The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm honestly not understanding where all the complaints about sway spam are coming from.

People cannot throw more than 1 strike after a slip/sway anymore and that was the biggest problem pre-patch. Pre-patch you could slip and come back with 2 punch hook/uppercut combo in 0.5 seconds. You can't do that anymore.

First of all, the slip strike is much slower now...and secondly you are WAYYY more vulnerable if you throw a 2 or more strike combo AFTER slipping. If someone keeps slipping and tries to throw 2 strikes afterwards, i usually blow them up.

Now you still have people sway/slipping and throwing ONE strike after. But to me that's realistic...that's proper counter punching. Conor does it, Mayweather does it, Silva did it, lots of fighters sway and answer back with one solid punch. The way this works now in the game is realistic to me and cannot be abused. If someone keeps slipping fishing for a counter, pick up on their timing, block the counter strike and keep it moving.

I know some people say it just doesn't look good with all the slip and swaying...but thats more aesthetic than anything. I think the balance of it is in a good spot gameplay wise. If you are patient and have good timing, then you can counter strike effectively. If you try to abuse it and get too trigger happy with counters....you're gonna pay.

The way people are talking its like they want counter striking to be completely dead and not effective in this game which doesn't make sense. Two of the best fighters in the world currently are counter fighters(Conor and Mayweather). If your opponent is being overly aggressive in this game..counter striking is a great way to slow them down....lay back and counter just like real life.
Its a defensive tactic. If your opponent is trying to initiate offense with counters, it just won't work effectively anymore. The balance is there man.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

This is how it is online, only worse with no tiring.

They aren't looking to clinch or defense, they are fishing for rocks from sways. Much reward compared to the risk.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

This is how it is online, only worse with no tiring.

They aren't looking to clinch or defense, they are fishing for rocks from sways. Much reward compared to the risk.

Its exactly like that and even worse!

[Thetruth11]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Have you tried play testing these 'solutions' (not tryna sound snarky) in an online ranked match? I think you'll find they're harder to pull off than you think. Especially with the slight input delay. Like you're saying we have to hit the guy at a highly specific moment in animation.... In the heat of a competitive battle against a good player that's just asking too much. Risk/reward is off. The reward is much higher than the risk for them.

I'll post this video again in here... I'm smashing his head around with hooks as he sways side to side in this video multiple times in the pocket but no vulnerability trigger? He shouldn't be able to get away with that. If he lands a sway counter on me I'm likely getting rocked though. It's just silly. If those sequences happen irl he's instantly KO'd. I'm not asking for that but the vulnerability needs to be upped or more consistent or something. It certainly needs balance in some way right now anyway.

<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.21%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XHJPAiDwAgo?ecver=2" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;le ft:0" width="641" height="360" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

Funny thing is you were hitting him with hooks but he shook them off

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[Sivo]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

the problem is this is an mma game not boxng. only a few fighters in the ufc should be capable of this. perhaps ppl with 90+ headmovement or there abouts have the ability to slip shots in the pocket whereas everyone below has the ability to slip shots just not in the pocket or make it so low headmovement stats means u take stupid damage when in close swaying

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

This is how it is online, only worse with no tiring.

They aren't looking to clinch or defense, they are fishing for rocks from sways. Much reward compared to the risk.

JDS used a This Is Sparta kick and footwork to shut down Big Ben.

Unfortunately the push kick is pretty slow and footwork isn’t as apparent as I’d like.

I think increase the disparity in headmovement/footwork stats from the top guys to the lower tier. You feel the difference now no doubt, but I feel like it should be more drastic and noticeable.

The idea of taxed head movement is something that I campaigned for pre-patch. After the patch though, I’m pretty much on the fence given the points that EarvGotti made. Everything is a lot more slowed down and stamina drains pretty massively now in most cases.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

JDS used a This Is Sparta kick and footwork to shut down Big Ben.

Unfortunately the push kick is pretty slow and footwork isn’t as apparent as I’d like.

I think increase the disparity in headmovement/footwork stats from the top guys to the lower tier. You feel the difference now no doubt, but I feel like it should be more drastic and noticeable.

The idea of taxed head movement is something that I campaigned for pre-patch. After the patch though, I’m pretty much on the fence given the points that EarvGotti made. Everything is a lot more slowed down and stamina drains pretty massively now in most cases.

Right the patch changes definitely help and it's better than pre patch, it was much worse before.

But it the problem is still present and still worse than the gif above. There are still some improvements that can be made.

Things like clinch feints to bait pull counters and a slight stamina tax (bit more for stationary head movement) cannot help not mention better lunges with no delay too.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Sigh I really hope GPD and the dev team don't make any drastic changes to head movement because of all these complaints.

I don't know about you guys but i've seen considerably less head movement spam online since the patch dropped. Is it frustrating when you can't hit someone because they slipped your strike? Yes, that's the whole purpose of defense. To become harder to hit and frustrate your opponent when he's striking. That's partially why Mayweather is so hated.

Is it OP when someone slips strikes and comes back with counters? NO its not! It was OP pre-patch but its definitely not too powerful anymore. The strikes come out slower after a sway and you cannot throw rapid fire combos after a sway anymore.

If your main complaint is that the slips forcing you to miss(without a counter behind it) are too easy....then that means you have to mix up your timing. If you're being too predictable in your striking....then you're gonna get slipped easier.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Sigh I really hope GPD and the dev team don't make any drastic changes to head movement because of all these complaints.

I don't know about you guys but i've seen considerably less head movement spam online since the patch dropped. Is it frustrating when you can't hit someone because they slipped your strike? Yes, that's the whole purpose of defense. To become harder to hit and frustrate your opponent when he's striking. That's partially why Mayweather is so hated.

Is it OP when someone slips strikes and comes back with counters? NO its not! It was OP pre-patch but its definitely not too powerful anymore. The strikes come out slower after a sway and you cannot throw rapid fire combos after a sway anymore.

If your main complaint is that the slips forcing you to miss(without a counter behind it) are too easy....then that means you have to mix up your timing. If you're being too predictable in your striking....then you're gonna get slipped easier.

I fought you near release and i remember you using the bob and weave like it was going out of style. No wonder you are defending it.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm honestly not understanding where all the complaints about sway spam are coming from.

People cannot throw more than 1 strike after a slip/sway anymore and that was the biggest problem pre-patch. Pre-patch you could slip and come back with 2 punch hook/uppercut combo in 0.5 seconds. You can't do that anymore.

First of all, the slip strike is much slower now...and secondly you are WAYYY more vulnerable if you throw a 2 or more strike combo AFTER slipping. If someone keeps slipping and tries to throw 2 strikes afterwards, i usually blow them up.

Now you still have people sway/slipping and throwing ONE strike after. But to me that's realistic...that's proper counter punching. Conor does it, Mayweather does it, Silva did it, lots of fighters sway and answer back with one solid punch. The way this works now in the game is realistic to me and cannot be abused. If someone keeps slipping fishing for a counter, pick up on their timing, block the counter strike and keep it moving.

I know some people say it just doesn't look good with all the slip and swaying...but thats more aesthetic than anything. I think the balance of it is in a good spot gameplay wise. If you are patient and have good timing, then you can counter strike effectively. If you try to abuse it and get too trigger happy with counters....you're gonna pay.

The way people are talking its like they want counter striking to be completely dead and not effective in this game which doesn't make sense. Two of the best fighters in the world currently are counter fighters(Conor and Mayweather). If your opponent is being overly aggressive in this game..counter striking is a great way to slow them down....lay back and counter just like real life.
Its a defensive tactic. If your opponent is trying to initiate offense with counters, it just won't work effectively anymore. The balance is there man.

It's very simple man. I should be able to punish them better. I can't. You either have to make it easier to punish or the effectiveness needs to be reduced. Watch the videos I've linked... Even the one quoted just above. That's not okay. Blocking the strike after they've swayed is not an okay solution either. I should be able to punish it. I think you need more time with the game and need to really pay attention to what's going on. Hugging high block isn't a reasonable option. Does that mean I literally just stand there holding block against duck/upper spammers? It actually doesn't even drain their stamina much. I should be able to intuitively effectively counter it. As the 100 videos I've posted show very clearly... It's very difficult to do.

The issue is everyone thinks they're some pro counter fighter because they can stand on the outside or move forward and sway side to side dodging a jab. It's so easy to do that. If real life fighting logic was actually applied these dudes wouldn't last a minute. You'd hit them with an upper while they're ducking. With hooks while they're swaying side to side. This very often doesn't punish them. How are you talking about the game being realistic but not recognising that's a problem? GPD's solutions here just aren't reasonable. Watch the video quoted above titled "inside fighting cheese".

Another issue is once they get a slip my fighter just freezes and I can't follow up with a strike to hit them if they're predictably swaying to one side (this is also very realistic but not part of the game). Slips are very clearly OP. What's happened in my mind is GPD wanted to make the game more realistic since UFC 2 and wanted sway counters to be much more effective. The issue is he went too far. Which is an easy mistake to make when UFC 2 was so bad for this.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Your character getting frozen after a slip is the new parry. Its horrible just getting hung up not being able to punch, also happens after blocking a head kick or getting kicked to the leg.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

JDS used a This Is Sparta kick and footwork to shut down Big Ben.

Unfortunately the push kick is pretty slow and footwork isn’t as apparent as I’d like.

I think increase the disparity in headmovement/footwork stats from the top guys to the lower tier. You feel the difference now no doubt, but I feel like it should be more drastic and noticeable.

The idea of taxed head movement is something that I campaigned for pre-patch. After the patch though, I’m pretty much on the fence given the points that EarvGotti made. Everything is a lot more slowed down and stamina drains pretty massively now in most cases.

It doesn't have to be about stamina. But look at the videos I'm posting. How does it make sense that sway counter spammers are as effective as they are but so hard to punish? Is anybody watching my videos? Lol. Rip. I feel like they're all you need to see to realise there's an obvious problem. I'm using my brain to play (not like it takes much brain power anyway) but it doesn't matter because the chances of punishing it even if it's extremely repetitive are way too slim.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

It's very simple man. I should be able to punish them better. I can't. You either have to make it easier to punish or the effectiveness needs to be reduced. Watch the videos I've linked... Even the one quoted just above. That's not okay. Blocking the strike after they've swayed is not an okay solution either. I should be able to punish it. I think you need more time with the game and need to really pay attention to what's going on. Hugging high block isn't a reasonable option. Does that mean I literally just stand there holding block against duck/upper spammers? It actually doesn't even drain their stamina much. I should be able to intuitively effectively counter it. As the 100 videos I've posted show very clearly... It's very difficult to do.

The issue is everyone thinks they're some pro counter fighter because they can stand on the outside or move forward and sway side to side dodging a jab. It's so easy to do that. If real life fighting logic was actually applied these dudes wouldn't last a minute. You'd hit them with an upper while they're ducking. With hooks while they're swaying side to side. This very often doesn't punish them. How are you talking about the game being realistic but not recognising that's a problem? GPD's solutions here just aren't reasonable. Watch the video quoted above titled "inside fighting cheese".

Another issue is once they get a slip my fighter just freezes and I can't follow up with a strike to hit them if they're predictably swaying to one side (this is also very realistic but not part of the game). Slips are very clearly OP. What's happened in my mind is GPD wanted to make the game more realistic since UFC 2 and wanted sway counters to be much more effective. The issue is he went too far. Which is an easy mistake to make when UFC 2 was so bad for this.

Based on what i gathered from your post, it sounds like you want it to be easier to punish people using a defensive style. That doesn't make sense to me. A fighter using a defensive style should be harder to punish with strikes. Aggressive fighters should be easier to punish....not defensive.

Also you guys have to remember that frames control a lot of the striking interactions. If you successfully slip a strike then you gain frame advantage as you should. You should get rewarded for having the right timing. If you slip all willy nilly not evading a strike, then you don't get ANY frame advantage.

Post patch I've fought many sway spammers that were pretty effective pre-patch and i've destroyed them. So im not sure what you guys are referring to honestly. The only time i use sways/slips is after i throw strikes(as a defensive maneuver)....or if someone keeps lunging forward with jabs or straights. A slip counter punch will slow down aggressive fighters constantly coming forward.

[bmlimo]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

It's very simple man. I should be able to punish them better. I can't. You either have to make it easier to punish or the effectiveness needs to be reduced. Watch the videos I've linked... Even the one quoted just above. That's not okay. Blocking the strike after they've swayed is not an okay solution either. I should be able to punish it. I think you need more time with the game and need to really pay attention to what's going on. Hugging high block isn't a reasonable option. Does that mean I literally just stand there holding block against duck/upper spammers? It actually doesn't even drain their stamina much. I should be able to intuitively effectively counter it. As the 100 videos I've posted show very clearly... It's very difficult to do.

The issue is everyone thinks they're some pro counter fighter because they can stand on the outside or move forward and sway side to side dodging a jab. It's so easy to do that. If real life fighting logic was actually applied these dudes wouldn't last a minute. You'd hit them with an upper while they're ducking. With hooks while they're swaying side to side. This very often doesn't punish them. How are you talking about the game being realistic but not recognising that's a problem? GPD's solutions here just aren't reasonable. Watch the video quoted above titled "inside fighting cheese".

Another issue is once they get a slip my fighter just freezes and I can't follow up with a strike to hit them if they're predictably swaying to one side (this is also very realistic but not part of the game). Slips are very clearly OP. What's happened in my mind is GPD wanted to make the game more realistic since UFC 2 and wanted sway counters to be much more effective. The issue is he went too far. Which is an easy mistake to make when UFC 2 was so bad for this.

The main problem is that footwork doesn’t have relevance in this game... u cant stay in a proper range cause its to easy to them close range and make a hook spam sway fest...and with no stamina tax... just if u miss or get rocked not if u throw a 100 strikes in the guard

[bmlimo]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Based on what i gathered from your post, it sounds like you want it to be easier to punish people using a defensive style. That doesn't make sense to me. A fighter using a defensive style should be harder to punish with strikes. Aggressive fighters should be easier to punish....not defensive.

Also you guys have to remember that frames control a lot of the striking interactions. If you successfully slip a strike then you gain frame advantage as you should. You should get rewarded for having the right timing. If you slip all willy nilly not evading a strike, then you don't get ANY frame advantage.

Post patch I've fought many sway spammers that were pretty effective pre-patch and i've destroyed them. So im not sure what you guys are referring to honestly. The only time i use sways/slips is after i throw strikes(as a defensive maneuver)....or if someone keeps lunging forward with jabs or straights. A slip counter punch will slow down aggressive fighters constantly coming forward.

Stay on pocket swaying and throwing hooks is a defensive style?