NFL Off Topic

[slickdtc]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Reid got 12 years including 6 after his only SB appearance.

It’s been 12 years since Tomlin’s last SB win(10 since his last appearance) and it’s been 7 years since Carroll’s last SB win.

Is a 5 year grace period really crazy after a SB win? Or do you think it’s time for the other 2 coaches I mentioned to be let go?

Tomlin can’t be compared here. He’s never had a losing season with PIT. Same goes for Carroll with SEA.

Andy Reid had a bad year following the Super Bowl (losing TO to drama), then didn’t have another losing season until his final year where he went 4-12 and got the axe. He lasted 8 seasons after the SB loss btw.

Both guys were given some grace period as neither made the playoffs the year after their SB win/appearance, something Pederson has done so he gets credit there. I agree you get a little extra leash after a monumental championship, I just disagree on how long that period lasts and it has to take in to consideration the context of the success or disappointment. The Eagles are trending backwards after 3 years instead of right back in the mix, which Reid and Tomlin both did after just one down year. The nature of the Eagles 2 playoff appearances after the SB left a lot to be desired, so you’ve got two middling years followed by a dramatic ****show of a 3rd year. They’re cutting their losses maybe a year early instead of a year late and they probably would be best served cutting even more of them.

Pederson wanted to stay the course for a team that hasn’t been that good for 3 years. That doesn’t make sense, and Lurie was right to push back on that. That doesn’t make him a meddling owner, that makes him smart. Lurie has not meddled except when he needed to like getting Chip Kelly the hell out with a game remaining and if the HC doesn’t share the vision for the team beyond some minor differences, he’s got to go. Can’t hide behind the trophy forever.

Keeping Wentz could work, but it only will if things go perfectly. After what I just saw, I don’t expect that to happen. I keep saying it, but they’re doing this half in half out stuff and the chances of it working out positively just seem so low.

[slickdtc]

NFL Off Topic

I like Duce Staley, but Eric Bieniemy is a better, more experienced version of him. Duce could be over his head with the state of the Eagles. I trust Bieniemy, and it’s a direct pipeline for Duce if he is able to stick around. He’s going to get his shot.

I feel like this is a team that needs an experienced head coach, not a hot shot young coordinator. Bieniemy fits because he’s been around so long, but this team needs someone like Marvin Lewis. I just feel like he’s the steady hand they need. Might not be exciting but I think it rights the ship with a chance to be pretty good after his tenure in Cincy. He deserves another shot and to get that playoff monkey off his back. Way too much blame for their failures (thanks Kimo, Vontaze, and Pac-Man) and not nearly enough credit for turning the Bengals in to an NFL franchise. That was monumental.

[illwill10]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Meddling was a bad choice for Lurie. Lurie was right to push back on the idea of promoting within to fix offense. The offense has been bad since after the Superbowl year. I could see a situation where they wanted him to hire an outside OC and have them call plays and Doug didn't want that. While yes, they should have Jefferson, Reagor can still be a good pro. It's like Pederson didn't know how to use him. They need to use him like SF uses Samuel and Ayuik. His offense lacked any creativity and reluctant to run the ball even though that was the big reason they won that year.

[illwill10]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I like Duce Staley, but Eric Bieniemy is a better, more experienced version of him. Duce could be over his head with the state of the Eagles. I trust Bieniemy, and it’s a direct pipeline for Duce if he is able to stick around. He’s going to get his shot.

I feel like this is a team that needs an experienced head coach, not a hot shot young coordinator. Bieniemy fits because he’s been around so long, but this team needs someone like Marvin Lewis. I just feel like he’s the steady hand they need. Might not be exciting but I think it rights the ship with a chance to be pretty good after his tenure in Cincy. He deserves another shot and to get that playoff monkey off his back. Way too much blame for their failures (thanks Kimo, Vontaze, and Pac-Man) and not nearly enough credit for turning the Bengals in to an NFL franchise. That was monumental.

I like Duce, but he isn't going to get a shot until he becomes a playcalller. Like Lewis, but he might be in a situation that he might need to "rehab" his image by being a DC for a year or 2.

I like Eric Bieniemy. I would also like Salah. I don't think any of the "top" candidates would be interested in Philly.

"The #Texans have officially requested an interview with #Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy, source said. Already a busy candidate, Bieniemy adds another to his list."

I see that as a way to calm down Deshaun

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Tomlin can’t be compared here. He’s never had a losing season with PIT. Same goes for Carroll with SEA.

Andy Reid had a bad year following the Super Bowl (losing TO to drama), then didn’t have another losing season until his final year where he went 4-12 and got the axe. He lasted 8 seasons after the SB loss btw.

Both guys were given some grace period as neither made the playoffs the year after their SB win/appearance, something Pederson has done so he gets credit there. I agree you get a little extra leash after a monumental championship, I just disagree on how long that period lasts and it has to take in to consideration the context of the success or disappointment. The Eagles are trending backwards after 3 years instead of right back in the mix, which Reid and Tomlin both did after just one down year. The nature of the Eagles 2 playoff appearances after the SB left a lot to be desired, so you’ve got two middling years followed by a dramatic ****show of a 3rd year. They’re cutting their losses maybe a year early instead of a year late and they probably would be best served cutting even more of them.

Pederson wanted to stay the course for a team that hasn’t been that good for 3 years. That doesn’t make sense, and Lurie was right to push back on that. That doesn’t make him a meddling owner, that makes him smart. Lurie has not meddled except when he needed to like getting Chip Kelly the hell out with a game remaining and if the HC doesn’t share the vision for the team beyond some minor differences, he’s got to go. Can’t hide behind the trophy forever.

Keeping Wentz could work, but it only will if things go perfectly. After what I just saw, I don’t expect that to happen. I keep saying it, but they’re doing this half in half out stuff and the chances of it working out positively just seem so low.

I think John Harbough would be a better comparison. After our SB win we spent the next five years mired in mediocrity. Prior to Jackson becoming our QB there was talk of him being on the hot seat.

During the poor stretch we never finished as bad as 4 wins, but the team was in a rut. We stayed with him because he was a SB winning coach and what happened? We are right back in the thick of things.

Now you might be inclined to counter with Lamar being the reason but honestly, how many staffs would have did what Baltimore did with him? Harbough was willing to throw out everything about conventional QBs and tailored the team to Lamar.
Thats what SB victory caliber coaches bring to the table.

Philly is a mess going into next year. I would have given Pederson next year to try to right the ship. (Dependent on whether or not he truly lost the locker room and unlikely to win it back)

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Tomlin can’t be compared here. He’s never had a losing season with PIT. Same goes for Carroll with SEA.

Andy Reid had a bad year following the Super Bowl (losing TO to drama), then didn’t have another losing season until his final year where he went 4-12 and got the axe. He lasted 8 seasons after the SB loss btw.

I think Reid is the 2nd best coach in football, and an All-timer. Regardless of his Super Bowl count.

I'm not a fan of Tomlin. Very much like McCarthy in GB, he is simply part of a great organization, IMO. Doesn't really mean much when talking about the Eagles situation, of course.

If their new coach can rebuild Wentz, I don't think think thats a terrible job. But its going to be a lean couple years.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I feel like this is a team that needs an experienced head coach, not a hot shot young coordinator. Bieniemy fits because he’s been around so long, but this team needs someone like Marvin Lewis. I just feel like he’s the steady hand they need. Might not be exciting but I think it rights the ship with a chance to be pretty good after his tenure in Cincy. He deserves another shot and to get that playoff monkey off his back. Way too much blame for their failures (thanks Kimo, Vontaze, and Pac-Man) and not nearly enough credit for turning the Bengals in to an NFL franchise. That was monumental.

Younger fans will never understand how pathetic those Bengals were.

One of the worst organizations in pro sports history, not just football.

Funny the ripple effect of Kimo going low. Carson Palmer was performing at All-Pro level, the hit derailed his career. The Bengals were off to a great start, and arguably would have won that game. So Lewis would have a Playoff win, and Cowher may never have won his SB, and may have kept chasing one, meaning no Tomlin.

Just crazy.

.. Marvin Lewis deserves another shot, for sure! Hope he gets it.

[reyes the roof]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Younger fans will never understand how pathetic those Bengals were.

One of the worst organizations in pro sports history, not just football.

Funny the ripple effect of Kimo going low. Carson Palmer was performing at All-Pro level, the hit derailed his career. The Bengals were off to a great start, and arguably would have won that game. So Lewis would have a Playoff win, and Cowher may never have won his SB, and may have kept chasing one, meaning no Tomlin.

Just crazy.

.. Marvin Lewis deserves another shot, for sure! Hope he gets it.

I’m torn when it comes to Marvin Lewis. Cincinnati is probably the worst place to Coach when it comes to resources since their owner is so cheap, so he deserves a ton of credit for the success he had there, but on the other hand his teams were so undisciplined that I’d probably stay away

[reyes the roof]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'll keep an eye on Eric Bieniemy though. I heard a during a podcast that he didn't have a great ATL interview(don't know to believe), Houston is a no go, Jaguars is Urban's job if he wants it. That leaves Jets, Lions, Chargers, and Philly. I can see Lurie dipping back into the Andy Reid tree

Houston just requested an interview with Bieniemy

[ProfessaPackMan]

NFL Off Topic

I think John Harbough would be a better comparison. After our SB win we spent the next five years mired in mediocrity. Prior to Jackson becoming our QB there was talk of him being on the hot seat.

During the poor stretch we never finished as bad as 4 wins, but the team was in a rut. We stayed with him because he was a SB winning coach and what happened? We are right back in the thick of things.

Now you might be inclined to counter with Lamar being the reason but honestly, how many staffs would have did what Baltimore did with him? Harbough was willing to throw out everything about conventional QBs and tailored the team to Lamar.
Thats what SB victory caliber coaches bring to the table.

Philly is a mess going into next year. I would have given Pederson next year to try to right the ship. (Dependent on whether or not he truly lost the locker room and unlikely to win it back)

That’s a good comp.

It’s a matter of how much patience you’re willing to have after a down year, if you’ve won a SB recently. Nobody is saying to give him a lifetime pass obviously. I just disagree with slick in saying giving someone 5 years after a SB win isn’t crazy or ridiculous.

I think Tomlin is a great HC(he’s top 3-5 for me)but if Pittsburgh were to fire him today, I wouldn’t necessarily blame them. Sure he won them a SB and has kept them competitive but that was also 12 years ago and for a franchise that prides itself on nothing but SBs. Standards are always going to different for each franchise obviously.

It’s easy to say “Oh they’re trending in the wrong direction” but as we’ve seen in this league, you can go from being in a crappy situation roster/cap wise to playoff team/division/conference winner in one year.

[illwill10]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Houston just requested an interview with Bieniemy

I think it's just a sham request. They did it at the time where he can't interview until their season is up. If they really wanted to interview him, they would have done it already. They're in a situation now that if they don't at least wait to interview him, it says they did it to shut Watson up.

I think the first shoe to drop is Jacksonville. They're waiting to see if Meyer really wants the job or not. I would be concerned if he isn't 100% in on it. The ball will start rolling after that

[reyes the roof]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think it's just a sham request. They did it at the time where he can't interview until their season is up. If they really wanted to interview him, they would have done it already. They're in a situation now that if they don't at least wait to interview him, it says they did it to shut Watson up.

I think the first shoe to drop is Jacksonville. They're waiting to see if Meyer really wants the job or not. I would be concerned if he isn't 100% in on it. The ball will start rolling after that

It’s either a sham request or they’re going to hire him to keep Watson happy rather than hire him because he’s the best candidate

[ImTellinTim]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I wonder if anyone (Jags) is going to be stupid enough to meet Urban Meyer's salary demands. Wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole.

[inkcil]

Re: NFL Off Topic

5-10 years grace period for a Super Bowl? That’s crazy in this league where players are churned for having a single down year, and with way more financial commitment too. Frankly, way too many people connected to the Eagles are stuck on 2018. We’re still talking about Nick Foles. LOL. Dude can’t even die in Chicago because he can’t beat out one of the bigger busts of the draft in the last 20 years. Being coached by Pederson 2.0 without the ring to deflect blame and protect himself... ask Chicago fans how they feel about Nagy.

It’s been 3 years. This team has not been good in any of them (even with the miraculous endings in 18 & 19 seasons). Illusion of success. And the way the last season went, it absolutely was time. But once again, the team was indecisive waiting over a week and now it looks bad. The decision (either way IMO) is fine, just like getting Sudfeld reps was, but it’s the way they went about it. Speaking of, Sudfeld needing reps looks like the biggest joke now. The last month of Eagles football has been them tripping all over themselves.

A lot of talk came out about Wentz, about Pederson, about their relationship, anonymous sources. I chalked it up to Philly media and a bad season. The talk only mattered because the team was bad. It made everyone look like a punk, honestly. Wentz can’t handle being benched, Pederson couldn’t handle his play calling being rightfully called out, the both of them suck at working together through their shared struggle.

Roseman gets blasted here. If it’s a trio to blame, Roseman never finishes “better” than 2nd. My guess as to Lurie’s thinking is Roseman is the numbers guy and the numbers are ugly. A lot of work to be done. He obviously has a vision that Lurie can see, and Pederson has a delusion to bring back or promote failed coordinators. It may be characterized as a power struggle, but DP ain’t bringing much power to that struggle. Taking the fall over Press Taylor? I guess that’s noble?

The mega issue becomes Wentz. I really don’t think his market is there with the struggles, the talk, and the contract. I’d give up a good bit of the farm for him if I’m Washington or Denver, but if he can be had for free... why not wait? They’re gonna make the Eagles sweat it out and with your QB, it’s hard to play the waiting game. It appears they’re signaling with this move that they want to try again with Wentz, and it’s not the worst idea. But it feels like they’re pulling the Uno reverse card with Hurts being in Wentz spot now — good, young, highly drafted, shown flashes of greatness... benched. Difference is he provides more value at a fraction of the cost, so the team doesn’t HAVE to dump him off in to someone else. That’s wonderful in Roseman’s Wide World of Numbers, but again the human cost isn’t being factored. It’s straight up bull**** to name Wentz the guy over Hurts after the season both guys just played and it’s setting up to blow up directly in the Eagles face if it doesn’t go almost perfectly because the first sign of struggle from Wentz there will be calls for Hurts. I guess the logic is Wentz can’t torpedo his value much more, they can absorb Hurts $ easily and still have him as insurance, but basically **** your feelings kid unless Wentz continues to be a pumpkin than yeah man we totally believed you were the guy the whole time!

So, who wants the job? LOL

You said a lot, and I actually agree with a lot of it, but the bottom lines are these 3 points:

1. Well, Wentz is done. He's a running QB that can't run anymore. Plus he's made of glass. He's done.

2. Roseman is not a good GM. There's a reason Lurie was willing to put him in the back of the room when Chip came along saying all the right things. Roseman is not good. Not referring to you, but over the years people always making excuses for this guy and I'm tired of it. Now a SB winning coach has to go because he can't see Roseman's vision? Roseman's vision? This concept is laughable to any Philly fan. It's one thing to get rid of Chip and let Roseman stay. But all these decades living in the shadows of the Cowboys and Giants and Washington and we finally get a SB and now this? The 2017-18 season is over, but it will never be forgotten or taken for granted by Eagles fans.

3. Pederson has made a lot of mistakes but he gives you what you want out of a head coach waaaaaay more than the other 2 give you what you want out of their positions.

And yeah, a SB win should have given him job protection for at least 2 more years. Look at the coaches around the league, the winners and the losers. Why would you ditch a head coach that just won the SB 3 years ago and you made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years after? Of course Lurie knows something we don't but without this exclusive inside scoop I'm left scratching my head. Makes no sense from the outside looking in.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I’m torn when it comes to Marvin Lewis. Cincinnati is probably the worst place to Coach when it comes to resources since their owner is so cheap, so he deserves a ton of credit for the success he had there, but on the other hand his teams were so undisciplined that I’d probably stay away

I don't think they were undisciplined as much as he took chances on two all-time head cases that couldn't be controlled.

Pac Man nearly shenanigan'ed his way out of football, but didn't. Burfict was just a complete mental midget. But both played pretty well, overall.

I think its sad those 2 could overshadow what Lewis did there. He took 2 different versions of that team to the Playoffs. And in one of the toughest divisions in history, with the Steelers and Ravens accounting for 3 Super Bowl trips in his tenure.