i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[ZombieRommel]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Honestly ...you would have to search for tips online to even know about these things . Knowing is one thing ...implementing the knowledge is something else .

A heavily detailed in game tutorial would help a lot .

My guys how are good tekken and MK players are often shocked at how complicated the game is .

I'm not saying make it less complicated ...I'm just advocating for a central base of information front and center in the game itself which should constantly updated .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

It would be the "lazy" way, but I think something as simple as linking the patch notes / deep dives on one of the tiles would help. Or just a detailed patch note log accessible somewhere in the game. As opposed to what people have to do now, which is go online on a PC, look up the notes themselves, browse forums, watch videos.

There is no central location in game with tips that are relevant to the meta beyond week 1 of launch. The game is so different now from launch it's crazy. It's a good thing (because the changes have improved the game) but we need a central location in-game for players to see what's going on.

I agree a "belt" system like you suggested would be cool. Both Sugata and I have referenced Virtua Fighter 4 Evo's tutorial mode as a good base for the game to work from.

Even the latest Soul Calibur did a pretty good job with embedded meta tips in the move list. Like, they don't just give you the move list, they'll tell you "this move is good for pressuring because of its fast startup" or "you should use this move to mixup your opponent" etc. It gives you a bit of direction.

It's not nearly as fleshed out as what you are suggesting (or what Sugata and I suggested), but at this point, anything would be better than what we have.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Y



As a player who was div 4 and worked his way into top 100 i identify with you. Practice mode and studying real life mechanics help. Gpd designed a realistic game. Retracted does help. I dont care for him but i wont lie about the 100+ hours he devoted to practicing with me. Solid altair also has answered every question I have. This game decision making is crucial. Bad decisions lead to punishment. Get rid of your bad decisions

Honestly Hammer, if I was still playing regularly I would still be training with you.

I disagree with you on a lot of things, but you accept the fact that you make mistakes and try to fix them. You actually make the effort to get better and you can see the results.

My issue is with people like the guys arguing for dumbing down the experience. That goes beyond a simple disagreement in my eyes. That’s an affront to all the people (like you) who put the work in.


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[RetractedMonkey]

i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You guys heard it here folks. Because I use things like “argument” and “objective facts” I’m “evil”.

Never mind the fact that everything I said to help you on the first page was ignored in favor of more complaining. At this point you’ve made three posts saying the exact same things.

I bet if I spent the day compiling every single metagame information into a single topic by myself, there would still be guys like him saying how the only thing I do is insult people.

There are actually quite a few technique topics that get made but are left to sink to the depths to make room for yet another topic complaining about something. Because that is the heart of this message board: 75% of people who don’t want to work to get better, but want the game to cater to them/20% of guys chasing them like rats in order to stamp out the ignorance/5% of you along for the ride.


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[aholbert32]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

This is just my opinion but I truly feel like the devs taking so much input from high level arcade fighting game guys has not done anything good for this series. I don't want to play Tekken with MMA fighters, I want to play MMA.

The more you try to balance solely based on what top players do, the further away from actual MMA you get. Balance based on realism.

Can you give me an example of this? I've seen you mention the combo system but other than maybe the block break system that has nothing to do with catering toward an arcade system or moving away from realism.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Can you give me an example of this? I've seen you mention the combo system but other than maybe the block break system that has nothing to do with catering toward an arcade system or moving away from realism.

I would note that at no point has this game been catered to what the top players do.

If that were true, head movement would still be pre-patch number one.

It’s not like the developers made the game saying, “we have to make the game mechanics something top players will like”. That doesn’t even make sense. The game gets made and top players learn what the best methods to win are regardless.

This game has nigh-eradicated any sort of gaming of the intended system that players would abuse.

No one is ever going to want a fully realistic experience and they certainly aren’t going to make it because Haz wants half a round of staring and a combined strike output of 40 per.

You can replicate realism with your buddies and sliders. The rest of us want an engaging and decently paced, challenging experience that has a good resemblance compared to the sport. Based on the principles of realism, but not a slave to them.


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[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I would note that at no point has this game been catered to what the top players do.

If that were true, head movement would still be pre-patch number one.

It’s not like the developers made the game saying, “we have to make the game mechanics something top players will like”. That doesn’t even make sense. The game gets made and top players learn what the best methods to win are regardless.

This game has nigh-eradicated any sort of gaming of the intended system that players would abuse.

No one is ever going to want a fully realistic experience and they certainly aren’t going to make it because Haz wants half a round of staring and a combined strike output of 40 per.

You can replicate realism with your buddies and sliders. The rest of us want an engaging and decently paced, challenging experience that has a good resemblance compared to the sport. Based on the principles of realism, but not a slave to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Yep, Retracted is on fire today with the truth.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Smh. I went back through and read Retracted Monkey's posts in this thread. About the worst thing he said (and I'm poorly paraphrasing) was whoever is complaining about something has the IQ of someone that got their head kicked in. He didn't quote a specific post during or name any specific people. Is Retracted sarcastic as hell? Absolutely. Does retracted tip toe the line, absolutely. Does Retracted blatantly break the TOS, no. He doesn't. Whether you agree or not or dislike or not. Sorry to call you guys out, but it was the same when most of you were new here with Aholbert. Aholbert and Retracted are two of the most in-depth posters here that bring facts to the table and will call anyone out on BS when they see. I've been in these debates with Aholbert in the MMA section and I'm too lazy to fact check every time I disagree with him so I just don't debate with him. Some of you, and those that have been banned will continue to stand on what you think or "feel" with those two and eventually let your emotions get the best of you resulting in you hitting submit when you shouldn't.

Get out your feelings guys. I love the passion a lot of you guys bring to this but the struggle between understanding facts versus what you strongly believe or feel is pretty real.

And yes SUGATA, you should report posts. Kehlis and myself have mentioned this many times.



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[aholbert32]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Smh. I went back through and read Retracted Monkey's posts in this thread. About the worst thing he said (and I'm poorly paraphrasing) was whoever is complaining about something has the IQ of someone that got their head kicked in. He didn't quote a specific post during or name any specific people. Is Retracted sarcastic as hell? Absolutely. Does retracted tip toe the line, absolutely. Does Retracted blatantly break the TOS, no. He doesn't. Whether you agree or not or dislike or not. Sorry to call you guys out, but it was the same when most of you were new here with Aholbert. Aholbert and Retracted are two of the most in-depth posters here that bring facts to the table and will call anyone out on BS when they see. I've been in these debates with Aholbert in the MMA section and I'm too lazy to fact check every time I disagree with him so I just don't debate with him. Some of you, and those that have been banned will continue to stand on what you think or "feel" with those two and eventually let your emotions get the best of you resulting in you hitting submit when you shouldn't.

Get out your feelings guys. I love the passion a lot of you guys bring to this but the struggle between understanding facts versus what you strongly believe or feel is pretty real.

And yes SUGATA, you should report posts. Kehlis and myself have mentioned this many times.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

Its easier to just never disagree with me and assume I'm right....even though I'm only right half of the time.

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Smh. I went back through and read Retracted Monkey's posts in this thread. About the worst thing he said (and I'm poorly paraphrasing) was whoever is complaining about something has the IQ of someone that got their head kicked in. He didn't quote a specific post during or name any specific people. Is Retracted sarcastic as hell? Absolutely. Does retracted tip toe the line, absolutely. Does Retracted blatantly break the TOS, no. He doesn't. Whether you agree or not or dislike or not. Sorry to call you guys out, but it was the same when most of you were new here with Aholbert. Aholbert and Retracted are two of the most in-depth posters here that bring facts to the table and will call anyone out on BS when they see. I've been in these debates with Aholbert in the MMA section and I'm too lazy to fact check every time I disagree with him so I just don't debate with him. Some of you, and those that have been banned will continue to stand on what you think or "feel" with those two and eventually let your emotions get the best of you resulting in you hitting submit when you shouldn't.

Get out your feelings guys. I love the passion a lot of you guys bring to this but the struggle between understanding facts versus what you strongly believe or feel is pretty real.

And yes SUGATA, you should report posts. Kehlis and myself have mentioned this many times.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

The only way to win me in discussion is bringing FACTS + LOGIC.
Bringing insults or spam is useless and the sure way to ignore.
You can NOT say that this is wrong, that Reracted or Aholbert over discussed me, but while Aholbert did not insult me, Retracted DID - do wfrom your logic , Retracted must to be bannedm as you banned Oshigi and Reticulan. Why not?

I disagree with your thesis that Retracted was "in-depth poster w facts" at least in discussions with me, every time he started his posts with personal insults to my adres, and some of his "facts" were wrong.

i did not wanted to summon moderators to this thread so i prefered to send him into ignore list instead of reporting his posts... so i dont want to come back now and unlock him , read his insults to make a report, B/C i am sure you already saw those posts which i am talking about and did nothing.
I dont want to ASK moderators HERE now to punish anybody. BUT i am asking about
1) removing DOUBLE STANDARDS, at least in the future.

2) and asking about How long those banned will be in ban (while the other side did not get even warning)?

[aholbert32]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I disagree with your thesis that Retracted was "in-depth poster w facts" at least in discussions with me, every time he started his posts with personal insults to my adres, and some of his "facts" were wrong.

i did not wanted to summon moderators to this thread so i prefered to send him into ignore list instead of reporting his posts... so i dont want to come back now and unlock him , read his insults to make a report, B/C i am sure you already saw those posts which i am talking about and did nothing.
I dont want to ASK moderators HERE now to punish anybody. BUT i am asking about
1) removing DOUBLE STANDARDS, at least in the future.

2) and asking about How long those banned will be in ban (while the other side did not get even warning)?

1) There are no "double standards". If someone personally attacks you and you report it, the mod will typically ban that person. With that said, just because you took something as a personal attack doesnt mean it is one. For example, if I say you made a stupid post, that ISNT a personal attack because I'm attacking the post. If I call you stupid, that is an attack.

2) As far as Im aware, there isnt a warning system. Its at the mod's discretion. When I was a mod, I didnt give warnings. You broke the rules, I banned you. Some are similar. Some arent. There also isnt any guarantee that you will be reinstated.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

The only way to win me in discussion is bringing FACTS + LOGIC.
Bringing insults or spam is useless and the sure way to ignore.
You can NOT say that this is wrong, that Reracted or Aholbert over discussed me, but while Aholbert did not insult me, Retracted DID - do wfrom your logic , Retracted must to be bannedm as you banned Oshigi and Reticulan. Why not?

I disagree with your thesis that Retracted was "in-depth poster w facts" at least in discussions with me, every time he started his posts with personal insults to my adres, and some of his "facts" were wrong.

i did not wanted to summon moderators to this thread so i prefered to send him into ignore list instead of reporting his posts... so i dont want to come back now and unlock him , read his insults to make a report, B/C i am sure you already saw those posts which i am talking about and did nothing.
I dont want to ASK moderators HERE now to punish anybody. BUT i am asking about
1) removing DOUBLE STANDARDS, at least in the future.

2) and asking about How long those banned will be in ban (while the other side did not get even warning)?

Off topic, but SUGATA you are some right about the side lunges being somewhat broken, so I'm going to have to apologize for not believing you. Not enough to be game breaking, but definitely annoying lol.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I can assure you, the mods have seen any post of mine you may be thinking of. They watch these threads more than you know.

What you deign an insult is me calling you out on an inconsistency and you not liking the result. Saying you are a liar is not an insult if it is demonstrably true. Another poster even pointed out how blatant your lie was. You made no attempt to defend yourself and instead went after my wording in place of the merits of the argument.

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Can you give me an example of this? I've seen you mention the combo system but other than maybe the block break system that has nothing to do with catering toward an arcade system or moving away from realism.

A lot of people complained about ranked being arcadey in UFC 2, especially in one of the "realistic" leagues that I competed in last game. The majority of the time it would just be people complaining about how they lost because their opponent was not playing realistically. It was easily one of the most toxic leagues I've ever been a part of.

I don't think people can just blindly claim that the majority of ranked play is arcadey anymore. The best strategies often look realistic now and I would be very interested to see how a "spammer" could do well in ranked at this point. A lot of the game at higher levels is jab feinting and centered around controlling the octagon before initiating grappling or attacking.

As for block breaking, you rock someone and then you throw out a double jab, straight lead hook, jab hook and maybe their block is broken now. You might prefer being able to sneak one definitive punch through the guard for a finish, but I don't see how block breaking in that regard is so unrealistic that you no longer want to play the game competitively.


Not saying this about Haz, although it could possibly apply to him but the majority of people I know that complain about not wanting to play ranked due to arcadey mechanics never have a solid answer for what they consider arcadey about it. Some people complain about the total of strikes thrown, but if you actually slip a majority of strikes they will be gassed soon. You often see a huge number of total strkes thrown with decent stamina remaining because the majority of those strikes are blocked. We are also on an accelerated clock, so there's just a lot of things to consider when comparing potential "realistic" game experiences to the one we have now. They also tend to suck at the game.


I've finished top 10 two seasons in a row now with a very realistic style in my opinion. A lot of it is just jab feinting, setting up clinch and takedown and controlling the octagon. If I can do this, I don't see why anyone else can't. If you might say that you can't stand playing against "arcadey spammers", it's really not that hard and one way to think about it is if you were a UFC level fighter going up against regional level competition. They're going to do things that don't make sense, but they also be effective and this is where you can win.


To sum it up though, I feel like the game in it's current state is pretty darn close to being realistic besides a few things. It's at least close enough to not be pretentious about how "unrealistic" ranked play is that you can't bring yourself to play it.

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

1) There are no "double standards". If someone personally attacks you and you report it, the mod will typically ban that person. With that said, just because you took something as a personal attack doesnt mean it is one. For example, if I say you made a stupid post, that ISNT a personal attack because I'm attacking the post. If I call you stupid, that is an attack.

2) As far as Im aware, there isnt a warning system. Its at the mod's discretion. When I was a mod, I didnt give warnings. You broke the rules, I banned you. Some are similar. Some arent. There also isnt any guarantee that you will be reinstated.

1) OK, Is this " personal attack" or he just say that disagree with me ?

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...&postcount=110

I found that this is a personal insult and is not for this forum.

So it will be OK when next time i will call you "Lier" instead of "disahgree you are wrong and mistaken" and will post a call "Get the f*** out here, Aholbert"???

2) Is a ban permanent or it has a duration? how long and what factors?

P.S. Read me right, i am NOT asking for vengeance , not for my ego, NO. I am really DISAGREE that some good guys are banned in THIS thread when they were PROVOKED and RESPONDED to insulting posts of another persons which are not banned - this is NOT right.
This is what i am asking for - at least decrease their ban duration b/c they are just ONE SIDE of the coin.
I am NOT asking for anything for myself.

[aholbert32]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I would note that at no point has this game been catered to what the top players do.

If that were true, head movement would still be pre-patch number one.

It’s not like the developers made the game saying, “we have to make the game mechanics something top players will like”. That doesn’t even make sense. The game gets made and top players learn what the best methods to win are regardless.

This game has nigh-eradicated any sort of gaming of the intended system that players would abuse.

No one is ever going to want a fully realistic experience and they certainly aren’t going to make it because Haz wants half a round of staring and a combined strike output of 40 per.

You can replicate realism with your buddies and sliders. The rest of us want an engaging and decently paced, challenging experience that has a good resemblance compared to the sport. Based on the principles of realism, but not a slave to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I'll actually disagree with you a little on this. One of the consistent arguments I had earlier this year was basically different versions of this:

"Elite ranked fighters feel X is over or under powered. Players at OS dont think thats the case and then think the change could make the game more unrealistic. The change is made in favor of ranked fighters".

With that said, I think that the majority of those situations have turned out to make the game better. The reality is ranked players tend to play the game more often than most. They tend to take the time to know the details and mechanics of the game. They tend to interact with players who use exploits and can clearly express what issues they are seeing.