i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Casual fans don't understand the ground game, guys. It has nothing to do with the game. At all. If they're casual, they're not gonna know the nuances of BJJ or maybe even wrestling. They're casual fans.

Gonna call BS on this, my good friend. taught two blue belt BJJ practitioners how to grapple in this game, and neither could really get the hang of it. especially the subs. They both ended up as kinda Khabib GnPrs. Gamers however were alot faster. Gamers new to the game picked up a lot faster to what I told them.

edit: one blue belt me and a friend had playing 10 fights in SP. she really wanted to learn how to do her stuff on the ground. was kinda sad to see her struggle

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

This is pretty much my point; don't mean any disrespect. RM (this is what I'm going to call him because his name is too damn long even though this explanation is way longer...) hit the nail on the head.

Casual fans don't understand the ground game, guys. It has nothing to do with the game. At all. If they're casual, they're not gonna know the nuances of BJJ or maybe even wrestling. They're casual fans. They know what a takedown is and that full mount is game over. And guess what..... they don't care to learn any more than that. That's not on the game; that's on the sport or the fan itself. Instead of challenging developers to be more knowledgeable about their casual fans, challenge those casual fans to be more knowledgeable about the sport.

Football is to me what MMA is to some of you. Love it. Obsessed with it. I'd be ****ing pissed if someone could go through a tutorial on Madden and somehow be on or near the same level as me even though I played and coached the sport.

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I know a lot of jiu jitsu guys that are knowledgable about the sport, yet they are casual gamers that can't deny transitions in this game. In fact, I would argue there are a lot of people that fall into this category. I think it makes sense to not require these people to geek out memorizing tons of animations.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

🤦🏾*♂️ your guy's examples include either a teacher of BJJ or guys involved in BJJ.....

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[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

🤦🏾*♂️ your guy's examples include either a teacher of BJJ or guys involved in BJJ.....

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They are extremely knowledgeable about the ground game in MMA. If these people are having a tough time defensively on the ground, there is a big problem and it's not because they aren't knowledgeable enough.

It's because the game mechanics are way too difficult for a casual gamer, which includes many knowledgeable MMA fans under that umbrella.

[MacGowan]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

����*♂️ your guy's examples include either a teacher of BJJ or guys involved in BJJ.....

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ah, maybe I'm misunderstanding you; I'm talking about casuals to the game, not towards MMA and combat sports.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

For example, making denials holding the stick in the right direction would be a major improvement instead of geeking out over memorizing animations to the point that you can actually deny them in a real time fight.

1) You can already do this. (Unless you mean that a single direction can block any and all transitions)

If you don't want to memorize the animations or can't recognize them in time to deny on reaction, just guess.

Pick a direction. As soon as your opponent moves, deny that direction. You'll have a > 0% chance to block them.


2) The animations are actually pretty intuitive. I never purposely tried to memorize them, but after an hour or two of playing and primarily trying to keep the fight standing, I managed to recognize the ones you deal with the most.

After a week of playing casually I know all of them. The only animations I don't all know by heart is clinching (because it seems to swap, but maybe that's just me) and certain submissions. But that's because I don't care to actually figure it out.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I mean actually holding the right stick in the correct direction to deny. Like pre denying for as long as you want, like takedowns but for transitions. Still having to have the correct direction though.


As it is now, you can’t just hold the analog stick in the direction to pre deny, it has to be timed in reaction to the animation you’ve memorized.

For the record, I have no problems with this whatsoever. But I have played tons of casuals that just want to pick up and be effective from the get go. As it is now, on the ground they can’t be.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I mean actually holding the right stick in the correct direction to deny. Like pre denying for as long as you want, like takedowns but for transitions. Still having to have the correct direction though.

As it is now, you can’t just hold the analog stick in the direction to pre deny

You'd literally be trapped in bottom half guard forever if that was the case.

it has to be timed in reaction to the animation you’ve memorized.

Like I said earlier, if you're a casual, you can just guess the direction. All you need to do is react to them moving, which isn't difficult at all. On average you'll have about a 33% chance of stopping their transition.

For the record, I have no problems with this whatsoever. But I have played tons of casuals that just want to pick up and be effective from the get go. As it is now, on the ground they can’t be.

You can't do that anywhere in the game or in any other game that has even a little dept.

You get the illusion of effectiveness in stand up (because you land hits). But any half decent player will quickly expose that actual casuals are as helpless on the feet as they are on the ground.

Anyway, I've said it before. Artificially decreasing the skill gap by making the game more shallow is good way to ruin the game. I've seen this in multiple games already, not once did it turn out right.

Casuals don't care as much as you think they do or worse, don't even notice the ****ing difference. While actual fans get pissed because the game isn't as competitive as it used to be. Nobody wins.

[SUGATA]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

DaisukEasy, you can not pre deny in Clinch and Ground- I.e. you must press Grapple Block GB DURING his Transition meter filling up to deny this move + of course in correct direction.

He was talked about even pre deny holding one for all direction for GB as in UD series.

Personally, I don’t like this way b/c it does not require timing and animation reading = much less skill.

[NEWSS]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I know a lot of jiu jitsu guys that are knowledgable about the sport, yet they are casual gamers that can't deny transitions in this game. In fact, I would argue there are a lot of people that fall into this category. I think it makes sense to not require these people to geek out memorizing tons of animations.

Yeah I'm an advanced BJJ blue belt and a casual player, they're not mutually exclusive.

[1212headkick]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

1) You can already do this. (Unless you mean that a single direction can block any and all transitions)

If you don't want to memorize the animations or can't recognize them in time to deny on reaction, just guess.

Pick a direction. As soon as your opponent moves, deny that direction. You'll have a > 0% chance to block them.


2) The animations are actually pretty intuitive. I never purposely tried to memorize them, but after an hour or two of playing and primarily trying to keep the fight standing, I managed to recognize the ones you deal with the most.

After a week of playing casually I know all of them. The only animations I don't all know by heart is clinching (because it seems to swap, but maybe that's just me) and certain submissions. But that's because I don't care to actually figure it out.

Over under my arms double under your arms

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

DaisukEasy, you can not pre deny in Clinch and Ground- I.e. you must press Grapple Block GB DURING his Transition meter filling up to deny this move + of course in correct direction.

This is not true. You can hold down R2 before the transition. It's just the direction input you have to do on reaction. And like I said, if you don't know the animations, just guess any direction.

It's a low bar reaction test. Anyone can do it.

He was talked about even pre deny holding one for all direction for GB as in UD series.

Basically turning every position into the crucifix. Death by inescapable GnP from everywhere! Sounds like something casuals would love! [/sarcasm]

Over under my arms double under your arms

What? =D

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

One thing I like about Soul Calibur 6 right now is how detailed they were in explaining each characters moves and best ideal moves to use at certain range, even throwing in info like what move stuns, what move guard breaks, etc etc.

The tutorials are great too. Maybe EA should take a look at that from Bandai and see what they can do.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I understand what you're saying and I actually agree but...

When you say that people don't care enough to get better you're 1000% correct AND that is a problem but...

The problem is they will stop playing. I don't play to compete. I play to have fun. It has to be challenging to be fun but it also has to be understandable. And I'm praying that with UFC 4 and behind we won't spend a whole year patching the game.

Not because I don't appreciate the gameplay improvements, but more that I'm hoping the game will have such a solid base BY THIS POINT, that when casual fans open the game up at launch they can learn it, play it, put it down for a little while because life happens, come back to it a month later and not wonder why all of a sudden the game feels so different and they have to relearn everything all over again and do game homework in addition to all their real world respnsiblities.

I want the next games patch cycle to be us arguing over stupid stuff that I care about like fighter additions, new venues, graphics packages etc...things that other sports titles are adding because their game play has a good enough base that they don't need to do whole sale game play changes every 30-60 days or so.

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Bang on about the patch cycles. I had every intention of buying UFC 3, but when you consider the price of £50 for a game that really wasn't finished until a year later - no way.

I waited for it to come down in price and whilst there were still patches being made, I won't really grumble because of the price I paid.

There's no doubt the patches had to be done but, in my mind at least, the game shouldn't even be released until it's ready. Patching fixes throughout the first year of its life works with some games because they can still be fun, but when it's, again in my mind, a simulation of a real sport, it can be hard to forgive the imperfections.

As for UFC 4 - it looks like they have the perfect base, for striking at least. I'd imagine the striking will only have slight tweaks or different animations but on the whole, there won't be such a learning curve going from UFC 3 to 4, compared with UFC 2 to 3.

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I think I just quoted a post from ages ago that's no longer relevant. My bad, a little stoned...

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