i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

What I'm reading is a bunch of people who have played fighting games, been grandfathered in by playing UFC 1, and UFC 2, enough to write on this forum. I wanna talk about what these people think:

• 1. why the hell does the movement joystick stop doing ANYTHING on the ground?
  
• 2. what is this submission blueprint mayhem, and how can i never do that again?
  
• 3. I never saw one of these guys do a denial transition, even the ones who really dug the game.
  

fixing important things like that can help these casuals become players.

Except I’m not talking about my experience, I’m talking about what those people think. I know people like this. I’ve seen how they play the game. They are fine with it for their purposes.

You’re watching a video for entertainment purposes. I’m watching how people play when it’s just them and their friends.

They want to throw punches and get knockouts on their buds. The game is ridiculously satisfying in that regard.

All the other aspects of the game are complex because they have to be complex. MMA has so many facets, it’s amazing that they even got this far and this cohesive.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I want to agree with some of you guys but the fact that all of these people apparently can't deny a single transition is their fault. It's honestly because they are just trying to shove a square peg into a circular hole and wondering why it won't go in.

You literally just hold R2 and flick in a direction based off the animation, it is seriously not that complicated if you put a little time into it. Many of these people go to college or have four year degrees, you literally just hold a button and flick the stick when they move a certain direction.

[RetractedMonkey]

i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I really question why people who frequent the board aka noncasuals are so adamant about dumbing the game down.

I truly think it all goes back to them wanting to be good at the game because almost a year after release they’re still stuck in division four.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I want to agree with some of you guys but the fact that all of these people apparently can't deny a single transition is their fault. It's honestly because they are just trying to shove a square peg into a circular hole and wondering why it won't go in.

You literally just hold R2 and flick in a direction based off the animation, it is seriously not that complicated if you put a little time into it. Many of these people go to college or have four year degrees, you literally just hold a button and flick the stick when they move a certain direction.

Exactly, and much, much time to learn how to deny a majority of the many transitions - takedowns, takedowns against the cage, all the ground transitions, all of the numerous clinch transitions. Casuals by definition do NOT want to put this time into the game, yet they should still be able to deny these transtions in a simple manner.

The denials we have currently are just not a very elegant solution at all in my opinion.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I really question why people who frequent the board aka noncasuals are so adamant about dumbing the game down.

I truly think it all goes back to them wanting to be good at the game because almost a year after release they’re still stuck in division four.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

This is what blows my mind. Any game I've wanted to be good at, I've spent time in the lab with it and googled ****. Those of you that are top players, I'd imagine you did the same to achieve the level you have.

I could be wrong, but a tutorial or dumbing the game down isn't going to bring any more fans over: a) I doubt they'll go through the tutorial or they'll only complete the bare minimum to get to a match; b) No one is buying a game for ease of access. Even if the game being complicated leads to the game being returned, EA still got their money so

I feel like I'm a casual fan compared to you guys and I consider my friends more casual than myself. Fun with an MMA game for them is Rock 'em sock 'em. When I go to take someone down, there's loud groans and boos as if I'm Jon Fitch. I honestly think some of you hardcore guys are so removed from a casual perspective that you confuse your wants and needs from a casual need.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Except I’m not talking about my experience, I’m talking about what those people think. I know people like this. I’ve seen how they play the game. They are fine with it for their purposes.

You’re watching a video for entertainment purposes. I’m watching how people play when it’s just them and their friends.

They want to throw punches and get knockouts on their buds. The game is ridiculously satisfying in that regard.

All the other aspects of the game are complex because they have to be complex. MMA has so many facets, it’s amazing that they even got this far and this cohesive.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

eh? I took all those pictures. i watched all those people play the game for the first time. I've watched what they press when they are grabbed, what they do in a submission. all the same questions and confusions repeated. And I'm telling you people don't JUST wanna bang, and I'm telling you there are simple easy fixes to make them understand the game alot faster, whiles also making the game deeper and more dynamic.

EDIT: And I have NEVER said anything about dumbing the game down. Stop gaslighting me

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You don't have to expressly say you want the game dumbed down for me to infer you want the game dumbed down.

A singular option to block all transitions is by definition dumbing the game down.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

This is what blows my mind. Any game I've wanted to be good at, I've spent time in the lab with it and googled ****. Those of you that are top players, I'd imagine you did the same to achieve the level you have.

I could be wrong, but a tutorial or dumbing the game down isn't going to bring any more fans over: a) I doubt they'll go through the tutorial or they'll only complete the bare minimum to get to a match; b) No one is buying a game for ease of access. Even if the game being complicated leads to the game being returned, EA still got their money so

I feel like I'm a casual fan compared to you guys and I consider my friends more casual than myself. Fun with an MMA game for them is Rock 'em sock 'em. When I go to take someone down, there's loud groans and boos as if I'm Jon Fitch. I honestly think some of you hardcore guys are so removed from a casual perspective that you confuse your wants and needs from a casual need.

Exactly, these guys are so far removed from the casual fans perspective. And the likely reason they are booing when you take them down is that they can't do what they want to on the ground.

It really doesn't have to be this way. For example, making denials holding the stick in the right direction would be a major improvement instead of geeking out over memorizing animations to the point that you can actually deny them in a real time fight.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Exactly, these guys are so far removed from the casual fans perspective. And the likely reason they are booing when you take them down is that they can't do what they want to on the ground.

It really doesn't have to be this way. For example, making denials holding the stick in the right direction would be a major improvement instead of geeking out over memorizing animations to the point that you can actually deny them in a real time fight.

No, they're booing because they don't understand the ground in real life and/or they don't want the pace of the game to slow/make watching less appealing.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

nonsense is that when you compare to the game 1991 years, when no one knew word "frame", "cyber sport", etc.

Where do you think the fighting game terminology originated from? Also, eSports (not cyber sports) is just a branding name.

One more example from your logic - old MKs players were not using frame data, but now fd exists in the game itself... so, from your logic FD is not needed and pro players dont need this b/c old players (MK1-3) played w/o it.

I claimed no such thing. What I said is that there have been considerably more complex games with hardly any meta-data available that got solved by the players experimenting and sharing. Jab-uppercut-lead hook was not discovered because of frame data or because the game listed all the best combinations.

Your MK example is particularly funny, since the actual meta combos are not in the game. MK only shows the basic combos you can do pressing the correct button combination (let's say 1, f2, f3 for instance). It, however, completely neglects juggling and combos that rely on special move animation cancels.

You are wrong - the current level of pro scene in fightings much MORE higher than before

This is off-topic to the actual conversation which was that do we really need all the information to figure the game out but I'll address it anyway. Yes, fighting games are at their peak but it still pales in comparison to Brood War, for instance, which again did not have all this information you want available.

And especially b/c of ability to use new type of info in fightings (fd + youtube + guides +advanced practice tools + record and analyze replays tools+ worldwide internet MP , etc) - all these things appears only in last years !

And they cover aspects of fighting games that were figured out years ago. Footsies game has not really changed over the years. The only new features are whichever gimmick features each title has (e.g. V-Trigger in SF 5). The fundamentals are still the same and while they make the game easier for beginners to understand, they are not things pro players didn't already know from playing at high ranks.

of course i am talking about SF4+.

Have you tried the tutorial for SF 5 mate? It's somehow worse than UFC's.

sometimes, i am thinking that someone just want to offense, not about discussing the object.

object - is 1. lack of tutorial in EA UFC 2. analog and complexity ("difficulty") of game mechanics ... so 3. low level of pro gaming in EA UFC (b/c the most uses max 1/3 of its features).
THIS is the problem and the object of this discussion.

I think others kinda addressed this well already. Beginners do not need to know about momentum transitions and pivots. They pretty evidently classify as advanced moves. On the other hand, if the pros (Not that I'd call anyone who plays UFC a pro) are not utilizing certain mechanics it has probably less to do with them being unaware of them and more that they are not actually that strong. Which gameplay features do you think are underutilized compared to their competitive viability?

Now OBVIOUSLY the game would benefit from a proper tutorial and if it explained all its mechanics. Nobody is denying that. My issue was with your claim that the lack of information is why people have not discovered all the mechanics/features. More complex games were figured out with less available data. All the current fighting game/FPS/RTS/Moba high levels tactics, concepts and terminology are based on what people discovered 10-25 years ago.

In my opinion what holds the game back for new players is the bonkers control scheme. I have not met one player who did not take at least a couple of days just to learn the basics of this game's controls. Your average player is gonna take even longer than that. You can't have a casual gamer come over and play the game with you because of the struggle he'll have with the controls.

The controls are fine when you get used to them but I don't see why not include a more simplified control scheme that takes out the less essential aspects (sideways striking comes to mind). Other sports games already have optional simplified controls so why not?

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You don't have to expressly say you want the game dumbed down for me to infer you want the game dumbed down.

A singular option to block all transitions is by definition dumbing the game down.

When did I say I wanted a singular option to block all transitions?

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

No, they're booing because they don't understand the ground in real life and/or they don't want the pace of the game to slow/make watching less appealing.

I believe it's a combination of both. They don't understand the ground in real life and they can't make it work for them in the game; they can't defend themselves by denying transitions.

The ground game doesn't have to be so slow. Making transitions take much less short term stamina would improve the pace of the ground game significantly.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Forget transition blocking. No newcomer is going to block. You have to know all the animations to actually block something or just guess.

This is a big problem. You really can't be effective in grappling without denying transitions, so this alternate control scheme offers very ineffective grappling controls without defensive options on the ground.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Exactly, these guys are so far removed from the casual fans perspective. And the likely reason they are booing when you take them down is that they can't do what they want to on the ground.

It really doesn't have to be this way. For example, making denials holding the stick in the right direction would be a major improvement instead of geeking out over memorizing animations to the point that you can actually deny them in a real time fight.

I believe it's a combination of both. They don't understand the ground in real life and they can't make it work for them in the game; they can't defend themselves by denying transitions.

The ground game doesn't have to be so slow. Making transitions take much less short term stamina would improve the pace of the ground game significantly.

This is pretty much my point; don't mean any disrespect. RM (this is what I'm going to call him because his name is too damn long even though this explanation is way longer...) hit the nail on the head.

Casual fans don't understand the ground game, guys. It has nothing to do with the game. At all. If they're casual, they're not gonna know the nuances of BJJ or maybe even wrestling. They're casual fans. They know what a takedown is and that full mount is game over. And guess what..... they don't care to learn any more than that. That's not on the game; that's on the sport or the fan itself. Instead of challenging developers to be more knowledgeable about their casual fans, challenge those casual fans to be more knowledgeable about the sport.

Football is to me what MMA is to some of you. Love it. Obsessed with it. I'd be ****ing pissed if someone could go through a tutorial on Madden and somehow be on or near the same level as me even though I played and coached the sport.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Casuals do NOT go deep into EA UFC3 NOT b/c they are casual , but b/c the there are NO step by step from 0, interesting and interactive tutorial w categories (beginner, advanced, pro).

That’s all.

No need more words here.

Casuals are not enjoying the game and goes deep ONLY b/c of THIS, and not b/c the game is too hardcore or complex!

Example: Virtua Fighter 4 was very hardcore and deep but it has the best Tutorial ever - and it was very popular and MANY casuals started the game were baiting to go deeper b/c off Tutorial.