Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

[GameBreaker35]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Did any one watch the games last night? 3 if the 6 teams averaged 2.7 yds per carry! Once again the game is gonna do it best to come out and be as close to real stats as possible! No matter how they get there! Yes there is problems, and yes that’s the way the game is playing right now. The stats to a lot of people mean more than the running back stopping when the get the hand off, or block this person or blocking that person. they don’t try to pick at one little thing and say the game is unplayable! I agree with some of the thing people are bring up. Overall stats to me and a lot of people are more important! It does seem like people are playing to different games!

The game is playable yes, but the strategic element of the run game where assignments are carried out is the issue. You can have the numbers come out right AND the blocking assignments work too. Happens all the time in real games; sometimes guys just get beat to the point or just want it more.

[cwilson250733]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

The game is playable yes, but the strategic element of the run game where assignments are carried out is the issue. You can have the numbers come out right AND the blocking assignments work too. Happens all the time in real games; sometimes guys just get beat to the point or just want it more.

I’m with you! I’m not having any issues! I’m now 2-6 in my jets season and I get realistic stats for both me and cpu running the ball! I don’t care about blocking or anything like that! I just want my stats real and other people what the guard to pick up the double team every time when they run the same play in practice mode 25 times in a row!

[xCoachDx]

Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

But why would you go to practice mode and run the same play 25 time in a row and want the same or different result? That’s just someone looking to complain about something! The AI is going to adjust to what you are doing so it no successful 25 times in a row! Even if you pick the same defensive play they are gonna react different! If you was on a real practice Field and you knew the offense was gonna run the same play and your coach told you to run the same defensive play your not gonna react he same every play!

Oh my goodness the offense would never do anything different 🤦🏼*♂️ you know what, I’m not even going to get into a discussion with you over this lol. You enjoy the game how you want. I’ll continue to notice how unrealistic blocking is implemented and hope to help out with change.

[ODogg]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Schematically speaking, each blocker should be attempting to block the same player each time. I’m not saying whether or not the block should be successful, but my LG shouldn’t block a LB one play, then when the exact same play is called against the exact same defense, go block someone else. That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, I mean I think we fundamentally agree but from reading your comment it seemed to me that in my head you were saying that they would block everything exactly the same and that is absolutely never going to happen in any real life NFL game, scrimmage or practice so I wouldn't want it to happen in a video game either!

I think that overall the AI should mean that same play offense versus same play defense should run about the same overall but not exactly the same. Because if we want AI that simulates humans people don't always think 100% perfect and sometimes make some small errors or mistakes, maybe run a little left when they should be straight, etc.

[canes21]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Oh my goodness the offense would never do anything different 🤦🏼*♂️ you know what, I’m not even going to get into a discussion with you over this lol. You enjoy the game how you want. I’ll continue to notice how unrealistic blocking is implemented and hope to help out with change.

Have you watched any of my footage and seen any differences in gameplay? Through my playtime it seemed practice is once again playing differently than the actual games and I think my video vs the Browns shows that off.

[xCoachDx]

Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Yeah, I mean I think we fundamentally agree but from reading your comment it seemed to me that in my head you were saying that they would block everything exactly the same and that isn't going to happen in any NFL game or practice so I wouldn't want it to happen in a video game either.



I think that overall the AI should mean that same play offense versus same play defense should run about the same sure but not exactly the same.

Imagine you are an offensive linemen looking at your playbook.

You are looking at the play “Pro Left Strong 23 Lead” vs. a 4-3 Over Defense.

Every single time this play is called and you have this defensive front across from you, you will block how it tells you to block in the playbook.

In Madden 19, linemen block differently each snap. Which is what was proven in my practice session. Sometimes he would block this person, sometimes he would block that person, despite facing the exact same look and exact same defensive call. Which really doesn’t make any sense. It’s not because the “defense knew what play was coming so they were ready for it” lol. The start of the play was always exactly the same, yet the linemen would block differently for no explicable reason. Often, their alternate decision making resulted in an incorrect scheme, which left someone unblocked.


This is really the only point that I have tried to make in this thread. I haven’t talked much about the run mechanics or controls or anything like that. I’ve just been hoping that this was some sort of unintentional thing and can be fixed.

[cwilson250733]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Oh my goodness the offense would never do anything different 🤦🏼*♂️ you know what, I’m not even going to get into a discussion with you over this lol. You enjoy the game how you want. I’ll continue to notice how unrealistic blocking is implemented and hope to help out with change.

Not getting in to it with you either! You are worried about how a play is blocked and most people don’t care! We have different opinions on what we want in a game, and yours seems to be unrealistic block that not everyone is seeing! So I’m sorry about your unrealistic blocking and I hope you work it out.

[Shosum13]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I've been having pretty good success running the ball between the tackles so far. I just haven't been able to find anything to the outside, I haven't even been able to find a hole to cut an outside run up field. I also think that backside blocks get shed too quickly in this game making it impossible to find a cutback lane if blocking breaks down to the side the run is going.

Last night I was able to break free for a 65 yard run up the middle with Legarrette Blount in my Lions CFM. The hole opened up nicely and I got to the next level where I trucked the first safety then shed the tackle attempt of the other safety, then Blount's slow a** got caught from behind by a CB at the 15.

One issue I've noticed that I don't know if anyone else is seeing is with plays that have a lead blocker. I've noticed that if my FB doesn't have someone to block coming through the hole then they just run around aimlessly rather than getting to the net level to lay a block on someone in the secondary. There have been a few times where I could of broken off a longer run only to be stopped after a few yards by the safety because my lead blocker didn't even attempt to get to the next level. Overall I'm liking how this game is playing though with RPM.

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Yeah as I said in my post I like the idea of slower guards with lower awareness having a tougher time getting to their blocks. I disagree that the end result, the stats are whats important and that how I get there in terms of the blocking isn't as important.

Pulling is a major part of running the football, Madden already doesn't have enough of it as is. I'd love to be able to simulate what Greg Roman does with his scheme, to have a TE and a LG pull from the backside.

I'd even make the point that Alex Collins isn't even rated well enough to produce realistic numbers without creative play calling and good user vision and stick skills.

Back to my point though, I was wondering if it was just me or if there was anything I could do to help the OL make better decisions. Looks like it will just need a patch.

I also disagree with the idea that most people don't care. Plenty of people are upset with how blocking is right now and some of that is because pulling is off, even if casuals can't fully explain or break down whats going on, they know Power isn't what it used to be last Madden.

[Ragnar53]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I wonder if going in an editing the awareness and acceleration attributes by 10 points each on the offensive linemen would cause a difference into how often blocking assignments are performed correctly.


Then, on the flip side, increase the defensive linemen strength by about 10 to simulate the offensive line losing at the point of attack. I want to see that happen WAY MORE OFTEN than I see instant blocksheds.

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I wonder if going in an editing the awareness and acceleration attributes by 10 points each on the offensive linemen would cause a difference into how often blocking assignments are performed correctly.


Then, on the flip side, increase the defensive linemen strength by about 10 to simulate the offensive line losing at the point of attack. I want to see that happen WAY MORE OFTEN than I see instant blocksheds.

I did a quick test after trading for Kristjan Sokoli, who I hope to trade for in a 32 man CFM. He moved better, got to the area quicker, but still had problems identifying who to block. Next chance I get I'll boost awareness to see if it makes a difference. I think speed and accel make a difference for pulling more than it used to.

Does strength really matter though? Is it confirmed what it does this Madden?

[Ragnar53]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I did a quick test after trading for Kristjan Sokoli, who I hope to trade for in a 32 man CFM. He moved better, got to the area quicker, but still had problems identifying who to block. Next chance I get I'll boost awareness to see if it makes a difference. I think speed and accel make a difference for pulling more than it used to.

Does strength really matter though? Is it confirmed what it does this Madden?

It matters way more for reach tackling/sacking the QB.


I've only ever seen the reach tackle animation when a defensive lineman is pushing the offensive lineman into the QB and reaching out an arm to drag him to the ground for a sack.
I saw it most often with JJ Watt.

But the o line definitely gives ground when their strength is lower than the d lineman.

[manEATgod]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

It matters way more for reach tackling/sacking the QB.


I've only ever seen the reach tackle animation when a defensive lineman is pushing the offensive lineman into the QB and reaching out an arm to drag him to the ground for a sack.
I saw it most often with JJ Watt.

But the o line definitely gives ground when their strength is lower than the d lineman.

Thanks a lot for responding. I thought the OL gave ground as well when faced with stronger opponents, I haven't done any real tests though and the guys in my league swear strength does nothing for several Maddens now.

[xCoachDx]

Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

Just an interesting thing I discovered today.

I went back into practice mode and did another trial of running the same offensive and defensive play over and over again. Although this time, I wasn’t looking at the offense. I was looking more at the defense and how they acted differently from play to play. I started noticing some really interesting trends.

1. Defenders were somehow better/worse vs. certain run blocking type plays.

The first play I ran was a HB Zone. I had a numbers advantage to one side so I figured we had a chance to break open one now and then. However, I kept getting shut down in the backfield by the same DT almost every single play. I went and watched the replays and noticed he was always beating the same guy in a 1 on 1 block. So I looked at their ratings and noticed that the DT was a 91 and my RG blocking him was a 70.

Initially I thought “Okay that could actually be not a bad thing, but a really good thing that a higher rated player was beating a lower rated player.” Maybe happening at too high of a frequency, but if it’s purely the ratings coming into play, that’s more good than bad.

So I flipped the plays to where we were getting the exact same look but to the opposite direction of the field and found that the exact same thing was happening at essentially the exact same rate, despite there being less of a disparity in the ratings. But anyways, I picked a different play.

The next play was a HB dive (which by the way, was blocked differently almost every single snap. Mind blowing). Still getting the exact same one on one matchup. However this time, the 72 Lineman was beating the 91 DT almost every single play. What changed? It’s still a one on one block. It can’t be a scheme thing because Kyle Shanahan runs a Zone Run scheme meaning if anything, it should be flip flopped. Also, Jonathan Cooper is a 72 OVR in both power and zone blocking schemes. So it’s obviously not scheme related. There’s really no explanation here.

2. If a defensive player had a block she’d triggered, it always happened at the EXACT. SAME. TIME after the ball was snapped. It either happened right when the ball was about to be handed off to the RB, or it didn’t happen at all. Now, I don’t mean the RB ran past him and he just disengaged his defender to make the play. I’m saying any time he chucked the blocker across from him away and was now free to make a play, the shed animation was triggered at the exact same moment every single play. This is leading me to believe that outcomes are not ratings related, but rather more of a dice roll as to what happens


. I also created a player with all ratings at zero and placed him at DT. While it did eliminate block sheds, not once was he driven back or pancaked. So essentially, strength and weight ratings are completely irrelevant in the run game.


Just to add more to this, am currently running Guns Double - Inside Zone vs. a Quarter Defense. There is no way to make anyone block the MLB. The LG and C double the nose despite the nose being on the gap opposite of the LG. The LG has a direct path to the MLB which would give an easy big play, but there will not do it no matter who the Mike is ID’ed as.

I think for some reason the LG is being told to chip off to the MLB, but there’s no reason to even touch him because he’s not even in his gap. It’s not advanced blocking, it’s common sense.

[metallidevils]

Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

I am playing exhibition games using the LEGENDS team (with Barry Sanders and presumably the best OL of all time), and half the time I get hit in the backfield. This is on Pro difficulty. Are there any slider sets that fix this?