i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[oshighwayman]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

hi everyone
first i want to apologize for such a long first post, it wasnt my intention i guess frustration got better of me.
but i think overall it s good to illustrate mindset of somebody who bought game lately and played ufc2 and come to brand new confusing world.


i will try to be as brief as possible:


1. TUTORIAL- i agree 100% with Sugata, there needs to be some tutorial, and this was said about UFC2, game is way too complicated and only true fan of EA UFC will spend hours and hours by testing all possible situations with two controllers or friend and keep digging for hours and hours on forum and social media for information.


i might be wrong but there was barely any information on momentum transitions before ufcdev post. there were some ppl out there counting frames but we re talking about this forum where elite of the world of UFC game is present.


this just illustrate that this game has real information problem and sad truth about mankind in general is we re looking for shortcuts, we want things handed to us directly in no time, nicely wrapped.


if i for example google some question about UFC3 there s not that match exact search results with info i look for


there s topic on this forum called EA UFC 3: Teach Me How To Thread
it s great ideaand good source but it also got 42 pages and it takes some time

when i decided to learn ground game in UFC2 it took me hours of trying to remember animations and how to deny them i had to use 2 controllers and doing transitions and watching hud, watch youtube or read ufcdev post about momentum transitions or his explanation of mechanics of ground game, what gaves GA etc.


if i remember correctly in UFC1 carreer u have to go through some kind of "training" where u have to do combos or spar or do jiujutsu or whatever to earn some experience points and i want to say that was nice way how to introduce players to game mechanics, combos, ground game etc.


it would be nice to have something like that, so anyone who finishes career will have at least basics for online play.


one thing i want to mention, some of this stuff, like spending HOURS and HOURS on youtube, forums, tutorials, training mode etc. it feels like having a JOB and big question is what s reward.


right now on UFC3 UT i got a lot of this: "cant find opponnent" that means not of people play this mode right now, that means matchmaking have hard time finding me opponent on equal skill,that means even if i am willing to spend hours and hours and learn mechanics of this game, it will be probably not worth it, because even if i get good and achieve something more than div3 i will still probably get that message again n again, because people might give up on game having same or similar matchmaking problems or they wont like changes of new patch or whatever change their mind etc.


and that s really making me sad, because i paid for game and i want to enjoy it


2. i like real UFC but here re biggest issues of this game:


a, player count, hard to find players of equal skill level is big problem, because game is most fun and entertaining when both guys have chance to win or loose and nobody is dominating whole fight



b, combo spam, top players or highly skilled players on this forum said again n again they got no problem with pressure fighters, but i want to say from ufc2 days div 1-6 especially lighter ones were totally plagued with insane hit stun combos


and i WOULD say this, it would be nice, if EA takes notes from real UFC, what s the most kicks, punches, strikes etc. thrown in UFC fights and adjust stamina accordingly
-my first online ufc 3 fight had like 300strikes thrown by opponent and i am thinking is this real are we still on planet Earth
-watching real UFC fight with Lewis/Volkov and then playing against Volkov in UT ufc3 and guy throws 5-6 strikes combos over and over again and barely gas out, i dont know what to think, it almost feels like EA likes to push and support this style and heavyweight divison is nothing like that
Derrick Lewis fought Mark Hunt like he s lightweight and he got gassed out so badly he lost the fight, of course Derrick got problems with his back and his gas tank, but it still gives u idea how game should probably operate little more
i know it s just video game but little realism would be nice sometimes


i dont have enough information but i think i heard that strikes hitting ur block eat less stamina than strikes that misses u, i mean strike is strike, why is so much push for this block breaking,at least that s how it seems to me, but again i am no expert


/after reading somebody s comment here that countering hooks is easiest thing to do, i went to training mode, i put jab, hook, hook on Stipe while being Lewis, i tried any evasive maneuver i could think of, i watched some youtube where guy said to counter hooks with overhand etc. .. well i figured i could duck under one of them and then got hit by another, i could walk away and time some 1-2 but overall i felt really bad and almost humilated, like what the heck is wrong, is my reaction slow, where to time this and that,what i am doing wrong. again it will be really nice to have all of this in some tutorial, information nicely put together, because for some people time is precious and confusing, frustration can get better of u and then u just end up not wanting to play game


somebody here said u will love game after u get through phase of confusion and frustration, but for some people they will never get through, because they have no real map, no real tutorial, accessible help/


c. game prefers stand up and i think there should be more focus on other aspects too, if somebody throws 5-6 strikes combo he should be that comfortable denying takedown right after while draining ur stamina for one failed takedown a lot. Connor was so scared of Khabib takedown that he got dropped by Khabib s overhand and Khabib is not striker at all, strikes should be scared of grappler with high takedown stats


d. body punches drains way too much stamina, again this whole section 2, take it it s from me who s div3 UT, i dont know if body health and how high its stat is is connected to possible stamina loss because again it s not explained anywhere, but if somebody is going forward tickling u with fast body jab it looks to me it drains way too much stamina


3. CONTROLS- having xbox 360, OG ONE, xbox X and using xbox controllers for almost a decade, i simply dont understand what is this thing with pressing 2buttons at same time, i personally dont remember any game in this last 10years which used this combination for some game move u would use a lot, i dont think it goes well with how controller is designed and i dont think that punch+kick is good combo to punch at same time, becaues if u do it wrong u will end up doing kick which will make really vulnerable and possibly KOed


it s not exactly some extra special feature of computer games to offer alternate controls, remapping of controls or something like that


i think it s safe to say that controls turned some people away from game


u shouldnt be forced to buy some extra expensive controller with extra functions to fix this problem


4. INPUT LAG-or what s going on here. i am fighting with this thing, opponent ends up his combo i want to counter strike, or at least that s what i am thinking in my head. here s what s happening, if i have some kind of elbow strike equipped, i will end up doing elbow strike, even i am not physically holding block anymore, but game still register like i do.
this leads to another problem. i am fighting guy who throws something like this superman punch, hook, hook, hook.
i am trying to time block this time better, i block SP, hook, hook and i got rocked by last hook and i dont get it.


so at the end of the day i got lost in thoughts i guess here s what i was trying to say:


real UFC is trying to make sport widely popular, and i think that s what this game or next one should try also


i am not asking for dumbing down a game, i am asking for real explaining of game mechanics, so everyone new to game would understand, to give players some real foundation on which they can build


i am asking for some quality of life improvements as well


i want this game or next one to be played as many people as possible with different levels of skills so everyone can enjoy themselves


PS- as for ground game, i think fakes needs to go, because they re not any fakes in real UFC, ground positions needs more transitions, escapes, i think u should be able to hold enemy in any position to slow him down or whatever, striking from bottom should have some power too, look at Bisping/GSP fight how GSP face looked after, i think submission mini-game should be retired forever and instead it should be some transition chain combined with GNP, holding, blocking etc fight, fighter should be fighting over position, not just transition left,right, right, right, left like snails in vaseline, or laying on top of each other waiting for each other s deny with baby punches, arm traps should be reversing position they should just catch punch, get some stamina hit, it would be nice if they do something like Fedor/Bigfoot GnP defense offense, head movement on ground evading strikes etc. on clinch and ground fighters should be also move more freely and clinch movements should also either increase or decrease power of incoming strike.



that s just some random thoughts, thanks for listening

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

hi everyone
first i want to apologize for such a long first post, it wasnt my intention i guess frustration got better of me.
but i think overall it s good to illustrate mindset of somebody who bought game lately and played ufc2 and come to brand new confusing world.


i will try to be as brief as possible:


1. TUTORIAL- i agree 100% with Sugata, there needs to be some tutorial, and this was said about UFC2, game is way too complicated and only true fan of EA UFC will spend hours and hours by testing all possible situations with two controllers or friend and keep digging for hours and hours on forum and social media for information.


i might be wrong but there was barely any information on momentum transitions before ufcdev post. there were some ppl out there counting frames but we re talking about this forum where elite of the world of UFC game is present.


this just illustrate that this game has real information problem and sad truth about mankind in general is we re looking for shortcuts, we want things handed to us directly in no time, nicely wrapped.


if i for example google some question about UFC3 there s not that match exact search results with info i look for


there s topic on this forum called EA UFC 3: Teach Me How To Thread
it s great ideaand good source but it also got 42 pages and it takes some time

when i decided to learn ground game in UFC2 it took me hours of trying to remember animations and how to deny them i had to use 2 controllers and doing transitions and watching hud, watch youtube or read ufcdev post about momentum transitions or his explanation of mechanics of ground game, what gaves GA etc.


if i remember correctly in UFC1 carreer u have to go through some kind of "training" where u have to do combos or spar or do jiujutsu or whatever to earn some experience points and i want to say that was nice way how to introduce players to game mechanics, combos, ground game etc.


it would be nice to have something like that, so anyone who finishes career will have at least basics for online play.


one thing i want to mention, some of this stuff, like spending HOURS and HOURS on youtube, forums, tutorials, training mode etc. it feels like having a JOB and big question is what s reward.


right now on UFC3 UT i got a lot of this: "cant find opponnent" that means not of people play this mode right now, that means matchmaking have hard time finding me opponent on equal skill,that means even if i am willing to spend hours and hours and learn mechanics of this game, it will be probably not worth it, because even if i get good and achieve something more than div3 i will still probably get that message again n again, because people might give up on game having same or similar matchmaking problems or they wont like changes of new patch or whatever change their mind etc.


and that s really making me sad, because i paid for game and i want to enjoy it


2. i like real UFC but here re biggest issues of this game:


a, player count, hard to find players of equal skill level is big problem, because game is most fun and entertaining when both guys have chance to win or loose and nobody is dominating whole fight



b, combo spam, top players or highly skilled players on this forum said again n again they got no problem with pressure fighters, but i want to say from ufc2 days div 1-6 especially lighter ones were totally plagued with insane hit stun combos


and i WOULD say this, it would be nice, if EA takes notes from real UFC, what s the most kicks, punches, strikes etc. thrown in UFC fights and adjust stamina accordingly
-my first online ufc 3 fight had like 300strikes thrown by opponent and i am thinking is this real are we still on planet Earth
-watching real UFC fight with Lewis/Volkov and then playing against Volkov in UT ufc3 and guy throws 5-6 strikes combos over and over again and barely gas out, i dont know what to think, it almost feels like EA likes to push and support this style and heavyweight divison is nothing like that
Derrick Lewis fought Mark Hunt like he s lightweight and he got gassed out so badly he lost the fight, of course Derrick got problems with his back and his gas tank, but it still gives u idea how game should probably operate little more
i know it s just video game but little realism would be nice sometimes


i dont have enough information but i think i heard that strikes hitting ur block eat less stamina than strikes that misses u, i mean strike is strike, why is so much push for this block breaking,at least that s how it seems to me, but again i am no expert


/after reading somebody s comment here that countering hooks is easiest thing to do, i went to training mode, i put jab, hook, hook on Stipe while being Lewis, i tried any evasive maneuver i could think of, i watched some youtube where guy said to counter hooks with overhand etc. .. well i figured i could duck under one of them and then got hit by another, i could walk away and time some 1-2 but overall i felt really bad and almost humilated, like what the heck is wrong, is my reaction slow, where to time this and that,what i am doing wrong. again it will be really nice to have all of this in some tutorial, information nicely put together, because for some people time is precious and confusing, frustration can get better of u and then u just end up not wanting to play game


somebody here said u will love game after u get through phase of confusion and frustration, but for some people they will never get through, because they have no real map, no real tutorial, accessible help/


c. game prefers stand up and i think there should be more focus on other aspects too, if somebody throws 5-6 strikes combo he should be that comfortable denying takedown right after while draining ur stamina for one failed takedown a lot. Connor was so scared of Khabib takedown that he got dropped by Khabib s overhand and Khabib is not striker at all, strikes should be scared of grappler with high takedown stats


d. body punches drains way too much stamina, again this whole section 2, take it it s from me who s div3 UT, i dont know if body health and how high its stat is is connected to possible stamina loss because again it s not explained anywhere, but if somebody is going forward tickling u with fast body jab it looks to me it drains way too much stamina


3. CONTROLS- having xbox 360, OG ONE, xbox X and using xbox controllers for almost a decade, i simply dont understand what is this thing with pressing 2buttons at same time, i personally dont remember any game in this last 10years which used this combination for some game move u would use a lot, i dont think it goes well with how controller is designed and i dont think that punch+kick is good combo to punch at same time, becaues if u do it wrong u will end up doing kick which will make really vulnerable and possibly KOed


it s not exactly some extra special feature of computer games to offer alternate controls, remapping of controls or something like that


i think it s safe to say that controls turned some people away from game


u shouldnt be forced to buy some extra expensive controller with extra functions to fix this problem


4. INPUT LAG-or what s going on here. i am fighting with this thing, opponent ends up his combo i want to counter strike, or at least that s what i am thinking in my head. here s what s happening, if i have some kind of elbow strike equipped, i will end up doing elbow strike, even i am not physically holding block anymore, but game still register like i do.
this leads to another problem. i am fighting guy who throws something like this superman punch, hook, hook, hook.
i am trying to time block this time better, i block SP, hook, hook and i got rocked by last hook and i dont get it.


so at the end of the day i got lost in thoughts i guess here s what i was trying to say:


real UFC is trying to make sport widely popular, and i think that s what this game or next one should try also


i am not asking for dumbing down a game, i am asking for real explaining of game mechanics, so everyone new to game would understand, to give players some real foundation on which they can build


i am asking for some quality of life improvements as well


i want this game or next one to be played as many people as possible with different levels of skills so everyone can enjoy themselves


PS- as for ground game, i think fakes needs to go, because they re not any fakes in real UFC, ground positions needs more transitions, escapes, i think u should be able to hold enemy in any position to slow him down or whatever, striking from bottom should have some power too, look at Bisping/GSP fight how GSP face looked after, i think submission mini-game should be retired forever and instead it should be some transition chain combined with GNP, holding, blocking etc fight, fighter should be fighting over position, not just transition left,right, right, right, left like snails in vaseline, or laying on top of each other waiting for each other s deny with baby punches, arm traps should be reversing position they should just catch punch, get some stamina hit, it would be nice if they do something like Fedor/Bigfoot GnP defense offense, head movement on ground evading strikes etc. on clinch and ground fighters should be also move more freely and clinch movements should also either increase or decrease power of incoming strike.



that s just some random thoughts, thanks for listening

Basically, https://youtu.be/D0Slm5GMFYY how Soul Calibur did their tutorial system.

And I will disagree with the body punches, they are some of the riskiest strikes to land due to the uppercuts and they already reduced the damage on them.

Can I see some gameplay footage of you playing? I could definitely give you a hand on landing counters and whatnot, that's pretty much my forte. That is, if you're on PS4. A common error is that people try to strike back too soon while somebody is throwing a combination, we've even seen the defensive master Floyd Mayweather get caught against Maidana when he tried to pull counter in the middle of Maidanas combination. Reading the pattern first is imperative to counter striking, not counter striking immediately every moment it's there, otherwise it is predictable.

And being consciously aware of what you press is key. I too, had struggled with the infamous leg kick instead of uppercut, until I realized that it wasn't anything wrong with the input, it was just me and I took the time in practice mode to get rid of trying to mash the button too eagerly.


Also, Ultimate Team consists of overpowered fighters in general, so anything regarding power/stats/etc is taken with a grain a salt being that you know, these are custom guys with custom perks put on, God forbid you run into some dude with 5 star everything.

Taking down people after whiffed strikes has been made way easier. You can take people down with an ankle pick if they whiff a body kick, if you have a 90+ TD Offense you can get the undeniable Takedowns on them with the right timing or if they miss a strike. (Something that can be practiced without somebody else or a second controller, for the sassy MacGowan)

Fun fact people don't seem to know:

If you dodge two strikes it is a nearly undeniable Double Unders.

Momentum transitions are definitely something they need to explain better, I agree with you there.

I agree with having a more free flowing grappling system, but that will have to be in UFC 4. I consider the fakes on the ground being the closest thing to hand fighting on the ground honestly. You see guys in BJJ play with positions looking for an opening, then spurt when it's there. I've always wanted denials to drain less though, being a collegiate Wrestler we're constantly in the ties, fighting for underhooks, overhooks, opportunities to get to our shots or ideal positions, and we don't lose 20% of our stamina if the other wrestler adjusts his position. Same thing with takedown denials, they should not drain as much as they do, predenial or not.

Definitely think Elbows from Full Guard should do more damage as an incentive for the guy in the guard to move rather than just pitter patter with body punches in the guard.

Clinch is perfect right now, takes some skill, but once you know your set up it's good.

Overall my friend, if you need some help I will gladly help you within a reasonable time frame.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Welp, RDR2 is out.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Well said Romero ...yo Mac ...he called you sassy what you gone do about it ???





Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

yo Mac ...he called you sassy what you gone do about it ???

Sassy MacGowan, has a nice ring to it.
sounds like one of those new rappers.

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

ah, so to learn transition denials you need to buy a second controller?

You just need to play the game to learn transition denials. You don't need a second controller, that's ********. I don't get how everyone is acting like denying a transition is so hard, there aren't even that many to remember.

If you really think about it, all you have to do is hold a button and flick the stick when you see movement and you can honestly guess where they want to go depending on the position they are in ( and the position they likely want to move to ).


For instance, if you have someone in side control and you see any movement you deny sprawl immediately. Once they start getting used to you denying sprawl, they will likely move one of the other TWO directions available to them. It is not that complicated.

Top denials: Full guard (3 directions), half guard (2 directions), side control (3 directions), side saddle (2 directions), crucifix (2 directions), back mount (2 directions), back flat (1 direction to deny, deny left and right with punches instead)

Bottom denials: (3 directions), half guard (3 directions), side control (2 directions), side saddle (arm trap), crucifix (arm trap) back mount (1 direction to deny ) back flat ( no denials, 1 if they try to RNC but this is unlikely )

I just really won't be convinced that learning to deny transitions is that hard. There aren't many options to deny per position, you have context clues to indicate which transition you likely SHOULD deny and there aren't that many animations to get used to. You don't even necessarily have to learn the transition animations because the direction that they are moving or transitioning is likely the direction you will need to deny

Additionally, rolling for a year or two does not mean you know the way grappling should most effectively be implemented into a video game as other people have mentioned.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

ah, so to learn transition denials you need to buy a second controller?

No you don't. I don't own a second controller. I never once bothered actively trying to learn all the transition animations. I just played and now I know most of them. The one's I don't immediately know by heart I can pretty much guess which direction the denial is supposed to be because it's intuitive 99 out of 100 times.

It's really not all that hard.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

honestly I don't know why we're talking about this.

1: I simply responded to romero's point that he got his brother and a second controller to learn transitional denials. that doesn't seem like an easy way to figure out this stuff. neither does reading a bunch of files online to find out what is arguably the BASIS of grappling, which is 50% of what MMA is.

2: you guys are just ignoring the clear statistics that most people don't understand things like subs (GPD himself has stated this on the forum regarding their own test groups)

"i like it, i don't find it confusing"
good for you, most people do.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

honestly I don't know why we're talking about this.

1: I simply responded to romero's point that he got his brother and a second controller to learn transitional denials. that doesn't seem like an easy way to figure out this stuff. neither does reading a bunch of files online to find out what is arguably the BASIS of grappling, which is 50% of what MMA is.

Luckily all of that isn't necessary.

2: you guys are just ignoring the clear statistics that most people don't understand things like subs (GPD himself has stated this on the forum regarding their own test groups)

Because most people don't actually try to understand things like subs. And most people don't like things like subs.

It's not rocket science.

I literally cannot fathom the idea of a person genuinely trying to learn the UFC3 ground game and coming up short cognitively.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You can't possibly know what most people think. The grappling system, whilst not perfect, is pretty good.

With all due respect, if you acknowledge you don't understand it, why don't you go practice it instead of campaigning for change or, whatever it is you're actually doing?

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

You can't possibly know what most people think. The grappling system, whilst not perfect, is pretty good.

With all due respect, if you acknowledge you don't understand it, why don't you go practice it instead of campaigning for change or, whatever it is you're actually doing?

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

because EA did ****ing test groups. I'm not saying I'm in peoples heads. I'm saying they ran the math and found out what I'm telling you.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Luckily all of that isn't necessary.



Because most people don't actually try to understand things like subs. And most people don't like things like subs.

It's not rocket science.

I literally cannot fathom the idea of a person genuinely trying to learn the UFC3 ground game and coming up short cognitively.

Ah, see now that is jumping to conclusions. I'm telling you what GPD said about the test groups, and you tell me most people judt don't like subs.

even when we tell you anecdotal evidence that several BJJ guys didn't understand the subs in the game.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

because EA did ****ing test groups. I'm not saying I'm in peoples heads. I'm saying they ran the math and found out what I'm telling you.

You can still go practice it.

You've mentioned a couple of times that even BJJ guys don't understand the BJJ, as if this holds more weight (it doesn't for me).

I could put this game in front of a kick boxer and let them play with a kick boxer - if they don't understand the mechanics (of the game), them being a kick boxer doesn't help at all.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Ah, see now that is jumping to conclusions. I'm telling you what GPD said about the test groups, and you tell me most people judt don't like subs.

I'm not. I'm just really really skeptical of what you're saying.

Besides, even if you're right and there was a test group, since I don't know what kind of people were tested and how they were tested, I can't draw any conclusions from it.

What I do know however, is that most people, even people who casually enjoy MMA, seem to dislike the grappling. They might even like MMA to the point that they pay for tickets and travel to whatever part of the world to watch fights live, only to boo the ****ing ground game.

Even when we tell you anecdotal evidence that several BJJ guys didn't understand the subs in the game.

If they didn't understand the sub game they either didn't spend 5 minutes of their time reading and actually trying to understand what's going on. Or they have far below average IQ's.

We're not trying to calculate the circumference of a black hole's event horizon. My 10 year old ADHD nephew knows how to deny on the ground. I literally managed to explain the basics to him before he lost focus. He can do it now. This isn't hyperbole either.

It's going to take more than "People I know can't do it" to convince me that they actually tried.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

My PSN is GrimLeiper. Hook me up and we can have a fight. Maybe we can clear some things up.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app