How is outside fighting considered OP?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

In what world does pace have anything to do with winning?

Earth.

Do you want the game from preventing players to do something even if it gets them to lose? That is a tall order.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Earth.

Do you want the game from preventing players to do something even if it gets them to lose? That is a tall order.

To your point, we get that we can counter and be effective on the inside while backing up, and that the aggressive fighter can be at a disadvantage.

However, that doesn't mean we should HAVE to fight backing up being brought back into phone booth range constantly. We should be able to keep and maintain distance with footwork alone if that's the strategy that we wish to employ.

To counter this, there should also be a sticky cage mechanic to help the aggressor cut off the cage from an elusive opponent.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

However, that doesn't mean we should HAVE to fight backing up being brought back into phone booth range constantly. We should be able to keep and maintain distance with footwork alone if that's the strategy that we wish to employ.

Another way to say that:

The opponent shouldn't be able to force his way close to me, even at his demise.

Another:

The opponent should HAVE to behave and stay on the outside, like good doggy, while I dance for the stars from a distance. Even if he is willing to die to get in, the game shouldn't let him.

Lol!

In general controlling the pace gives you a better chance at winning since you’re able to fight at your style.

My point is if you think a guy is controlling the pace when he fights in a way that dooms him. Chris Leben was constantly advancing against Anderson Silva. Do you think he was controlling the pace in any relevant way? Do you think we need to nerf poor Leben's advance?

[WarMMA]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

So i'll just place this here also. After reading alot of you guys post, thought of an idea to help with circling off the cage, cutting off the cage and overall quicker lateral movement. I'll call it the quick shuffle.



The Way it Works: So similar to the quick retreat(the new backward evasive movement we got in the recent patch), holding the two shoulder buttons and moving your fighter laterally will result in your fighter quickly shuffling to the desired side. And just like the quick retreat, this movement will have increased speed, keep your defenses up and will drain stamina. The general movement should look like this...





Using the Quick Shuffle to Circle off or Cut off the Cage: So pretty much the main thing this movement can be used for is to circle off or to cut off the cage like irl. So as a fighter who's back is headed towards or against the cage, you can simply use the quick shuffle to escape and circle off to your left/right. Below we see Wonderboy gets a bit stuck by the cage and uses the quick shuffle along the cage to his right to relieve Woodleys pressure...



In another scenario, we see both guys using it. Weidman lands a kick that backs Machida into the cage and Machida quickly shuffles to his right. Weidman responds with a quick shuffle of his own in that direction, cutting off the cage...





Using Head Movement and Lunges with the Quick Shuffle:Along with using the quick shuffle to escape in a certain direction, you would also be able to tie head movement into it and lunge out of it. So for example, say you're stuck against the cage and begin quick shuffling to a side to escape. If your opponent charges in with a strike and you see it coming, you would be able to slip the strike with head movement (in all directions except back of course) while shuffling or lunge out of the shuffle in the desired direction. Below is a visual example of Woodley using head movement while quick shuffling, to slip a Wonderboy left straight...



In another gif, we see Wonderboy shuffling to his right and quickly lunging out of it to his left to avoid a Hendricks right hand...




Stats and the Quick Shuffle: Like most things, this movement will also be affected by fighters stats. So for example, Wonderboy will have a faster quick shuffle than say Maia, because of his higher footwork stat. Or Anderson Silva will have quicker slips out of the quick shuffle than DC does, because of his higher head movement stat.


A Stickier Cage: Last but not least, I feel the cage needs to feel a bit more sticky when your against it. Not like your stuck in mud or anything, but you shouldn't be able to move as fast when against it or when it's in the way of the direction you're moving in.



Let me know what you guys think about it...

[Phillyboi207]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Imma try a different approach

What would it take to convince you that the ability to create/ maintain space isnt where it should be?

I’ve already posted articles and fights.

Edit: to answer your question. Yes Leben did control the pace. But that’s what Silva does. He’s a counter striker he almost never leads unless he smells blood. You’d have a point if Silva was actually looking to maintain distance.

[Counter Punch]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Another way to say that:

The opponent shouldn't be able to force his way close to me, even at his demise.

Another:

The opponent should HAVE to behave and stay on the outside, like good doggy, while I dance for the stars from a distance. Even if he is willing to die to get in, the game shouldn't let him.


My point is if you think a guy is controlling the pace when he fights in a way that dooms him. Chris Leben was constantly advancing against Anderson Silva. Do you think he was controlling the pace in any relevant way? Do you think we need to nerf poor Leben's advance?

A dude a few posts up literally addressed all these questions already.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Another way to say that:

The opponent shouldn't be able to force his way close to me, even at his demise.

Another:

The opponent should HAVE to behave and stay on the outside, like good doggy, while I dance for the stars from a distance. Even if he is willing to die to get in, the game shouldn't let him.


My point is if you think a guy is controlling the pace when he fights in a way that dooms him. Chris Leben was constantly advancing against Anderson Silva. Do you think he was controlling the pace in any relevant way? Do you think we need to nerf poor Leben's advance?

Lol, no that's not what I am saying at all.

I am saying that it should take actual skill to cut the cage off from someone and get inside. Footwork needs to be a meta that is expanded in a balanced way for both sides. Buff cutting off the cage and movement for both sides.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Lol, no that's not what I am saying at all.

I am saying that it should take actual skill to cut the cage off from someone and get inside. Footwork needs to be a meta that is expanded in a balanced way for both sides. Buff cutting off the cage and movement for both sides.

Point.Blank.Period.

Solid Altar please dont argue against anything else. This is the point we’re all making. It seems to keep going over your head so please re-read this as many times as you need to.

[WarMMA]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Exactly Zeta. Buff for both guys. Solid what you think of my post a page back? If something like that was implemented? That means both sides get a buff to lateral movement increasing the ability to circle off and cut off the cage, plus the cage would be sticker and stifle regular movement speed more when your against it or it's in the way.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Exactly Zeta. Buff for both guys. Solid what you think of my post a page back? If something like that was implemented? That means both sides get a buff to lateral movement increasing the ability to circle off and cut off the cage, plus the cage would be sticker and stifle regular movement speed more when your against it or it's in the way.

Wow, guys yeah if you haven't seen War's post go read it now. The suggestions in that post are what we need to expand the footwork meta.

[aholbert32]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Wow, guys yeah if you haven't seen War's post go read it now. The suggestions in that post are what we need to expand the footwork meta.

Its great and I hope the devs see it. With that said, higher level fighters may think it buffs runners too much.

[ZombieRommel]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

As promised, Kush:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/g0c267ncW04" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

Its great and I hope the devs see it. With that said, higher level fighters may think it buffs runners too much.

It was a great post and an awesome idea, but the cage cutting needs to be made more effective first, and then we can add options to do it faster or more aggressively with trade offs.

If we simply add a feature like that without first making cage cutting more viable, you'll just get the same current behavior, but faster.

[johnmangala]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

It was a great post and an awesome idea, but the cage cutting needs to be made more effective first, and then we can add options to do it faster or more aggressively with trade offs.

If we simply add a feature like that without first making cage cutting more viable, you'll just get the same current behavior, but faster.

Please improve TDs against the cage. They are rather inconsistent/unreliable compared to what it needs to be imo. This could be a much better tool for cage cutting than it is now, and it's already in the game.

Also free movement and the ability to tie up a single collar with the retreating evasion so you can cut people off and catch them.

[kush land]

Re: How is outside fighting considered OP?

As promised, Kush:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/g0c267ncW04" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thank you for posting vid and yes they are getting tried but to me thats a high pace fight and hes still chest to chest most of the time.

The more i watch videos of the game i realized

1 people have no fear INRL fighters stand just outside of range.

The wodley wonderboy gif is perfect example wodley probably could have done lunging punches and most likely got chest to chest?


But hes worried wonder boy will counter him when he closes distance.

Then they reversed position and wodley was against the cage wonderboy attacked with lunging strikes and was put of balance because wodley moved notice how wodley wasn't even close to returning fire?