As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

[Grey_Osprey]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

When they figure out how to monetize franchise, you'll see all the features and then some that were in older games on less powerful systems. And I bet you won't hear one word about "code", dev cycle, resources, Longshots, or NBA Live.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

A couple of points.

1) I really don't know what "looking into it" means at this point. Its a recurring long standing issue. They advertised that they fixed legacy issues. How is this still a problem?

2) Maybe its just really hard to program AI for a football game. So much to consider, seemingly way more than other spots. Maybe EA's whole approach is wrong. Don't code AI to make decisions, track the decisions human players make and have AI mirror it. Is that possible?

Yeah, I mean like jfsolo said, they looked into it last year when it was brought up and didn't think it was an issue worthy of a fix and based on what we've seen it wasn't a priority in M18's development either. So they can look into it all they want but if they come to the same conclusion that it's not even a problem then there's really nothing we can do.

I have no doubt it's a tough thing to replicate, my only thing is that they've done so many of the issues we have now correctly over the years but for whatever reason haven't been able to put them together. There was a time where AI QB's moved in the pocket and scrambling QB's were threats you had to account for. There was a time where AI QB's would throw plenty of harmless incompletions. We're only I think two, now three, Madden's removed from them touting "True-to-Life QB AI" or whatever it was. Hopefully they can do something for 18 but at this point I'd rather just see them go for more of a long term fix than just a band aid.

[Smallville102001]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Back to actual topic. Does it look bad when the CPU AI stands like a statue and takes a sack after a long period of time. Yes. Does it look even worse when they scramble out have either the end zone or 30 plus yards ahead of them and they throw it across the field of play. Yes.

I havent watched all the videos but I would actually like to see statistics on all the videos shown so far and how many had
1. a sack that looked real, time wise.
2. What % of pass attempts actually end up in the stand around and take a sack sequence.

If the stand around sack only happens 1 or 2 times a game I could probably live with it...beats the automatic throw away.

But if they are using similar code from the past 30 years. Wonder if they turned off the take off run trait (or whatever it may be called in programming terms) and maybe they can make it work again.

I really think doing one thing for the CFM offline crowd in the first patch or tuner update would really go along way in the mind of that crowd.

I really don't see the CPU taking sacks they shouldn't take that was a 2015 issue and that was the last time that was a issue. The issue is that they don't step up in the pocket to not get sacked in stead they just sit in the pocket and throw the ball away and the 2nd issue the one I think is bigger is like you said there are times were there is like 30 yards ahead with no one around and instead of trying to run and getting 5,10,15 yards or what ever they will just try to make a bad pass across there body that ends up resulting in a INT or a incomplete pass most of the time instead of gaining some of those yards. Because of that to no matter if you are talking about Brady or Willison you are likely to see a end of game stat of like 0 rushes or maybe 1 rush for 2 yards or something. Were if you are playing a good mobile you should be able to see them get like 30-50 yards running in most games.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I would love if they could fix all the legacy issues....neither of those things will happen.

Also there is no guarantee that rebuilding is the answer. EA has taken off years to rebuild Live and it still is below average.

It would definitely be a risk. I will say that last gen NHL and FIFA in the PS2 days underwent a significant rebuild of their very legacy code bases (and another overhaul for FIFA in 08), and they were huge turning points for each series.

As you said, it doesn't always work out. The NBA series has been in limbo for years now since they tried to rebuild it as a "Elite" in Vancouver, and eventually is got thrown at Tiburon and it's still not where it needs to be to compete with 2k.

I do feel that of all the EA titles though, Madden feels the most like it did on PS2. It feels, and looks in many cases, the same way it has since 2000. It's maybe abstract to describe, but is upgrades feel like segmented add ons rather that a part of an integrated and cohesive gameplay experience. I have no idea if a significant audit and modernization of Madden's code base would lead to much of a different game, but in the cases of NHL last gen, and the FIFA series, it turned those titles turned from really silly and worthless experiences (to me) to ones that absolutely drew me in for years with deep, detailed, and satisfying gameplay.

[extremeskins04]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

When they figure out how to monetize franchise, you'll see all the features and then some that were in older games on less powerful systems. And I bet you won't hear one word about "code", dev cycle, resources, Longshots, or NBA Live.

If EA made CFM exactly like Deuce's thread is, I'd pay over $100+ for it, easily.

[UtahUtes32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I've been playing Madden 15 this week (so I'll be really impressed this Friday), and I played against the redskins. Rg3 took a 5 step drop, and on his last drop step, he took off running up the MIDDLE and picked up 6 yards.

We aren't even talking about being WIDE open like in these videos... And they still aren't running for yards in 18..

[BadAssHskr]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I would love if they could fix all the legacy issues....neither of those things will happen.

Also there is no guarantee that rebuilding is the answer. EA has taken off years to rebuild Live and it still is below average.

I'd be alright, if going into the season, say M19 they then opted to do a rebuild of the entire game, however with the premiss that M19 would be added upon via patch or download, whatever, for a continuous cycle while the rebuild was taking place.

If they could just get it to a good point and then carry us until the following release, i'd be good.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I'd be alright, if going into the season, say M19 they then opted to do a rebuild of the entire game, however with the premiss that M19 would be added upon via patch or download, whatever, for a continuous cycle while the rebuild was taking place.

If they could just get it to a good point and then carry us until the following release, i'd be good.

What do you guys consider a rebuild? A graphical one? Animations? AI? Features?

I think you guys dont realize how expensive that would be even if it was just animations.

What you guys are suggesting is that EA pour millions more into development (Mocap sessions and talent/QA/Employee hours to add the animations to the game) and lose millions either through not selling a NFL game for a few years or selling a roster update.

All for a game that millions of people love the way it is. As someone said earlier, the reason they skipped years with Live is because people stopped buying the game. They had no other choice. That isnt the case here. ****, the people who are most annoyed by these issues cant find the strength to buy the game used.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it's worth adding to this discussion.

I know NCAA 14 QB passing logic was absurdly overpowered and robotic, but look at the running logic and fidelity on this play. It's not a successful escape, but look how both the QB tightly navigates the space logically, and doesn't get warped into any tackling animation.

It's a great example because it isn't a successful play, but it demonstrates QB play that looks credible

Also, stating at 3:29 is another good example of QB's running with good movement fidelity without being op, and without the defense looking static against them.

Again at 5:52 and 8:58 (beautiful one).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IWhj_07WAIc?rel=0&amp;start=72" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it's worth adding to this discussion.

I know NCAA 14 QB passing logic was absurdly overpowered and robotic, but look at the running logic and fidelity on this play. It's not a successful escape, but look how both the QB tightly navigates the space logically, and doesn't get warped into any tackling animation.

It's a great example because it isn't a successful play, but it demonstrates QB play that looks credible

Also, stating at 3:29 is another good example of QB's running with good movement fidelity without being op, and without the defense looking static against them.

Again at 5:52 and 8:58 (beautiful one).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IWhj_07WAIc?rel=0&amp;start=72" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I loved the QB run threat in that game! Those were great examples and the QB was so smooth in his runs. I'd love if the madden QB's and even the RB's for that matter would/could run to daylight like that.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I loved the QB run threat in that game! Those were great examples and the QB was so smooth in his runs. I'd love if the madden QB's and even the RB's for that matter would/could run to daylight like that.

I think that's a huge part of the problem as well as the game feeling dated in general. It seems like it moves and behaves in a less sophisticated way than it has in previous years, and in other earlier titles using the same engine.

One of the biggest things that bothers me is when the ai reverts to a state that resembles earlier versions, and prior improvements like ai pathfinding and properly timing and using special moves apparently revert as well.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The reason devs won't come near a thread like this is because it has delved into the same discussion nearly every other thread has.

The title says we can't accept the current AI quarterback play, and I don't disagree. Yet that has hardly been discussed in this thread.

This.

As I read through the thread I realized I'm completely happy with statistically accurate outcomes. No matter how they look.

I do understand the desire for more player specific realistic outcomes, but I'm left wondering what that really means. As a jet fan I can only speak in detail on afc east tendencies. So in response to the post about Brady being a statue, throwing the ball away early etc. that's kind of accurate. He knows when the play is dead and he goes into the fetal position, throws the ball away, or the 5 seconds of going untouched turns into 10 and he throws a TD. So it seems accurate to me.

If not,

What would we want (that can be categorized and linked statistically to real life outcomes?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Theo_Fleury]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

What do you guys consider a rebuild? A graphical one? Animations? AI? Features?

I think you guys dont realize how expensive that would be even if it was just animations.

A lot of people expected new animations, physics and better AI with the engine-change, and, a realistic franchise mode....when i look at all the M18 gamplay videos it's almost the same like M17...only graphic changed, but AI and gameplay code remains the same........expensive? EA swims in money....but they keep the resources low....thats business....bad business...good for publishers, bad for consumers...

[jmurphy31]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

This.

As I read through the thread I realized I'm completely happy with statistically accurate outcomes. No matter how they look.

I do understand the desire for more player specific realistic outcomes, but I'm left wondering what that really means. As a jet fan I can only speak in detail on afc east tendencies. So in response to the post about Brady being a statue, throwing the ball away early etc. that's kind of accurate. He knows when the play is dead and he goes into the fetal position, throws the ball away, or the 5 seconds of going untouched turns into 10 and he throws a TD. So it seems accurate to me.

If not,

What would we want (that can be categorized and linked statistically to real life outcomes?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not exactly true about Brady. He's actually one of the better moving in pocket qbs in the NFL. He has a knack for stepping up in the pocket and avoiding the rush to make the throw. Also, he will throw the ball into the ground of a wr, to avoid a turnover or sack. He also doesn't do it a ton but if he has the lane he will take off (see that big 1st down run in the Superbowl). He usually tucks into the fetal position when it's a blitz or blown protection.

[Charvalos]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Even if Brady isn't a running threat, he isn't a statue.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nfiik_dNhhs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And I'm not talking about the pocket, the pass rush and other stuff which are non-existent in Madden (or they are but it feels like non-natural).

If EA wanted to have a great gameplay, they could do it easily but they won't do it simply because they only care about to please the MUT players who are the only "community" who brings them back the money.