The strongest punishment to side sway spam

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  • johnmangala
    MVP
    • Apr 2016
    • 4525

    #211
    Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

    Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
    So why is it all anyone talks about?

    It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

    Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.
    Because in the current state, moving your head recovers stamina.

    No other line of defense is so skewed when it comes to risk/reward.

    Comment

    • Phillyboi207
      Banned
      • Apr 2012
      • 3159

      #212
      Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

      Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
      So why is it all anyone talks about?

      It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

      Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.
      Wait what

      We still want both. The point is the short term drain would be small and you’d still be able to use the head movement until your long term stamina was really low. It’d be consistent with how striking in general works.

      How is that a horrible idea? Head movement affected stamina in UFC 2 and in FN games.

      Comment

      • Abstrakt fists
        Rookie
        • Apr 2016
        • 369

        #213
        Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

        Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
        So why is it all anyone talks about?

        It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

        Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.
        I agree with you. I think people see the problem but it is the wrong solution. People dont sway non stop, so the tax wouldnt accomplish much. It is something in the vulnerability that is at issue. The guy swaying just seems to have a huge advantage in ability to get the health events.

        Comment

        • Serengeti1
          MVP
          • Mar 2016
          • 1720

          #214
          Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

          Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
          So why is it all anyone talks about?

          It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

          Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.
          I actually agree bro. It's not the meat and potatoes of the issue. I've normally not got involved with it but since everyone was talking about it I did. I also want to clarify that ducking and uppercutting is more a form of offence. Not defence. Because it generates so much vulnerability and more reward vs risk. Because of this you can actually press someone with no stam and be successful. Don't get me wrong... You're at a disadvantage obviously but not as big as you'd think.

          But yeah... I agree that we should get back to the real issue. Problem is everyone seems intent on shutting it down or talking about stamina tax on head movement. I would still love to play test and record some things for the forum. Particularly with someone from the opposing stance so it's clear there is no bias involved.

          Comment

          • kush land
            Banned
            • May 2016
            • 443

            #215
            Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

            Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
            Back sways evade only one range so they are easily punished with forward moving strikes. They are very dangerous to abuse. And they are vulnerable to body and leg kicks.

            Back lunges move two ranges and evade both body and leg kicks.

            They are way safer to use.

            You cannot compare their risks.
            The advanced back lunges DONT AVOID LEG KICKS they do sum weird animation pulling the leg back but it still hurts my leg i haven't been able to counter off it very well either.The body kick hits me everytime and i lose stamina from doing the lunge and even more stamina when the kick lands if someone starts mixing in kick advanced lunge becomes very dangerous.

            Comment

            • johnmangala
              MVP
              • Apr 2016
              • 4525

              #216
              Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

              Originally posted by Abstrakt fists
              I agree with you. I think people see the problem but it is the wrong solution. People dont sway non stop, so the tax wouldnt accomplish much. It is something in the vulnerability that is at issue. The guy swaying just seems to have a huge advantage in ability to get the health events.
              I agree which is why I have been advocating for a stamina tax + lunges without delay and a vulerablity increase.

              The stamina tax is pretty much the spearhead because it's the one most out of sync with reality.

              Comment

              • Phillyboi207
                Banned
                • Apr 2012
                • 3159

                #217
                Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                Originally posted by Abstrakt fists
                I agree with you. I think people see the problem but it is the wrong solution. People dont sway non stop, so the tax wouldnt accomplish much. It is something in the vulnerability that is at issue. The guy swaying just seems to have a huge advantage in ability to get the health events.
                People do short term sway non stop. A lot of dudes sway non stop on the outside.

                It’s not the only issue but Im pushing for it because it seems like a relatively easy change(I understand it’d have to be balanced but I assume tuners can do that)

                If it’s something that requires a lot of work I’ll shut up now since I know there are more important things (Like seated cage position )

                Comment

                • ExOicho
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2018
                  • 185

                  #218
                  Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                  Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                  So why is it all anyone talks about?

                  It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

                  Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.

                  a few weeks ago you liked some of my ideas about fixing footwork and stepping strikes. Do you think it'll be something looked into for the next patch? A lot of these head movement issues could be dealt with indirectly by fixing footwork.

                  Comment

                  • Boiler569
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2016
                    • 2006

                    #219
                    Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                    Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                    So why is it all anyone talks about?

                    It;s seriously clogging up the thread for something so pointless.

                    Initially people wanted a short and long term stamina drain. When it was obvious that was a horrible idea, now everyone wants a long term drain which will accomplish nothing.
                    Long-Term drain will certainly accomplish something. Not sure why you believe it won't.

                    Even reducing their stamina by 2% per round for abusing the mechanic can mean a lot.

                    2% * 3 rounds ---- a 6% differential can mean everything in a close fight.

                    2% * 5 rounds even moreso


                    Why do you add long-term stamina drain to strikes? It doesn't mean anything it's only a very small % per strike.

                    But after 200+ strikes it adds up. A lot. That said, ALL blocked and missed strikes deserve to have more perm stamina drain. But I digress



                    This is definitely not a magic bullet but it's an essential ingredient in the recipe IMO.


                    Just think of it this way. What level of muscle activity does it take do perform a crisp lean/bob & weave?

                    It's more than 0

                    I would say that throwing a stinging jab takes *less* stamina than completing a crisp bob & weave. But you tax jabs for perm stamina, if only a very small amount, right?
                    PSN: Boiler569
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                    Comment

                    • Serengeti1
                      MVP
                      • Mar 2016
                      • 1720

                      #220
                      Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                      What I will say is we should be pushing more for the biggest problem solver. Which is to do with vulnerability and recovery frames. We shouldn't use this issue as a way to insert our problems with the game and help our narrative if it won't even fix it properly.

                      I actually don't think stamina tax on head movement is essential for balance. I think it's better to have it than to not. But it's not the real issue. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be included in the game.

                      Comment

                      • johnmangala
                        MVP
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 4525

                        #221
                        Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                        I don't think anyone here is solely pushing for a stamina tax, it's just that it's the most obvious issue.

                        Vulerablity needs an increase for sways. Lunges should have no delay when chaining, like how it is for striking and grappling now with the patch. I feel they are all essential for eliminating excessive head movement.

                        Comment

                        • Phillyboi207
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 3159

                          #222
                          Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                          Originally posted by Serengeti95
                          What I will say is we should be pushing more for the biggest problem solver. Which is to do with vulnerability and recovery frames. We shouldn't use this issue as a way to insert our problems with the game and help our narrative if it won't even fix it properly.

                          I actually don't think stamina tax on head movement is essential for balance. I think it's better to have it than to not. But it's not the real issue. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be included in the game.
                          I actually think the vulnerability system is the best part of the game and works beautifully.

                          I honestly think the head movement stamina is a big part of the problem

                          BUT

                          I havent gone deep into ranked yet. I plan on it to get a full grasp of the meta.

                          I know one major issue is that ducking evasive frames seem OP. I’ve seen head kicks ducked effortlessly and jabs/hooks seem to be ducked too easily as well.

                          But I think i’ll stop posting until im div 5-6 with plenty of recorded fights

                          Comment

                          • kush land
                            Banned
                            • May 2016
                            • 443

                            #223
                            Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                            Originally posted by emmdeekay
                            It's based on the footwork stat.
                            So if my footwork is a 100 he lunges the full range of the lunge?

                            If my footwork is 85 how far does it go then ?


                            In other words the regular back lunges dont all move 1 full range?

                            What about advanced lunges do they work this way too cause they all seem to have the same range

                            Comment

                            • GameplayDevUFC
                              Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
                              • Jun 2014
                              • 2830

                              #224
                              Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                              Originally posted by johnmangala
                              Because in the current state, moving your head recovers stamina.

                              No other line of defense is so skewed when it comes to risk/reward.
                              Jabbing also recovers stamina, if your stamina is below a certain value.

                              And that's crucial to recovery.

                              If it's impossible to defend yourself and recover stamina at the same time, then you're screwed once you get to low temp stamina.

                              It's also realistic.

                              Throw like 5 head kicks in real life back to back, then throw a bunch of standing jabs.

                              Tell me you're not recovering while throwing the jabs.

                              Comment

                              • Serengeti1
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2016
                                • 1720

                                #225
                                Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

                                Originally posted by johnmangala
                                I don't think anyone here is solely pushing for a stamina tax, it's just that it's the most obvious issue.

                                Vulerablity needs an increase for sways. Lunges should have no delay when chaining, like how it is for striking and grappling now with the patch. I feel they are all essential for eliminating excessive head movement.
                                It's not the most obvious issue as it wouldn't change the vulnerability and recovery frame problems which are literally the direct causes of the problem.

                                It matters but I don't see the point in pushing so hard for that when it's not going to fix the direct cause. All it's going to do is mean it can't be used as effectively ALL the time (and it doesn't necessarily mean this either as a slight stamina tax in a 3 round fight wouldn't mean you wouldn't be able to spam duck/upper anymore). It's still going to be overly effective.

                                What it would help with is people that spam stationary head movement like crazy but even then... Wouldn't fix the issue directly. The main issue is vulnerability and recovery frames.

                                Comment

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