The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[Sivo]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

its defintly the vulnerability. IRL ppl dont do this because the risk of mistiming it, getting caught or clipped round the head or side of the head and being rocked is so big its just not worth the risk of doing it in the pocket unless the opponent is tired and their punches slower. The risk increases the more tired the person using headmovement is but their should be a big risk to begin with.

I seem to catch ppl in the early phase of the slip animation when trying to predict their movement and it doesnt seem to stop their slip hook or do much damage perhaps increasing the vulnerability window abit but how this would balance out with headmovment being used while rocked i have no idea

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Pretty frustrating that we're 3 games in and 3 terrible launches in. We have "game changers" and a whole community still trying to tell the devs how to balance their game.

Undisputed 09 was a pretty good first attempt besides stick hugging. Undisputed 10 improved a lot but launched with some exploits in clinching. Undisputed 3 was damn near perfect besides the stick flicking. EA MMA had such a small budget and provided the closest thing to sim striking to date after the stamina patch.

I was so looking forward to this franchise when I heard EA acquired the license. Then we gotta a game without sprawls and guys who can walk through 30 head kicks. Really thought we'd at least get that damage system since some animations looked to be pulled from EA MMA.

UFC 2 better rag doll physics, improved clinching and striking, and then the broken stun combos. And UT which was actually fun but a bit pay 2 win.


Move on to this and a whole nother mess of a launch and exploits to abuse from free ko's, double legs, to free head kicks. Grouped stats like striking into just power and speed instead of even using the same one from UFC 2. Unresponsive controls, Tekken combos, even the "untouched" grappling is off and some positions are just ridiculously op. Clinch became very boring. UT is even more monetized now and using real fighters really seems pointless when we have ranked and player matches.

Then knowing this was an EA game we've requested fight cards and fighter share since day one. Three games in and nothing.


I don't know if the devs even know what they want to do with this game anymore. Do you want a sim or another Tekken? Enlighten me cuz this is ridiculous.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Pretty frustrating that we're 3 games in and 3 terrible launches in.

In your opinion.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Jabbing also recovers stamina, if your stamina is below a certain value.

And that's crucial to recovery.

If it's impossible to defend yourself and recover stamina at the same time, then you're screwed once you get to low temp stamina.

It's also realistic.

Throw like 5 head kicks in real life back to back, then throw a bunch of standing jabs.

Tell me you're not recovering while throwing the jabs.

Nothing wrong with jabs recovering stamina imo, they have good vulerablity and don't have the KO power they used to. They also drain stamina.

Head movement on the other hand, gives you armor against a variety of strikes (especially while cycling with stationary head movement), power counter opportunity (likely a rock, KD, or finish), no stamina tax, hit or miss vulerability, and it recovers your stamina while you go into close to god defense mode.

Footwork is there for that. It should be the first line of defense, then blocking, then sways. And grappling is another story.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

It's not the most obvious issue as it wouldn't change the vulnerability and recovery frame problems which are literally the direct causes of the problem.

It matters but I don't see the point in pushing so hard for that when it's not going to fix the direct cause. All it's going to do is mean it can't be used as effectively ALL the time (and it doesn't necessarily mean this either as a slight stamina tax in a 3 round fight wouldn't mean you wouldn't be able to spam duck/upper anymore). It's still going to be overly effective.

What it would help with is people that spam stationary head movement like crazy but even then... Wouldn't fix the issue directly. The main issue is vulnerability and recovery frames.

I don't get your point. I am campaigning for increased vulerablity too.

We don't need to cannibalize our cause here.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Nothing wrong with jabs recovering stamina imo, they have good vulerablity and don't have the KO power they used to. They also drain stamina.

Head movement on the other hand, gives you armor against a variety of strikes (especially while cycling with stationary head movement), power counter opportunity (likely a rock, KD, or finish), no stamina tax, hit or miss vulerability, and it recovers your stamina while you go into close to god defense mode.

Footwork is there for that. It should be the first line of defense, then blocking, then sways. And grappling is another story.

That's the other thing I find baffling with all these complaints.

Footwork IS the number one line of defense in this game, and it costs zero stamina.

You can move freely with the left stick and not drain any stamina, and there's a range at which you are completely safe from any strike, and you can use the left stick to stay in that range indefinitely.

It's the safest and most effective defense by far.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

its defintly the vulnerability. IRL ppl dont do this because the risk of mistiming it, getting caught or clipped round the head or side of the head and being rocked is so big its just not worth the risk of doing it in the pocket unless the opponent is tired and their punches slower. The risk increases the more tired the person using headmovement is but their should be a big risk to begin with.

I seem to catch ppl in the early phase of the slip animation when trying to predict their movement and it doesnt seem to stop their slip hook or do much damage perhaps increasing the vulnerability window abit but how this would balance out with headmovment being used while rocked i have no idea

Bear in mind that if you use head movement while rocked you're actually dodging the punches or getting knocked down. When not rocked these guys are eating them despite swaying straight into them.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

In your opinion.

Not just mine according to the forums every launch. But nice one, just like input delay "myth".

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I don't get your point. I am campaigning for increased vulerablity too.

We don't need to cannibalize our cause here.

My point is that the issue is people who use sways a lot have an advantage, correct? The reason they have an advantage is because sway strikes do a lot of damage and the vulnerability registers at a higher rate than it does when you hit someone while they're swaying into your strike.

Tweaking the stamina will not change this fact whatsoever. It will just mean they can sway slightly less. A lot of these guys are just swaying once before a strike anyway. So to have any meaningful impact on the issue... you'd have to make head movement drain stamina SIGNIFICANTLY. Which would then for sure hinder the game more than help it.

Get me?

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

That's the other thing I find baffling with all these complaints.

Footwork IS the number one line of defense in this game, and it costs zero stamina.

You can move freely with the left stick and not drain any stamina, and there's a range at which you are completely safe from any strike, and you can use the left stick to stay in that range indefinitely.

It's the safest and most effective defense by far.

Head movement is the first line, it was more before this patch but it still is used so much because it gives you far more reward than any other compared to risk, objectively.

The power counters, the recovering stamina, armor from variety of strikes, etc. No other defense has this many positives with so little negatives.


Footwork alone didn't help for the longest time when forward pressure combined with high block was the issue. There is still trouble on the outside but it is better than before.

That's why people were complaining about the outside game, because footwork wasn't the first line of defense.

People want better lunges too, I mean honestly those flick lunges barely cover any distance even for fighters like Wonderboy. Plus without the delay.

Footwork isn't better than head movment in this game and it's clearly been demonstrated with all the common exploit complaints.

People complain about not being able to effectively circle away from the fense.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

That's the other thing I find baffling with all these complaints.

Footwork IS the number one line of defense in this game, and it costs zero stamina.

You can move freely with the left stick and not drain any stamina, and there's a range at which you are completely safe from any strike, and you can use the left stick to stay in that range indefinitely.

It's the safest and most effective defense by far.

No offense but that’s simply not true. It was in UFC 2 but it’s not this year.

People walk you down effortlessly especially with the huge distance covered by forward strikes. Then you’re stuck like a magnet trying to get off the fence.

Serengeti has proven repeatedly that you cant stop someone from forcing an inside fight.

You may be able to win against someone forcing an inside fight but they still get to dictate where the fight takes place

[ImAnOlogist]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Not just mine according to the forums every launch. But nice one, just like input delay "myth".

I don't know if I've had to explain this to you already, but I think it's the second time. Again, it isn't just the forum that is the majority of the player base. There is a number of users on here who voice their opinions and the negative ones shine. When someones happy with the game they aren't here praising it they're playing it. It's your opinion the release was terrible and that's an objective fact.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Footwork is the first line of defense in real life. Not here since people can stick to you effortlessly. Use a lunge and you get away for a split second at best before they're right back on you.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

My point is that the issue is people who use sways a lot have an advantage, correct? The reason they have an advantage is because sway strikes do a lot of damage and the vulnerability registers at a higher rate than it does when you hit someone while they're swaying into your strike.

Tweaking the stamina will not change this fact whatsoever. It will just mean they can sway slightly less. A lot of these guys are just swaying once before a strike anyway. So to have any meaningful impact on the issue... you'd have to make head movement drain stamina SIGNIFICANTLY. Which would then for sure hinder the game more than help it.

Get me?

Well you seem to ignore the fact of depleting stamina is one of the most effective strategies irl. They lose power, speed, accuracy etc. So it would affect that fact.

Increasing vulerablity certainly helps no doubt. Which is why I am campaigning for it all. We don't need to drop one to put the other on a pedastal. They are all important.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

No offense but that’s simply not true. It was in UFC 2 but it’s not this year.

People walk you down effortlessly especially with the huge distance covered by forward strikes. Then you’re stuck like a magnet trying to get off the fence.

Serengeti has proven repeatedly that you cant stop someone from forcing an inside fight.

You may be able to win against someone forcing an inside fight but they still get to dictate where the fight takes place

I wish you could play against the AI that only tries to maintain distance.

It's so easy, and so frustrating to play against.

It's not hard to maintain distance at all.

It's hard to create distance.