stamina so it is a long term risk.

Yeah but with the back sway you are moving away from the opponent moving forward into your counter. That power counter is money. As it should be, it just doesn't come with any tiring.

I mean McGregor would pull counter everything if it didn't tire him out.

Never said that or thought that lol. It definitely shouldn't be the best line of defense though. And if it currently is in the meta of top players,
(I have no idea as I mostly play offline) then I agree there needs to be a way to either nerf it or buff the other lines of defense. Just don't want it to be a completely irrelevant option when we have low stamina. Perhaps a slow stamina drain that continues as long as one holds it is appropriate to keep it from being spammed.

I don't want it to become useless either. I mean I use head movement quite a bit despite what my posts may lead on.

It just feels unrealistic imo. I know head movement a tiring aspect of defence and one of the harder ones to master. Yet in this game its the basis of most peoples game, there is something off.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What on earth are you talking about.

You just said the most effective defense is to block then sway.

That's swaying.

I'm not sure how many of us are on the same page here. I'm talking about doing a duck/upper as a form of offence. Not defence. Because duck/upper is such an OP form of offence. All I'm saying is that a slight stamina tax on head movement will help. Not hinder. I'm not sure how everyone is picturing these changes but I'll explain how I am. Let's start with what you just said. One sway equals that of a jab. If you have literally no stamina and can only afford to sway once and throw one strike then that's your problem. Are you saying you should be able to sway all over the place in that situation. Like can you explain in better detail why this would break the game so we understand better?

In general though... Blocking is the primary defense. Not head movement. That's what I'm really not understanding. But maybe we're not on the same page here?

[tissues250]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Add the stamina tax so i can quit complaining already and start to feel positive about this game please.

same here but i think, it isn't going to solve the current issue perfectly like GPD said. Need more work on it.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

same here but i think, it isn't going to solve the current issue perfectly like GPD said. Need more work on it.

For the record... I agree 100%. This isn't at the top of my list in fixing the issue. Tuning the mathematics behind it all is. Vulnerability. Recovery frames. Etc.

[ExOicho]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm not sure how many of us are on the same page here. All I'm saying is that a slight stamina tax on head movement will help. Not hinder. I'm not sure how everyone is picturing these changes but I'll explain how I am. Let's start with what you just said. One sway equals that of a jab. If you have literally no stamina and can only afford to sway once and throw one strike then that's your problem. Are you saying you should be able to sway all over the place in that situation. Like can you explain in better detail why this would break the game so we understand better?

In general though... Blocking is the primary defense. Not head movement. That's what I'm really not understanding. But maybe we're not on the same page here?

take it one step farther.. footwork SHOULD be the primary defense. it's not even close to deep enough to make a big factor in this game.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

For the record... I agree 100%. This isn't at the top of my list in fixing the issue. Tuning the mathematics behind it all is. Vulnerability. Recovery frames. Etc.

So why is it all anyone talks about?

It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

GPD I’m actually curious what you think of the other topic I made regarding stand up.

I made sure to provide detailed explanations and gifs.

It’s a longer post so I get it if you dont have time right now.