i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I find this topic hilarious. It’s really just a bunch of people trying to politely say that not understanding ground game basics likely means you have the IQ of someone who’s just been head kicked.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

honestly I don't know why we're talking about this.

1: I simply responded to romero's point that he got his brother and a second controller to learn transitional denials. that doesn't seem like an easy way to figure out this stuff. neither does reading a bunch of files online to find out what is arguably the BASIS of grappling, which is 50% of what MMA is.

2: you guys are just ignoring the clear statistics that most people don't understand things like subs (GPD himself has stated this on the forum regarding their own test groups)

"i like it, i don't find it confusing"
good for you, most people do.

Do you really expect people in test groups to understand the complexities of the stand up in this game either? I would love to see these cold hard statistics you're talking about too.

I expect people picking up the stand up as a tester to be absolutely trash and not understand the concepts of footwork, vulnerability, tempo, combo speed, so on and so forth. I don't expect them to immediately understand grapple advantage or the best way to submit someone either. These things take a little bit of thought and repetition.

The system itself is honestly not that complex. I'm not arguing that grappling is fun or exciting, I'm arguing that it's not that complicated to figure out. I would say it's just as hard to learn as striking, if not easier. You watch someone like GOAT play as a striker and tell me there isn't a lot of things the average player hasn't figured out yet about effective striking.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

honestly I don't know why we're talking about this.

1: I simply responded to romero's point that he got his brother and a second controller to learn transitional denials. that doesn't seem like an easy way to figure out this stuff. neither does reading a bunch of files online to find out what is arguably the BASIS of grappling, which is 50% of what MMA is.

2: you guys are just ignoring the clear statistics that most people don't understand things like subs (GPD himself has stated this on the forum regarding their own test groups)

"i like it, i don't find it confusing"
good for you, most people do.

I didn't get a 2nd controller because of UFC. It's a family of brothers, we're obviously going to need to have more than one.

Again, that's something I did because I was able to.

I also practiced with friends online when learning how to deny the Brian Ortega Cheese way back in Season 1.

None of it is rocket science, and Papadoc simplified it as much as he could.


Top denials: Full guard (3 directions), half guard (2 directions), side control (3 directions), side saddle (2 directions), crucifix (2 directions), back mount (2 directions), back flat (1 direction to deny, deny left and right with punches instead)

Bottom denials: (3 directions), half guard (3 directions), side control (2 directions), side saddle (arm trap), crucifix (arm trap) back mount (1 direction to deny ) back flat ( no denials, 1 if they try to RNC)

I'll throw in that there are also counter denials with L2+R2 that are specifically in the Reversals list depending on who you have.

Everything comes down to repetition and practice. This is not rocket science. Somebody who randomly picks up a game won't understand the intricacies of the stand up either as much as the grappling until they play it.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I love the argument “just guess the denial direction”

Casual players shouldn’t have to guess, that makes them entirely
ineffective on the ground.

Hmm... wonder why the stats say 80 percent stand and bang...

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I love the argument “just guess the denial direction”

Casual players shouldn’t have to guess, that makes them entirely
ineffective on the ground.

1) Your own proposal is literally guessing without a timing window.

"No, you would still have to hold the analog stick in the correct direction under my proposed change to denials. You would be locked out of denying in the other direction when pre denying in one direction.
So you couldn't switch directions to deny on reaction, if pre denying in the opposite direction." ~Zeta Reticulan1

2) They're casuals. They're ineffective period.

They spam on the feet and guess on the ground. Until they bother learning what's what, they won't be effective. Unless you simplify the game to the point that skill doesn't matter anymore, which is exactly what we've been arguing against for the last 10 pages.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

1) Your own proposal is literally guessing without a timing window.

"No, you would still have to hold the analog stick in the correct direction under my proposed change to denials. You would be locked out of denying in the other direction when pre denying in one direction.
So you couldn't switch directions to deny on reaction, if pre denying in the opposite direction." ~Zeta Reticulan1

2) They're casuals. They're ineffective period.

They spam on the feet and guess on the ground. Until they bother learning what's what, they won't be effective. Unless you simplify the game to the point that skill doesn't matter anymore, which is exactly what we've been arguing against for the last 10 pages.

/End thread.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

1) Your own proposal is literally guessing without a timing window.

"No, you would still have to hold the analog stick in the correct direction under my proposed change to denials. You would be locked out of denying in the other direction when pre denying in one direction.
So you couldn't switch directions to deny on reaction, if pre denying in the opposite direction." ~Zeta Reticulan1

2) They're casuals. They're ineffective period.

They spam on the feet and guess on the ground. Until they bother learning what's what, they won't be effective. Unless you simplify the game to the point that skill doesn't matter anymore, which is exactly what we've been arguing against for the last 10 pages.

I thought it was clear that guessing under the current system is laughable, again
because of the advantage non casuals have over casuals with the recognition
of small movements that need to be reacted to quickly to be effective currently.

[oshighwayman]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

No you don't. I don't own a second controller. I never once bothered actively trying to learn all the transition animations. I just played and now I know most of them. The one's I don't immediately know by heart I can pretty much guess which direction the denial is supposed to be because it's intuitive 99 out of 100 times.

It's really not all that hard.

everything is hard when u take first steps.


if it s intuitive for somebody , good for him, i am happy for him.
i personally had to go with 2 controllers and try many things in ufc2 to understand ground game and it took a long time.
some things arent intuitive at all. in crucifix denies are reversed if i remember correctly. getup animations can confuse, using bjj transition instead of regular transition can confuse, double under or which one is it in clinch denials are reversed


i had personally problem with heel hook from full mount in ufc2, because for whatever reason i was pressing opposite direction.


i mean if u want u can feel good about urself as long as u want and laugh at people who re less skilled, had less time for game than u or other priorities
at the end of day that wont bring any more playerbase it wont bring any more budget for ufc4


EA is earning mostly on their microtransaction from UT and to my understanding top players in world like Martial mind etc. are mostly concetrated in Ranked mode.


people playing UT might be weird and annoying as hell and not as skilled, but hey they bring money.


if u read review on UFC2 or 3 on Xbox Live people mostly complaing about ground game.


i dont have problem with ground game, but i put hours in it back in ufc2 days so i know what s going on and i can tell if somebody is that good with 2ms monitor or somebody is from russia and my transitions and denies register after half second than usual.


people who re new to the game will be very confused and there s high probability with no real tutorial present and low player count that they will quit at some point


what s easy for u, it s not easy for them


there re people who dont care about leaderboards, getting 50wins at LEC etc. they just want to chill out and play


this secrecy around ufc2, 3 needs to stop, i complained enough about missing real tutorial for ufc2, i put it into that survey ingame we had been offered once and then ufc3 comes out and it s again missing tutorial


i dont get it


everyone here has to ask himself, do u want UFC4 to come out, do u want more budget for game, do u want better matchmaking etc.


it s about time to do something about it


majority of people complain about ground game
so i dont know, first thing come to mind, why dont u give them something like UFC1 had, getup from any position for example? give them some support perks for it, so if they want getup in low divisions they could be have some success, but it wont be any problem for skilled grappler


give them hold from every position, why not


anyone who watched real UFC is familiar with how Ngannou or Mark Hunt fights on ground or we can go even futher to spectacular ground game of Kimbo Slice and Dada5000.


if some people want fights like that why not.
holding opponent hoping for refree to stand them up




and back to "intuitive"
it s intuitive when u got some knowledge/skill foundation, when u know what s going on


if u dont know what s going on like me in ufc3 standup u re confused and u certainly miss that tutorial which should have been there in first place


it s so intuitive that i had to find out from some youtube video, that when u actually plant kicks or punches it goes faster than when u moving and throwing


such a striking basics should be explained to u by game, by tutorial


somebody wrote here that because i am on Operation Sports forum, that means i have no excussess for anything, because we got devs here and all info


well guess what, majority of players are not on forums and first time i started looking for some info on ufc2 it wasnt OS forum which came first and i think i only discovered OS because it was mentioned there somewhere, that they re moving or what i dont remember exactly


so again u want game to be popular, u need to put info straight under people s nose, into tutorial, carreer mode etc.


some of them will never find this forum, or UFC dev twitter etc.


i understand that at certain skill level some people dont understand "peasants" anymore and everything seems easy to them


but u must eventually do something for these people if u wont want to loose them


i will give u example of two games PUBG and Fortnite
PUBG is for more skilled players, having mechanics which could be really punishing to people who dont understands them, there no aim assist etc. and it s also technical disaster on Xbox, especially on Xbox x with extreme framerate problems struggling to reach 30fps.


Fortnite is game which looks it was made for kids and it was originally some coop against zombies, aliens or what. they basically stole PUBG idea of Battle Royale but because game was longer in production they did amazing job at optimalisation and they run on 60fps and everything looks more polished and it s so easy anyone can pick it and play and i think it got some aim assist too.


Fortnite made like 1billion one year, i dont personally like building stairs to heaven and shooting on people s head with shotgun, but hey it s easy to play, it s easy to understand, technically it s masterpiece compared to PUBG with all framerate drops, server desync etc.


and people love it


why we cant do something similar?


why make such a complicated transfer from ufc2 to ufc3?


i was thinking other day, what if i had choice to turn off FAKES/Elbows etc. for example, because back in ufc2 day i could pretty much threw punches from my block when i wanted without ending up doing parry


i dont know what changed here, but doing same thing i end up doing elbows and i dont want to do that.


also i could pretty much instantly go for block in ufc2 after strike, doing that here will result in cancelled strike, a fake


i dont know if this is good or bad idea, but why not do something to ease the change, the transition from ufc2 to ufc3?


i know it s late know, but take this as an idea for the future maybe?


i know there re people out there who care deeply for this game, i know UFC dev loves this game, but what i dont understand why we got this weird artificial barriers who keep pushing people away from game


and i dont know nothing about business stuff, like if EA is giving devs enought money etc. all i know EA messed up with Star wars and lately with Battlefield V, but it s not making any business sense to me to not include features in game which could maybe keep them playing it.


so TLDR for me personally what s pushing me away is Absence of alternative control scheme and No tutorial.


if UFC4 happen can we please can get real tutorial and ability to remap controls or alternative to it?



that s all thanks for listening


PS- people saying u need to flick for deny, this was one of the biggest complaints in UFC2, people flicking and wondering why deny wont work, u must HOLD deny, not flick

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

Exactly oshighwayman. The majority of complaints are about the ground game.

So give casuals an alternative option on the ground to hold predenials.
Would help with lag as well.

An alternative control scheme for striking would definitely make sense also.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I just look at the way that guy types and immediately understand why he has so much trouble.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

the advantage non casuals have over casuals with the recognition
of small movements that need to be reacted to quickly to be effective currently.

"Advantage non casuals have over casuals with the recognition"

One group plays the game more than another person.

So, to get better at the game, you play more! Not a hard concept to grasp.

That's like me walking into Tekken or Soul Calibur as a casual player and getting frustrated about not knowing how to do a Guard Impact or Guard Breaker.

@oshighwayman

I was the one that posted that the tutorials should be more in depth like Soul Calibur. There are tutorials in the game, but not quite like SC VI.

All they really need is a tutorial for (from what I feel): Slip Counters, Undeniable TDs, Building GA, Working Momentum when Grappling and how to work the Lunges.

Which reminds me, I need to learn how to post videos onto the forums without it being a link, through mobile, I want to make a much more in-depth visual thread for Undeniable TDs, and other things, since I already have a thread that explains it in writing.

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

I just look at the way that guy types and immediately understand why he has so much trouble.

Trying to read that nearly gave me a stroke honestly

[Zeta Reticulan1]

i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

One group plays the game more than another person.

So, to get better at the game, you play more! Not a hard concept to grasp.

What exactly aren’t you understanding here Romero? These are casuals that are not going to play the game for countless hours on end to learn all of the intricacies. Not a hard concept to grasp.

I seriously worry about Ret arded Monkey’s reading comprehension. Other posters have brought this up in the past as well. As I have stated already monkey, I have zero issues. These are issues that many people we know are experiencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[DaisukEasy]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

What exactly aren’t you understanding here Romero? These are casuals that are not going to play the game for countless hours on end to learn all of the intricacies. Not a hard concept to grasp.

And as a consequence they're not as good at a game that has dept and requires skill. As it should be; This isn't Mario Kart.

Your point is literally that white belts aren't as good as purple belts, let alone black belts and therefore we should change the rules of BJJ so that people who aren't willing to train as hard can compete in tournaments to.

It's quite possibly the single dumbest argument I've ever read anywhere.

[Papadoc60]

Re: i feel like this game is not for casual players at all

What exactly aren’t you understanding here Romero? These are casuals that are not going to play the game for countless hours on end to learn all of the intricacies. Not a hard concept to grasp.

I seriously worry about Ret arded Monkey’s reading comprehension. Other posters have brought this up in the past as well. As I have stated already monkey, I have zero issues. These are issues that many people we know are experiencing.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

That's why they aren't going to be good at the game though. They can go play offline on easy mode or play quick fight mode if they want to feel gratified without learning the mechanics.

The skill ceiling shouldn't be lowered just to please the people that will never be top 100 or something because they didn't take the time to learn the game. There are plenty of people that are absolutely terrible and still can at least get to 1300-1500 in ranked, this is as far as you should expect to get as a casual as many have said in this thread.


The first few seasons featured people who had absolutely no idea how to grapple in the top 10 on ranked because of huge oversights and design flaws in the balancing of this game. Duckercuts and bobblehead season easily had one of the lowest skill floors we have seen and that was pretty clearly the worst iteration of this game so far. I personally feel like more depth adds more potential to a game, and this usually results in skill disparities which I don't think is wrong. It's just like any other game in that regard.