i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

This is nonsense lol. Here is the manual for the original Street Fighter 2. One of the biggest influences SF 2 had was combos, which was a bug. Animation cancels and cross-ups are bugs as well and the game did not teach you how to do those.

Brood War was notorious for people discovering bugs and utilizing them. People are still figuring out new bugs to this date. I'd love to see your hardcover guide feature them. Wave dashing in Melee is not an intended mechanic that the players figured out, which is why Brawl had the slipping mechanic to counteract it.. Rocket jumping was an unintentional mechanic. Dota 2 is filled with bugs that became mechanics (denying, stacking creeps). In League, Alistar's headbutt+pulv combo is a bug that the devs fixed but brought back due to fan complaints.

Yes, modern games have more readily available materials for in-game information, but that was not the case in the 90's and early 00's. Committed players discovered new tactics and they spread it around.

nonsense is that when you compare to the game 1991 years, when no one knew word "frame", "cyber sport", etc.
One more example from your logic - old MKs players were not using frame data, but now fd exists in the game itself... so, from your logic FD is not needed and pro players dont need this b/c old players (MK1-3) played w/o it. You are wrong - the current level of pro scene in fightings much MORE higher than before. And especially b/c of ability to use new type of info in fightings (fd + youtube + guides +advanced practice tools + record and analyze replays tools+ worldwide internet MP , etc) - all these things appears only in last years !

of course i am talking about SF4+.

sometimes, i am thinking that someone just want to offense, not about discussing the object.

object - is 1. lack of tutorial in EA UFC 2. analog and complexity ("difficulty") of game mechanics ... so 3. low level of pro gaming in EA UFC (b/c the most uses max 1/3 of its features).
THIS is the problem and the object of this discussion.

it's strange that I have to tell you about it because it's obvious!

[TheRizzzle]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

If you aren't going to spend the time to look through a walkthrough post or search the internet for tips, you likely don't care about getting better and probably wouldn't have used the tutorial anyway.

The tutorial (if made properly) isn't going to be much less dense than that 40 page walkthrough. The amount of information hasn't changed, it's just in one spot now. It will still take hours to master everything in the tutorial. You will likely have to rewatch everything in certain tutorials multiple times.

No matter what, it's going to be a timesink.

I understand what you're saying and I actually agree but...

When you say that people don't care enough to get better you're 1000% correct AND that is a problem but...

The problem is they will stop playing. I don't play to compete. I play to have fun. It has to be challenging to be fun but it also has to be understandable. And I'm praying that with UFC 4 and behind we won't spend a whole year patching the game.

Not because I don't appreciate the gameplay improvements, but more that I'm hoping the game will have such a solid base BY THIS POINT, that when casual fans open the game up at launch they can learn it, play it, put it down for a little while because life happens, come back to it a month later and not wonder why all of a sudden the game feels so different and they have to relearn everything all over again and do game homework in addition to all their real world respnsiblities.

I want the next games patch cycle to be us arguing over stupid stuff that I care about like fighter additions, new venues, graphics packages etc...things that other sports titles are adding because their game play has a good enough base that they don't need to do whole sale game play changes every 30-60 days or so.

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[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

As a casual (offline) player I can give my 2 cents. Striking: I find it very complicated to input some combinations of 2-3 buttons at the same time for certain strikes, especially to perform in the heat of a fight.

If that's the case then you simply lack the skill to play this game. Or any other fighter for that matter.

There's no simplifying striking. There are significantly more strikes than buttons. Combined button presses are inevitable. So if you can't do it, you're **** out of luck.

Grappling: I find it very difficult to deny transitions.

It's supposed to be difficult.

Holding a position by holding a direction

You'd never be able to get up.

You are wrong - the current level of pro scene in fightings much MORE higher than before.

Correct. That's what happens with time in any competitive field.

b/c of ability to use new type of info in fightings (fd + youtube + guides +advanced practice tools + record and analyze replays tools+ worldwide internet MP , etc) - all these things appears only in last years !

Aaaaaand I'm calling bull****.

Sure, practice tools, the internet and the ability to analyze our own fights through replays actually help, but we already have those. Everything else is good to have but of minimal influence.

Know how you actually get better? Fighting people that are better than you. There are no shortcuts. No magical article one can read to suddenly improve.

You fight, you lose, you learn, you try again. That's it.

[RetractedMonkey]

i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Fighting games always have tiers. Not just for the characters but for the players as well. Games like Tekken and SF have casual players that can get by button mashing and throwing the same techniques over and over. They will then get crushed by the players that actually dedicated time to developing a skill set.

Because this is a UFC game, fans of the sport for some reason think this principal doesn’t apply.

No fighting game has mechanics intended for casual players for core gameplay. There might be an auto combo system, but that’s generally where it stops. Casual players are welcome to play against people with a limited skill set and win matches against other casuals.

That’s where it ends. If you want to beat me, you better learn the mechanics and work on your dexterity. I had trouble with the button system at first too, but I don’t anymore because I developed muscle memory. They even made it easier to do some of the more advanced kicks now as well.

My point is that casuals have no right to complain that the mechanics aren’t catered to them. You have a right to complain if certain mechanics don’t make sense, but that’s a catch 22 because you wouldn’t actually know if a mechanic makes sense without knowing how to play. Otherwise you end up with casuals complaining about hook spam like it isn’t the easiest thing to counter.

Complexity is not difficulty. Nothing in this game is difficult to do. The challenge comes with trying to perform these things against other competent players. The mechanics themselves are actually very straight forward.

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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I remember when the beta came out how my hands would hurt for days because I was using them and contorting them in a way and speed I was not used to. It’s sucked, but eventually I got used to it and there is no issue.


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[shadowgate316]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

The difference between UFC 3 and other sports games is that you can't just pick up and play nor even possibly competing by just knowing the basics. Sure other sports games have advanced controls, but to a degree a casual player can pick up those games with basic knowledge of the controls and at least somewhat compete online. With UFC 3 the basic controls can appear complex to casuals, which could frustrate them and could turn them off from the game. UFC 3 utilize literally every button on the controller, transitioning from striking to blocking to grappling, imputing multiple buttons to perform uppercuts, different kicks and combinations can definitely seem overwhelming. The learning curve is pretty steep and just knowing the basics may only get you through Stand and Bang mode. I get it that there are a lot of resources online to help in explaining it and i know that if you want to get good at something you have to practice, practice, rinse and repeat, but there has to be a happy medium in terms of accessibility that will keep casuals interested without them bailing ship. I don't know if making a streamline control ranked online mode would help or creating more casual modes would help. I can see both sides of the argument.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You get smashed online in Madden or 2k as well with just the “basics”

RetractedMonkey hit the nail on the head.

Everything in game is pretty simple but people dont want to put the time in to develop muscle memory.

Hell go play a more traditional fighting game and learn some of the combos. They require way more timing and muscle memory than anything in UFC 3.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Fighting games always have tiers. Not just for the characters but for the players as well. Games like Tekken and SF have casual players that can get by button mashing and throwing the same techniques over and over. They will then get crushed by the players that actually dedicated time to developing a skill set.

Because this is a UFC game, fans of the sport for some reason think this principal doesn’t apply.

No fighting game has mechanics intended for casual players for core gameplay. There might be an auto combo system, but that’s generally where it stops. Casual players are welcome to play against people with a limited skill set and win matches against other casuals.

That’s where it ends. If you want to beat me, you better learn the mechanics and work on your dexterity. I had trouble with the button system at first too, but I don’t anymore because I developed muscle memory. They even made it easier to do some of the more advanced kicks now as well.

My point is that casuals have no right to complain that the mechanics aren’t catered to them. You have a right to complain if certain mechanics don’t make sense, but that’s a catch 22 because you wouldn’t actually know if a mechanic makes sense without knowing how to play. Otherwise you end up with casuals complaining about hook spam like it isn’t the easiest thing to counter.

Complexity is not difficulty. Nothing in this game is difficult to do. The challenge comes with trying to perform these things against other competent players. The mechanics themselves are actually very straight forward.

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I disagree. Casuals have no right no complain that they get their *** handed to them ONLINE, sure. But you're shooting yourself in the foot when you set the enterance level too high for simply learning the game. It's supposed to be fun. FIFA, NHL, Madden, are easier to get the hang of right off the bat, and then you can dwelve into the depth and get your *** handed to you by CPU legendary, and better players online. but this game doesn't do that. It's confusing, and annoying and THEN you get over that and you learn to love the game.

not a good business idea if you wanna creat a large and well skilled player group

[TheRizzzle]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I think borrowing a page from MLB the Show or FIFA might be a good idea.

They let you tell the game at the beginning if you're new to the game, advanced or excellent.

As you play and the game figures out you're getting better it sort of advances you to the next tier. Or something like that from what I remember.

I'm more concerned for the offline audience in this regard. I don't understand the online competitive argument if you arent willing to deep dive but want to win everytime you step online. I do understand someone at the age of 35 who maybe got hyped watching UFC 229 then going out, buying the game, realizing how nuanced the sport and the game is, and then never picking it up again or buying it again because he has a wife two kids, a full time job and other things taking up his time.

If there was a ramping up period of some sort for those people you could ease them in, let them get comfortable, let them get curious, maybe they learn the real sport more as they learn the game more and then the reach a knowledge base that puts them at a higher level.

Or maybe they just want to play at that lower level a while longer with simplified controls so they can feel like they are punching someone in the face after a long day of work.

I just don't want to lose that demographic, even if my preferred game is probably more advanced like everyone else here.

That demo coming in and staying will lead to more sales, a bigger budget, more updated rosters, maybe more of an art team for things like custom octagon layouts, CAF creation, venues, PPV/Fight Night graphics, unique fighter entrances, multiple announce teams, etc...

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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I disagree. Casuals have no right no complain that they get their *** handed to them ONLINE, sure. But you're shooting yourself in the foot when you set the enterance level too high for simply learning the game. It's supposed to be fun. FIFA, NHL, Madden, are easier to get the hang of right off the bat, and then you can dwelve into the depth and get your *** handed to you by CPU legendary, and better players online. but this game doesn't do that. It's confusing, and annoying and THEN you get over that and you learn to love the game.

not a good business idea if you wanna creat a large and well skilled player group

It’s very easy to hop into UFC and have fun on easy or with a friend. They even have stand and bang and the one with the health bars to make it even more accessible.

Most players will go pick their favorite fighter who will likely be high tier and have most of the common hard combos. Hooks, straight punches, and roundhouse kicks are easy to do and combo.

This is just a wrong assessment of how the casual player will play.


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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Just like how a casual player will hop into DBFZ and immediately mash buttons trying to do a kamehameha on easy or with a friend. Even online mode has a plethora of casuals doing the same thing.

The thing about UFC is the player base is smaller, so you have less casuals in the online mode, but the principal is exactly the same.

The only thing a true casual will struggle with is the stamina bar. They likely won’t even touch the ground.


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[NEWSS]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

If that's the case then you simply lack the skill to play this game. Or any other fighter for that matter.

There's no simplifying striking. There are significantly more strikes than buttons. Combined button presses are inevitable. So if you can't do it, you're **** out of luck.



It's supposed to be difficult.

I was pretty good at Undisputed 2009, 2010, 3 and decent at EA MMA.
They were easier to pick up but still hard to master, part of it because of the easier button system. I guess that's the price to pay to have advancing and retreating strikes.
Anyway that's was just my experience as a casual player who doesn't have much time to put into a videogame, hopefully I'll develop muscle memory and start enjoying the game more and more.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

The difference between UFC 3 and other sports games is that you can't just pick up and play nor even possibly competing by just knowing the basics. Sure other sports games have advanced controls, but to a degree a casual player can pick up those games with basic knowledge of the controls and at least somewhat compete online.

Because MMA has way more aspects to it than football for example and the football buttons can be separated easily:

On the ball
Off the ball
Ball on the ground
Ball in the air

A single button can perform 4 different actions depending on where the ball is at any given moment. MMA doesn't have that luxury.

UFC 3 utilize literally every button on the controller, transitioning from striking to blocking to grappling, imputing multiple buttons to perform uppercuts, different kicks and combinations can definitely seem overwhelming.

That's the inevitable result of creating a deep and detailed enough MMA game.

The learning curve is pretty steep and just knowing the basics may only get you through Stand and Bang mode. I get it that there are a lot of resources online to help in explaining it and i know that if you want to get good at something you have to practice, practice, rinse and repeat, but there has to be a happy medium in terms of accessibility that will keep casuals interested without them bailing ship. I don't know if making a streamline control ranked online mode would help or creating more casual modes would help. I can see both sides of the argument.

There is no happy medium. It's MMA. You can't have an easier controlscheme without taking away options.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

It’s very easy to hop into UFC and have fun on easy or with a friend. They even have stand and bang and the one with the health bars to make it even more accessible.

Most players will go pick their favorite fighter who will likely be high tier and have most of the common hard combos. Hooks, straight punches, and roundhouse kicks are easy to do and combo.

This is just a wrong assessment of how the casual player will play.

What I'm reading is a bunch of people who have played fighting games, been grandfathered in by playing UFC 1, and UFC 2, enough to write on this forum. I wanna talk about what these people think:

• 1. why the hell does the movement joystick stop doing ANYTHING on the ground?
• 2. what is this submission blueprint mayhem, and how can i never do that again?
• 3. I never saw one of these guys do a denial transition, even the ones who really dug the game.

fixing important things like that can help these casuals become players.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

^^^ Exactly, you nailed it. These people should be able to utilize all mechanics of the game as well. My friends never do transition denials either.

The goal of UFC 4 should be make all mechanics of the game accessible to these people. You can have simple mechanics and still have a deeply nuanced game - look at UD3. Also, to use a bit of an out there example, look at the ancient game of Weiqi or Go. The rules are simple, yet it results in an extremely complex and nuanced game, even more so than chess. This should be the goal for UFC 4, simple mechanics that result in a deeply nuanced game.