Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

[MizzouRah]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I'm using run blocking on max (100) and so far it seems to help quite a bit. Not one big run for the CPU on default, but at 100 they actually broke a 68 yard TD on me.

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Just an interesting thing I discovered today.

Sigh. Thanks for the information but this is the last thing I wanted to read. I too did some testing to see if awareness and speed and acceleration have an effect on pulling. From what I saw the problems with the AI are just too big.

I'm beyond disappointed. I might not even play until a patch is out. My fellow league members are thinking of starting next week, and I know I can run all over everyone just like last year sticking to certain run plays, but its just not fun for me. Weight and strength should matter. There shouldn't be a drastic shift in what works in Madden and what doesn't year in and year out. Their own ratings should matter.

[MizzouRah]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Zeke ran 29 times for 97 yards against me (Cowboys vs Lions). It still needs patching, but at least the sliders appear to work.

[TheDominator273]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Just an interesting thing I discovered today.

I went back into practice mode and did another trial of running the same offensive and defensive play over and over again. Although this time, I wasn’t looking at the offense. I was looking more at the defense and how they acted differently from play to play. I started noticing some really interesting trends.

1. Defenders were somehow better/worse vs. certain run blocking type plays.

The first play I ran was a HB Zone. I had a numbers advantage to one side so I figured we had a chance to break open one now and then. However, I kept getting shut down in the backfield by the same DT almost every single play. I went and watched the replays and noticed he was always beating the same guy in a 1 on 1 block. So I looked at their ratings and noticed that the DT was a 91 and my RG blocking him was a 70.

Initially I thought “Okay that could actually be not a bad thing, but a really good thing that a higher rated player was beating a lower rated player.” Maybe happening at too high of a frequency, but if it’s purely the ratings coming into play, that’s more good than bad.

So I flipped the plays to where we were getting the exact same look but to the opposite direction of the field and found that the exact same thing was happening at essentially the exact same rate, despite there being less of a disparity in the ratings. But anyways, I picked a different play.

The next play was a HB dive (which by the way, was blocked differently almost every single snap. Mind blowing). Still getting the exact same one on one matchup. However this time, the 72 Lineman was beating the 91 DT almost every single play. What changed? It’s still a one on one block. It can’t be a scheme thing because Kyle Shanahan runs a Zone Run scheme meaning if anything, it should be flip flopped. Also, Jonathan Cooper is a 72 OVR in both power and zone blocking schemes. So it’s obviously not scheme related. There’s really no explanation here.

2. If a defensive player had a block she’d triggered, it always happened at the EXACT. SAME. TIME after the ball was snapped. It either happened right when the ball was about to be handed off to the RB, or it didn’t happen at all. Now, I don’t mean the RB ran past him and he just disengaged his defender to make the play. I’m saying any time he chucked the blocker across from him away and was now free to make a play, the shed animation was triggered at the exact same moment every single play. This is leading me to believe that outcomes are not ratings related, but rather more of a dice roll as to what happens


. I also created a player with all ratings at zero and placed him at DT. While it did eliminate block sheds, not once was he driven back or pancaked. So essentially, strength and weight ratings are completely irrelevant in the run game.


Just to add more to this, am currently running Guns Double - Inside Zone vs. a Quarter Defense. There is no way to make anyone block the MLB. The LG and C double the nose despite the nose being on the gap opposite of the LG. The LG has a direct path to the MLB which would give an easy big play, but there will not do it no matter who the Mike is ID’ed as.

I think for some reason the LG is being told to chip off to the MLB, but there’s no reason to even touch him because he’s not even in his gap. It’s not advanced blocking, it’s common sense.

Based on the MUT Leaks Twitter account, the only thing that matters in the run game for a defender disengaging a block is the block shed rating. By contrast, for offensive lineman the blocking rating is only 60% of the equation with 22.5% coming coming from strength and the remaining 17.5% weight.

Your comment about dice rolls being responsible for block sheds is partially correct, it is a dice roll, but that dice roll is weighted and that is what ratings are for.

[canes21]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Practice mode will not yield the same results as a CFM game or a Play Now game. It has been the case in both Madden and NCAA for many years. My videos posted in this thread before also do a great job of showing that. In the practice mode I was getting stuffed too much as the Legends vs the Browns. In the actual game I had an easy time running on them nearly every play even when they had the numbers advantage.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Practice mode will not yield the same results as a CFM game or a Play Now game. It has been the case in both Madden and NCAA for many years. My videos posted in this thread before also do a great job of showing that. In the practice mode I was getting stuffed too much as the Legends vs the Browns. In the actual game I had an easy time running on them nearly every play even when they had the numbers advantage.

I don’t believe there is any reason that players would randomly block incorrectly simply because it’s practice mode. Ratings/slider wise, that may be true. But we’ve seen plenty of incorrect assignments in game as well. The block shed thing seems to be true in game as well, where it’s a shed at handoff or not at all, but I’m going to test that further.

Also, the fact that someone with 0 strength can withstand being blocked by two linemen is just ridiculous. Comical almost.

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Based on the MUT Leaks Twitter account, the only thing that matters in the run game for a defender disengaging a block is the block shed rating. By contrast, for offensive lineman the blocking rating is only 60% of the equation with 22.5% coming coming from strength and the remaining 17.5% weight.

Your comment about dice rolls being responsible for block sheds is partially correct, it is a dice roll, but that dice roll is weighted and that is what ratings are for.

So strength and weight do matter for blocking? Where is this information?

[TheDominator273]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

So strength and weight do matter for blocking? Where is this information?

https://twitter.com/MUT_Leaks19/stat...829376513?s=19

https://twitter.com/MUT_Leaks19/status/1030119381982949376?s=19

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

https://twitter.com/MUT_Leaks19/stat...829376513?s=19

https://twitter.com/MUT_Leaks19/stat...982949376?s=19

Appreciate it bro.

[canes21]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I don’t believe there is any reason that players would randomly block incorrectly simply because it’s practice mode. Ratings/slider wise, that may be true. But we’ve seen plenty of incorrect assignments in game as well. The block shed thing seems to be true in game as well, where it’s a shed at handoff or not at all, but I’m going to test that further.

Also, the fact that someone with 0 strength can withstand being blocked by two linemen is just ridiculous. Comical almost.

There isn't a good reason as to why the game would play so differently from practice to play now or cfm, but it does. I'm just saying, analyzing things in practice has never been the best way to get a good feel for the game. It isn't still. I used to try and make my sliders in practice mode, all it led to was wasted time. I'm not trying to tell you that the blocking in this game isn't messed up, I am just saying that practice mode may offer you the only chance to see controlled scenarios, but it will not offer the same gameplay as other modes so it's a wash.


That is why I referenced my videos posted before. In practice mode my team was blocking strange, too many Browns players were making the Legends look bad. In the actual game they hardly ever touched Sanders until he was beyond the LOS. The blocking was way less wonky and that went for their assignments as well.

[RogueHominid]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

FWIW, on AM, I feel like I have the run game dialed in. Here's the important stuff, developed in conjunction with Ren and Awffltony:

HUM RBK 80
HUM FUM 55
HUM TAK 40

CPU RBK 70
CPU FUM 55
CPU TAK 40

Offsides 40
O Holding 55
Facemask 40

These settings are getting me 7-10 TFL per game, per side, on average, and YPC for both sides from the low 3s to the high 4s (sometimes beyond), depending on matchups.

Coupled with an active audible strategy where I almost always refuse to run into a bad look, these settings are giving me a run game I don't have to think twice about or overanalyze. I just finished a game vs. MIN as SF in which I was in the mid-3s vs. a very good D playing at home, but I've also had McKinnon in the high 4s to low 5s in games. And Cook was in the low- to mid-3s vs. me but broke off a nice, long run and finished the game over 125.

I offer this in the event that it might help folks who are super frustrated. I feel like blocking animations and play outcomes are great with these settings. I sure as heck knew who Linval Joseph was every play, but I had my fair share of success against their ends.

[stinkubus]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Just an interesting thing I discovered today.

Unless M19 is the first version of the game you've ever played I don't know why any of this would surprise you.

Certain runs have always played better than others. Tosses and stretches were the best runs in M18 and they are the best again in M19. Draws remain very good against light boxes, and inside zones and 01 Traps can work just fine against the right fronts but almost everything else in the game is trash and you're just wasting a down if you pick it.

Runs were the backside guard pulls have been poor to mediocre for as long as I can remember. You can sometimes get decent results with a strong power from pistol sets and some random counters here and there but for the most part they are garbage because users and the CPU alike will kill you right through the vacated gap. Most Iso plays from two back sets are useless as the FB almost never blocks correctly.

Sliders cannot fix broken plays so you can either resign yourself to running what's effective or just be unhappy with the game. The choice is yours.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Unless M19 is the first version of the game you've ever played I don't know why any of this would surprise you.



Certain runs have always played better than others. Tosses and stretches were the best runs in M18 and they are the best again in M19. Draws remain very good against light boxes, and inside zones and 01 Traps can work just fine against the right fronts but almost everything else in the game is trash and you're just wasting a down if you pick it.



Runs were the backside guard pulls have been poor to mediocre for as long as I can remember. You can sometimes get decent results with a strong power from pistol sets and some random counters here and there but for the most part they are garbage because users and the CPU alike will kill you right through the vacated gap. Most Iso plays from two back sets are useless as the FB almost never blocks correctly.



Sliders cannot fix broken plays so you can either resign yourself to running what's effective or just be unhappy with the game. The choice is yours.

It wasn’t about what was better or worse. It was the fact that the same 1 on 1 matchup was more effective in one play (that wasn’t a scheme fit) than another (that was). I know that some plays just don’t work as good as others due to poor assignments, but i didn’t expect to get the same matchup with different results like that.

[JayCutlersCig]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

If one doesn’t understand how each blocking scheme should work against a type of front, I can understand how they may come away feeling like the run blocking is pretty good. I’m not in that camp unfortunately.

Outside Zone, Inside Zone, Gap Blocking, and Man Blocking all have rules at the foundation of their philosophy - without it defense would scream in every play and blow up the play. The basic rules should work as they do in real-life. What happens much of the time in my experience with the game is that the initial blocking assignment is correct(sometimes not), but there is a certain point in which assignment switches to proximity in this game. And then it just goes hay wire. I see it with pulling guards all the time. Their assignment may fall on the EMOL (End Man on Line), but get sucked into blocking a LB that has come free. I don’t need them blocking that guy - he has an assignment. If that guy gets free that’s in the RB to read the front and bend it in the right gap or break a tackle.

As a former HS fullback, I feel you. The blocking in M18 looked and felt stupid. I’d see a tackle completely miss the RE and go block a ROLB, leaving the end open room to mess someone up.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Unless M19 is the first version of the game you've ever played I don't know why any of this would surprise you.



Certain runs have always played better than others. Tosses and stretches were the best runs in M18 and they are the best again in M19. Draws remain very good against light boxes, and inside zones and 01 Traps can work just fine against the right fronts but almost everything else in the game is trash and you're just wasting a down if you pick it.



Runs were the backside guard pulls have been poor to mediocre for as long as I can remember. You can sometimes get decent results with a strong power from pistol sets and some random counters here and there but for the most part they are garbage because users and the CPU alike will kill you right through the vacated gap. Most Iso plays from two back sets are useless as the FB almost never blocks correctly.



Sliders cannot fix broken plays so you can either resign yourself to running what's effective or just be unhappy with the game. The choice is yours.

I agree with you. All run plays work against the right defensive front. However since cpu play calling is eternally broken and neglected the only way to evidence that all run plays work is to play H2H or in a cfm with users. Absent that you’ll never see a front or run commit to a side that will make a sweep, stretch or other play work.


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