CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

[EricFreakingBerry]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Here's another way of thinking about it....

FPS shooters, fighting games, platform games, - these all have limited things you can do with a game generally and the people who turn them on all play in roughly the same way. The customization is fairly narrow, the types of gamers all expect "similar" types of satisfaction when it comes to these genres.

Sports/RPG's - these games have WAY different consumers. In an RPG I can choose to play as a certain race and a certain class, and use skills a certain way for the entire game. Many give me the option to make things easier or harder, and allow me to customize my character and experience with at least a glossy attempt at depth. They may have side missions that I do more than I do the main quest.

This becomes the same with sports, for me. I don't want EA to ever open their mouths and tell me "well, the majority doesn't want it" so it's not in. There IS no majority, because there are a million combinations of play style in sports games. There are young kids who play it, there are 20 year olds who play it, there are mid 30 year olds like myself that have been here since the Sega Genesis playing this stuff because we LOVE FOOTBALL. But we all like different teams, players, aspects of the sport, aspects of playing sports games. It should not ever matter what a "majority" wants in a sports title because sports games are some of the most divisive, opinionated, and most difficult types of games to narrow down into one mold.

NBA2K has given us sandbox MyLeague where I can tweak trade logic and various parameters. When I load up the league I can edit anyone in the NBA. Every offseason I can edit every single draft class. This keeps me playing, because it's balanced and FUN. Madden does NOT give me a sandbox. They give me a 20 oz. bottle of sand and tell me to choke it down every year. It's basically a "screw you" when it comes to how I want to play. So to restrict gamers because a "bunch of people play MUT/Online and don't care about CPU vs. CPU or the host of other feature failures EA has made these past few years" is a freaking travesty.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

The people you are referring to are Tibouron people, we always hear about the telemetry #'s they use to determine what stays and what is cut out.

JP, maybe if the sliders worked great out of the box without doing an inordinate amount of work for several months, maybe one wouldn't need cpu vs cpu.

I would tell the developers that the telemetry you are discovering because of the current state of sliders not giving a realistic NFL experience, CPU vs CPU would be highly recommended.

Telemetry data is fine but of somewhat limited use. It measures what and how people use what you have already implemented. But if you implement good ideas badly, people will avoid those things. Or, if you create everything with the ADHD gamer in mind, and find that the ADHD game items are the most popular, then you are creating a self-fulfilling, self-defining feedback loop.

You have to supplement your analysis to include, not just the quantitative data gathering available through telemetry, but also qualitative data gathering from motivated customers like this community. You also have to look at what other sports games are doing well, not because you have to be a "me too" copycat game, but because you recognize your own team, like any team, can get into a groupthink bubble and good ideas can be adapted from elsewhere.

So when we hear all this EA feedback of "yeah but the telemetry," that just tells me the bean counters and marketing department types are calling all the design shots when they don't understand design.

If there's anyone at EA/Tiburon on the design side with sense and vision, I expect this video captures what their lives are like:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BKorP55Aqvg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[roadman]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Telemetry data is fine but of somewhat limited use. It measures what and how people use what you have already implemented. But if you implement good ideas badly, people will avoid those things. Or, if you create everything with the ADHD gamer in mind, and find that the ADHD game items are the most popular, then you are creating a self-fulfilling, self-defining feedback loop.

You have to supplement your analysis to include, not just the quantitative data gathering available through telemetry, but also qualitative data gathering from motivated customers like this community. You also have to look at what other sports games are doing well, not because you have to be a "me too" copycat game, but because you recognize your own team, like any team, can get into a groupthink bubble and good ideas can be adapted from elsewhere.

So when we hear all this EA feedback of "yeah but the telemetry," that just tells me the bean counters and marketing department types are calling all the design shots when they don't understand design.

If there's anyone at EA/Tiburon on the design side with sense and vision, I expect this video captures what their lives are like:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BKorP55Aqvg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

I don't disagree, but I really feel that EA feels the GCers are representing the community. There is a GCer from every walk of life, CFM, tourney, and gameplay.

OS has provided insight to the developers over the past decade or more and has little to show for it. Ian and company ran a copy of the other game in the office continuously.

It's quite clear how they go about making the game.

[Playmakers]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

EA's broken gameplay doing the single player experience over the past few years is what drove me to enjoying CPU vs CPU playing experience much better.

It's hard for me to pick up Madden or NCAA Football and play vs the CPU now days because out of the box gameplay is horrible and you generally don't know what the sliders do anymore to customize the game yourself.

I used to live and die in the slider forums customizing gameplay for single player experience but it seems like every since Madden 12/NCAA 11 EA has released games with broken sliders limiting the IMPACT of their overall effect on Human vs CPU gameplay.

So now I refuse to spend months trying to fix something that is completely broken (Sliders) at the end of the day....

This is where CPU vs CPU gameplay shines much better than the single player experience IMO.

Other than slight tweaks to gameplay sliders you actually start to see players, teams and their ratings play out much better on the field in this mode.

I mean seriously they spend all year editing ratings in Madden throughout the season and then they rate the incoming rookies after the draft and all that time spent on ratings is worthless because if you can't get it to show up on the field doing the actual gameplay then what purpose does it serve?

At the end of the day if your a die hard SIM fan I believe the best SIM experience out of EA Football games is rendered in CPU vs CPU mode and this is coming from a guy who has played Madden since 1990 and NCAA Football since 1995 in the single player mode only.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

I don't disagree, but I really feel that EA feels the GCers are representing the community. There is a GCer from every walk of life, CFM, tourney, and gameplay.

OS has provided insight to the developers over the past decade or more and has little to show for it. Ian and company ran a copy of the other game in the office continuously.

It's quite clear how they go about making the game.

Yeah, the GCers are out there, but the sense I get is they've become a domesticated veal pen, for the most part. In return for access and the possibility of having their input maybe kinda sorta piped up the chain, their real function is to be tongue tied by NDA's and soft or mute on public criticism in order to sustain inside access.

I don't take the GCers seriously. The only GCer's whose input seems to matter marginally are the online H2H guys.

[Bolieve]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Yeah, the GCers are out there, but the sense I get is they've become a domesticated veal pen, for the most part. In return for access and the possibility of having their input maybe kinda sorta piped up the chain, their real function is to be tongue tied by NDA's and soft or mute on public criticism in order to sustain inside access.

I don't take the GCers seriously. The only GCer's whose input seems to matter marginally are the online H2H guys.

No Game Changer has ever represented me. I feel that they represent mostly their own perception. I remember reading on Twitter their mockery because someone brought up CPU vs CPU in Connected Careers.

What about this forum? EA checks it out, right? Should I go back and show the year after year complaints on no CPU vs CPU in CFM?

[roadman]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

No Game Changer has ever represented me. I feel that they represent mostly their own perception. I remember reading on Twitter their mockery because someone brought up CPU vs CPU in Connected Careers.

What about this forum? EA checks it out, right? Should I go back and show the year after year complaints on no CPU vs CPU in CFM?

Depends on what you mean by checking this forum out. They may scan it, not sure how often, though.

I don't think GCers go out looking for membership, they have different websites, a radio show, twitter, etc.... As I mentioned before, there are GCers representing different areas of the game plus the GCer website.

GCers usually don't post here.

Now, here is an example of EA using it's telemetry in another game, the upcoming golf game.

That being said, most users don't want to play 4 full rounds (our telemetry showed that about 75% of users would play 1 round tournaments in prior career modes, 22% would play 4 rounds, and the other 3% would select 2 or 3 rounds). Quick Rounds still allows those users to progress through tournaments as fast as they used to with the 1 round setting(well, much faster with no hole to hole loads).

[Bolieve]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Depends on what you mean by checking this forum out. They may scan it, not sure how often, though.

I don't think GCers go out looking for membership, they have different websites, a radio show, twitter, etc.... As I mentioned before, there are GCers representing different areas of the game plus the GCer website.

GCers usually don't post here.

Now, here is an example of EA using it's telemetry in another game, the upcoming golf game.

That being said, most users don't want to play 4 full rounds (our telemetry showed that about 75% of users would play 1 round tournaments in prior career modes, 22% would play 4 rounds, and the other 3% would select 2 or 3 rounds). Quick Rounds still allows those users to progress through tournaments as fast as they used to with the 1 round setting(well, much faster with no hole to hole loads).

To me, that's incredibly faulty. Just my opinion.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Depends on what you mean by checking this forum out. They may scan it, not sure how often, though.

I don't think GCers go out looking for membership, they have different websites, a radio show, twitter, etc.... As I mentioned before, there are GCers representing different areas of the game plus the GCer website.

GCers usually don't post here.

Now, here is an example of EA using it's telemetry in another game, the upcoming golf game.

That being said, most users don't want to play 4 full rounds (our telemetry showed that about 75% of users would play 1 round tournaments in prior career modes, 22% would play 4 rounds, and the other 3% would select 2 or 3 rounds). Quick Rounds still allows those users to progress through tournaments as fast as they used to with the 1 round setting(well, much faster with no hole to hole loads).

The key is they are publishers, looking for eyeballs and page views to help monetize their sites.

Having "inside access" to the game generates revenue for them, even if they are not paid. Look at Shop. Those posts he is allowed to write about his early hands on with the game are quite possibly his best traffic generators for the year. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he has to have his content reviewed and approved in advance by EA (thus the delays).

Think guys like that are going to criticize the game or be candid in public about ways the game falls short?

Think again.

[roadman]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

The key is they are publishers, looking for eyeballs and page views to help monetize their sites.

Having "inside access" to the game generates revenue for them, even if they are not paid. Look at Shop. Those posts he is allowed to write about his early hands on with the game are quite possibly his best traffic generators for the year. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he has to have his content reviewed and approved in advance by EA (thus the delays).

Think guys like that are going to criticize the game or be candid in public about ways the game falls short?

Think again.

I really don't think I mentioned anything about the CGers criticizing or praising the game.(I agree because it's mentioned each year)

In fact, my main part of that post was for the telemetry purposes from another EA game. Something we know they look hard at the numbers, right way or not.

[PatsSB2015]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Back to the point, it's obvious that CPU vs. CPU in CFM is an option that people want back and it's being blatantly ignored.

[jpdavis82]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Back to the point, it's obvious that CPU vs. CPU in CFM is an option that people want back and it's being blatantly ignored.

I never really understood the reasoning for it until this week and why it's as important as it is. It may not make a difference, I'm only one person, but I will be pushing for this for you guys in any way I can.

[SECElit3]

CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

Yeah, the GCers are out there, but the sense I get is they've become a domesticated veal pen, for the most part. In return for access and the possibility of having their input maybe kinda sorta piped up the chain, their real function is to be tongue tied by NDA's and soft or mute on public criticism in order to sustain inside access.

I don't take the GCers seriously. The only GCer's whose input seems to matter marginally are the online H2H guys.

Off topic, but I agree... The Game Changer program, in the beginning, was a great idea. Now, most of these GCs are in it for their own personal wants and desires.

I had a GC, just the other day me on a popular radio show, tell me this was not a popular feature and no one would use it. He went on to say how more popular features were being implemented.

Right, so I guess we've been requesting the XP and goal system implemented into CFM this year?

No sir, it's clear these guys aren't working on behalf of the community.

They work for their own agendas... EA Kool-Aid must be delicious



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[TexasFan2005]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

From what I've gathered in this thread, EA have not included CPU vs CPU in offline CFM simply because it's not what the majority of gamers want, thus not making it a priority. Assuming that the term priority suggests taking the effort to include a controller/team select option prior to a CFM game, then what are we to expect from the EA Madden team on the more critical aspects of the game? I mean, wouldn't it just be easier to please everyone on such a basic element instead of alienating the alleged minority time and again?

I understand that the EA Madden team has been making improvements to a suffering game resulting from a decade's worth of shortcomings, but I think that if they truly want to make progress with this franchise in the most efficient way they'll have to change their philosophy.

They should prioritize giving the gamer more options, not less. They should start including different types of gamers, not alienating them. If they start with the basics and start pleasing more and more people, even if they are in small increments, then we won't be back to square one each and every year.

[PatsSB2015]

Re: CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

I never really understood the reasoning for it until this week and why it's as important as it is. It may not make a difference, I'm only one person, but I will be pushing for this for you guys in any way I can.

I appreciate any effort in trying, JP.