i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

How many of the top players do you think read a single page?

All top players in SF for ex, learn and know framedata, muatchups, pro techniques.

No matter where from they are doing this: from guide book or from mobile app or from spec sites.

All this infos EXIST in many different sources , for ex, go to App Store and check for SFV framedata, you will find not only FD itself but a calculators also.

We have NOT anything like this for EA UFC.

Why? Because the game was NOT finalized at launch, BUT now we need this.

Btw, for EVERY UDs 1-3 game were released official guide books. Btw I have all of them , ordered from USA to Russia.

What are the Guide’s objectives:
1. To guarantee that you will not miss any of the game mechanics and secrets
3. SAVE YOUR TIME, you will learn the game at its fullness WHILE it is still actual! Not when there will be dead online.
Yes, you can learn mathematics by yourself not from books, but this will take your entire life to DISCOVER what you could learn from books for 1-2 years and was ready to USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE on practice!

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

EA UFC does have a bunch of frame data that was just release by GPD. But I think the larger point about not having coverage of all game mechanics via a tutorial is completely valid. No new player would have any idea some of the mechanics are even there. For example muscle modifier, side stepping strikes, denial training. None of this has any coverage in a tutorial.

I'm a firm believer that the game is already too complicated for the casual audience. Some of the tutorial work could be cut way down if they just simplified things like denials. Martialmind has a great idea to make the denials just holding the stick. Maybe compromise and make denials holding the stick in a certain direction, where timing doesn't matter. Either way, simplification of mechanics such as the denials will go a long way towards attracting the casuals and still give us a deep system, and will cut way down on the need for tons of tutorials.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

All top players in SF for ex, learn and know framedata, muatchups, pro techniques.

Sure.

No matter where from they are doing this: from guide book or from mobile app or from spec sites.

The most common way isn't through guides & tutorials. It's through experience and going to the lab themselves.

Why? Because the game was NOT finalized at launch, BUT now we need this.

'Need' is too strong a word. But I can see why it would be nice.

What are the Guide’s objectives:
1. To guarantee that you will not miss any of the game mechanics and secrets

Sure.

3. SAVE YOUR TIME, you will learn the game at its fullness WHILE it is still actual! Not when there will be dead online.

I don't necessarily agree that it'll save you time. Since you'll also learn mechanics that are not practically relevant in the meta.

Yes, you can learn mathematics by yourself not from books, but this will take your entire life to DISCOVER what you could learn from books for 1-2 years and was ready to USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE on practice!

You don't need to learn the mathematics because exact numbers don't really matter. You just need to learn what's practically useful.

How many frames is the jab animation? Less than any other strike.

How much damage does the Jab > Rear upper > Hook > Hook combo do? Enough to stun just about anyone.

How much stamina does a body kick drain? Enough to not want to take them willingly, so option select low block when you see a kick

How many frames is the downward getup transition after you postured up in fullguard? Less than you can react to. So either hard read that getup or react to a different direction

It's about knowing what does and does not work in practice. Framedata is only relevant when you're finetuning your game (E.g. Can I or can I not in principle react to & punish with X).

When you're still mastering basics it won't help you at all.

[kehlis]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Okay, here's a SMALL workaround for the finding posts issue:

Go to advanced search where you can search by user.

You're given the option to search by a keyword and a user.

You can search a timeframe from when to find posts (for example, I chose 1 year ago and older).

I chose the word "move" but it would help if you knew more specifically what you were looking for.

My search resulted in three pages of posts from GPD from 2016 and older.

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Okay, here's a SMALL workaround for the finding posts issue:

Go to advanced search where you can search by user.

You're given the option to search by a keyword and a user.

You can search a timeframe from when to find posts (for example, I chose 1 year ago and older).

I chose the word "move" but it would help if you knew more specifically what you were looking for.

My search resulted in three pages of posts from GPD from 2016 and older.

Unfortunately GPD has many posts describing “move” for ex w/o this word, but it can help somehow.

I hope the normal finding person’s post will be fixed...

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Sure.




The most common way isn't through guides & tutorials. It's through experience and going to the lab themselves.



'Need' is too strong a word. But I can see why it would be nice.



Sure.



I don't necessarily agree that it'll save you time. Since you'll also learn mechanics that are not practically relevant in the meta.



You don't need to learn the mathematics because exact numbers don't really matter. You just need to learn what's practically useful.

How many frames is the jab animation? Less than any other strike.

How much damage does the Jab > Rear upper > Hook > Hook combo do? Enough to stun just about anyone.

How much stamina does a body kick drain? Enough to not want to take them willingly, so option select low block when you see a kick

How many frames is the downward getup transition after you postured up in fullguard? Less than you can react to. So either hard read that getup or react to a different direction

It's about knowing what does and does not work in practice. Framedata is only relevant when you're finetuning your game (E.g. Can I or can I not in principle react to & punish with X).

When you're still mastering basics it won't help you at all.

You misunderstood me - my example with “mathematics “ was about the discipline you’ve learned in college.

FD allows you as I said to SAVE YR TIME when finding the solution
W/o it it is like finding black cat in black room, yes u can do it in practice by testing but it takes more time and less concrete result.

Btw, FD in EA UFC takes less role than in SF for ex b/c it is ANALOG here instead of constant in SF which allows u to find concrete answer.



Honestly, I don’t get in which my words you disagree w me - we don’t have real step by step tutorial, don’t have enough tools to lab the game in practice, and this labbing will not be right anyway b/c there are many ANALOG things in the game so we need full and detailed Meta.

[kehlis]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Unfortunately GPD has many posts describing “move” for ex w/o this word, but it can help somehow.



I hope the normal finding person’s post will be fixed...

There is nothing to fix, the forums this site uses is designed that way. Nothing OS can do about it.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You misunderstood me - my example with “mathematics “ was about the discipline you’ve learned in college.

Oh you meant actual math.. In that case, your analogy is really off and I'm not sure how to respond to it.

FD allows you as I said to SAVE YR TIME when finding the solution
W/o it it is like finding black cat in black room, yes u can do it in practice by testing but it takes more time and less concrete result.

Same here.

Honestly, I don’t get in which my words you disagree w me - we don’t have real step by step tutorial, don’t have enough tools to lab the game in practice, and this labbing will not be right anyway b/c there are many ANALOG things in the game so we need full and detailed Meta.

The theme of this thread is that this game doesn't cater to casuals. You're bringing up a lack of tutorials & frame data as evidence of that fact and are arguing that's something that would help the average player.

I'm saying that whatever a tutorial can teach you, you can figure out on your own relatively quickly simply by playing and by reading what's already online. And that frame data only sharpens the game of players that are already good. It won't make you suddenly see the light and significantly improve in skill.

So in short. I'd like to see a tutorial and frame data, sure. I just don't think it's nearly as important or as beneficial as you're making it out to be.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Oh you meant actual math.. In that case, your analogy is really off and I'm not sure how to respond to it.



Same here.



The theme of this thread is that this game doesn't cater to casuals. You're bringing up a lack of tutorials & frame data as evidence of that fact and are arguing that's something that would help the average player.

I'm saying that whatever a tutorial can teach you, you can figure out on your own relatively quickly simply by playing and by reading what's already online. And that frame data only sharpens the game of players that are already good. It won't make you suddenly see the light and significantly improve in skill.

So in short. I'd like to see a tutorial and frame data, sure. I just don't think it's nearly as important or as beneficial as you're making it out to be.

A tutorial wouldn't be so important if the game weren't so complicated for casual players. The Game Changer Martial Mind even agrees that denials are too complicated for casual players, and I agree. And add to that muscle modifier and everything else that isn't explained anywhere...it all adds up to a tutorial being quite important.

It shouldn't have to be this way though. Let's hope they do something smart for UFC 4 and simplify things like denials and other game mechanics just a bit.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

A tutorial wouldn't be so important if the game weren't so complicated for casual players. The Game Changer Martial Mind even agrees that denials are too complicated for casual players, and I agree. And add to that muscle modifier and everything else that isn't explained anywhere...it all adds up to a tutorial being quite important.

Denials aren't really complicated. They're just difficult to perform and some animations are a bit ambiguous.

Let's hope they do something smart for UFC 4 and simplify things like denials and other game mechanics just a bit.

They shouldn't simplify a damn thing. If anything it's not complicated and nuanced enough.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Denials aren't really complicated. They're just difficult to perform and some animations are a bit ambiguous.

Exactly. They're complicated for a casual to perform when they want to, period.

They shouldn't simplify a damn thing. If anything it's not complicated and nuanced enough.

That's your opinion. Apparently a lot of people agree with the OP that the game is too complicated for casuals. If we want UFC 4 to be successful, we need to appeal to common sense and make things a tad bit simpler while still having nuance. Look at Undisputed 3 ground denials. Simple, yet still a nuanced ground game.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Exactly. They're complicated for a casual to perform when they want to, period.

Again, no.

Complexity =/= Difficulty

If someone transitions, hold R2 and press the right stick in the direction they're transitioning in to deny it.

Nothing about the above sentence is complicated, it's just difficult to do in practice because you need to recognize which animations go with each direction and you have a small time window to perform your denial.

That's your opinion.

Of course it's my opinion.

Apparently a lot of people agree with the OP that the game is too complicated for casuals.

Casuals generally play other casuals. In which case the difficulty isn't really an issue because both parties suck.

If we want UFC 4 to be successful, we need to appeal to common sense and make things a tad bit simpler while still having nuance.

Dumbing down a game is the easiest way to lose your loyal fan base and make for a worse fighting game in general.

Look at Undisputed 3 ground denials. Simple, yet still a nuanced ground game.

Never played Undisputed so I can't comment on it.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

SF had official physical game guides about 400 pages with all framedata , matchups, etc
StarCraft too - large hardcover guide for every chapter.

so you are wrong here

This is nonsense lol. Here is the manual for the original Street Fighter 2. One of the biggest influences SF 2 had was combos, which was a bug. Animation cancels and cross-ups are bugs as well and the game did not teach you how to do those.

Brood War was notorious for people discovering bugs and utilizing them. People are still figuring out new bugs to this date. I'd love to see your hardcover guide feature them. Wave dashing in Melee is not an intended mechanic that the players figured out, which is why Brawl had the slipping mechanic to counteract it.. Rocket jumping was an unintentional mechanic. Dota 2 is filled with bugs that became mechanics (denying, stacking creeps). In League, Alistar's headbutt+pulv combo is a bug that the devs fixed but brought back due to fan complaints.

Yes, modern games have more readily available materials for in-game information, but that was not the case in the 90's and early 00's. Committed players discovered new tactics and they spread it around.

[NEWSS]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

As a casual (offline) player I can give my 2 cents. Striking: I find it very complicated to input some combinations of 2-3 buttons at the same time for certain strikes, especially to perform in the heat of a fight. Grappling: I find it very difficult to deny transitions. Holding a position by holding a direction like in Undisputed makes more sense in my humble opinion.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

As a casual (offline) player I can give my 2 cents. Striking: I find it very complicated to input some combinations of 2-3 buttons at the same time for certain strikes, especially to perform in the heat of a fight. Grappling: I find it very difficult to deny transitions. Holding a position by holding a direction like in Undisputed makes more sense in my humble opinion.

Yeah. I Have used never used deny transition in a fight.