*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[ASB37]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

what are you talking about? after he was on the freighter, he went back in time. he died after he was on the freighter. the year he died does not play into it at all.

So him dying in 1977 doesn't affect him being on a freighter in 2004? I can get that because he went on a different timeline once he went back in time. Am I understanding this correctly?

[soltrain]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

So him dying in 1977 doesn't affect him being on a freighter in 2004? I can get that because he went on a different timeline once he went back in time. Am I understanding this correctly?

No, he is on a single timeline. But his 1977 is after 2004 because his life is moving in a straight line. He died after he was on the freighter.

I think Daniel is very wrong that there are variables. Whatever happened has happened. The Losties may try and detonate jughead, but they aren't going to it correctly, or it's not going to matter.

[p_rushing]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The timeline is only linear for the person experiencing it. Ellie had already killed her son before he was born or right around then. Ellie has already experienced this, but Daniel has no knowledge, even though in a true linear timeline he is already dead. On his timeline he is not dead until after ~2004-2007. In Ellie's timeline he died in ~1977.

-- Edit -- Also to hurt your brain, the Ellie that shot him didn't know anything about him or what was happening because she didn't experience. In order for her to believe, I think she will have to read the book and work with Jack.

Now there was a big clue to the timeline. She said when Desmond got shot, that was the first time in a while she didn't know what would happen. Why, because I think everything was in the book. The book contains everything up until they start going back in time. Daniel has no clue that Desmond gets shot because he went back in time.

-- End Edit --

Now the notebook is interesting because Daniel had to experience it on the island before 2004-07 time frame when he comes to the island. His book has notes and times of when things happen, so unless someone, say like Ellie, filled out the notebook, they haven't shown us this yet.

[Gizmo]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

WOW. Great episode tonight for the 100. Next week looks great and I can't believe there only 2 episodes left. After watching it, I have a million questions, but I'll wait til after the season to get some of those answers and just sit back and see what happens.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

So him dying in 1977 doesn't affect him being on a freighter in 2004? I can get that because he went on a different timeline once he went back in time. Am I understanding this correctly?

the best way to look at it man is to look at it like this:

Imagine tomorrow, you go back in time 50 years, and die. whatever you did last week, you already did it, your 15th bday party, graduating high school. all that stuff you did before you died. to us, it would be as if you died tomorrow, the fact that you died 50 years in the past doesnt mean anything.

now if you go back in time, and kill you parents or something or do something to change your own future, then there are issues. this wasnt the case on lost or at least not faradays.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Mind = blown.

Great mind-blowing episode. Lots of questions. I'll wait 'till the season ends and see what they throw us.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but could this hydrogen bomb detonating that could be coming be the reason why women on the island can no longer have babies?

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but could this hydrogen bomb detonating that could be coming be the reason why women on the island can no longer have babies?

Good theory and I'm sure it does something big. Faraday says it's catastrophic. But, what is catastrophic for him? He seems to talk in chains of events. This did that which caused this and then that happened because of this.

So, maybe in his mind, women being unable to bear children is catastrophic because it would make man extinct, right? Who knows. Or, maybe he thinks that Flight 815 crashing on the Island will bring along another chain of events that he is trying to prevent?

If Faraday is going back to 1977, what's to stop him from going to 2015? Or 2050? Or 3000? We don't know how much he might know and is trying to prevent by finding the first link in that chain. Maybe this is his life's work, to find the link and he thinks the unleashing of that energy is where it all starts.

The man is an enigma.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Now the notebook is interesting because Daniel had to experience it on the island before 2004-07 time frame when he comes to the island. His book has notes and times of when things happen, so unless someone, say like Ellie, filled out the notebook, they haven't shown us this yet.

I don't think that notebook has anything on 1977. Daniel won't know a thing about that year. His notes will have mentions of things in the 90's and 2000's without a doubt. Perhaps even the Purge.

What I see is Ellie finding the notebook and then knowing that she needs to give that same book to her son when he graduates from school as a doctor. I'm seeing that Ellie is following destiny here. She knows what's supposed to happen because she read it back in 1977. So, as a mother, she moves Daniel down that path. No piano. No girls. Only math. Because math and science is what gets him to the Island and back to 1977 to reveal that information to her.

And she wants Daniel to carry this out despite knowing that he'll die because his death is mandatory. Ellie isn't interested in changing fate. She sees things as predestined. She tells Desmond that back in the jewelry shop and she tells Daniel this as he grows up.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I don't think that notebook has anything on 1977. Daniel won't know a thing about that year. His notes will have mentions of things in the 90's and 2000's without a doubt. Perhaps even the Purge.

What I see is Ellie finding the notebook and then knowing that she needs to give that same book to her son when he graduates from school as a doctor. I'm seeing that Ellie is following destiny here. She knows what's supposed to happen because she read it back in 1977. So, as a mother, she moves Daniel down that path. No piano. No girls. Only math. Because math and science is what gets him to the Island and back to 1977 to reveal that information to her.

And she wants Daniel to carry this out despite knowing that he'll die because his death is mandatory. Ellie isn't interested in changing fate. She sees things as predestined. She tells Desmond that back in the jewelry shop and she tells Daniel this as he grows up.

If fate is fate, why would you worry about changing it?

Thats where I get perplexed.

The other thing is, if what happened, happened, then there is no way to avoid flight 815 from crashing.

Here's where it starts getting crazy and here's where I was coming from about 2 months ago in this thread....follow me......

It appears the Losties are now going to attempt to follow Faraday's instructions and try to make it so flight 815 never crashed.....

But it already did and the Losties are doing what they are doing because it crashed. So even if the Losties could jump to 2004, according to Old Miles seeing baby Miles, they would just run into themselves attempting to get onto the plane. Now they could lock them in a closet until flight 815 took off, but what good would that do? The Losties still got on the island in 2004. Thats fact.

SO here is where the time travel stops being time travel and goes into alternative dimensions that I was speaking about a while ago. Because Miles ran into Baby Miles we know that Losties can run into eachother. So if Jack prevents flight 815 from happening and Jack lands back in LA with his dad in 2004 there is still this other Jack(the one we know) running around in whatever time he's in that is older than the 2004 Jack.

I am having a hard time explaining this, but it boils down to the only way this can all work out is if the Losties we know die and natural course takes over the plane doesn't crash and everything goes on as it would have if the plane didn't crash.

Because if the Losties that we know live and they somehow prevent the plane from crashing, then you have 2 different things that happened in 2004. You have 2 different paths. 2 different Jacks, and 2 different realities of 2004.

If the Losties all die though, there is only 1 jack, 1 Kate, 1 Hurley, etc. The ones that land in 2004 in Los Angeles safe and sound and life goes on from there.

Hope I made this so people could understand what I'm saying...

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I still think that no matter what they do, they will not change the past.

It's part of the reason why Daniel said what he did to his mother.

That's pretty cold.

[dagger55]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

One thing that makes sense now is the when Faradays mom slapped Witmore for saying something about sacrifice. That triggered a reaction from her, since she knew that she just sent daniel back in time be killed by herself.

Also, if Eloise got Daniels journal in 1977, then she knew she gave it to him for graduation because it said so in the front of the book.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

An interesting interview (no spoilers - Damon and Carlton don't like them anyway). Anyway, here's one question that I think will disappoint some but it answers a question many have asked for a long time. Trust me, it's not a spoiler.

Alex: One mystery that you said a month ago, in a Sky One interview, you were not going to show us is basically Libby's backstory, yet two seasons ago you basically said there was one significant missing piece from her story which is how she got from Desmond to the mental institution, and you also added that to know that answer, you had to show her story through another character's flashback. So, now that you've said that her story is done on the show, can you now tell us her missing piece and which character would you have told it through?

Carlton: Uhh, you know, again, these are not questions that we are going to answer. I think the point we were trying to make with the Libby story is that everything is graded in terms of importance for us, and, as we are doing the last season of the show, it's not going to be sort of a didactic, you know, here's a list of a thousand questions that we're going to answer. That would not make for a very entertaining show. We are focusing on what we consider to be the significant questions, and mysteries, and character relationships. That's the story that we're gonna tell. I think that the reference to Libby was more illustrative of the fact that I think, we accept the fact that in the end of the day there will, probably, you could ask a spectrum of a thousand different fans “Well what question did you not get answered?” and there might be a thousand different answers, but we are focusing on what we consider to be the main questions of the show and the main narritive. It's impossible to tie up every loose end, and we don't really consider, honestly, Libby's story is incredibly tangential to the principle action on the show. For us, the focus of the final season really has to be on the main characters and what would generally be acknowledged as the most significant mysteries.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

If fate is fate, why would you worry about changing it?

Thats where I get perplexed.

The other thing is, if what happened, happened, then there is no way to avoid flight 815 from crashing.

Here's where it starts getting crazy and here's where I was coming from about 2 months ago in this thread....follow me......

It appears the Losties are now going to attempt to follow Faraday's instructions and try to make it so flight 815 never crashed.....

But it already did and the Losties are doing what they are doing because it crashed. So even if the Losties could jump to 2004, according to Old Miles seeing baby Miles, they would just run into themselves attempting to get onto the plane. Now they could lock them in a closet until flight 815 took off, but what good would that do? The Losties still got on the island in 2004. Thats fact.

SO here is where the time travel stops being time travel and goes into alternative dimensions that I was speaking about a while ago. Because Miles ran into Baby Miles we know that Losties can run into eachother. So if Jack prevents flight 815 from happening and Jack lands back in LA with his dad in 2004 there is still this other Jack(the one we know) running around in whatever time he's in that is older than the 2004 Jack.

I am having a hard time explaining this, but it boils down to the only way this can all work out is if the Losties we know die and natural course takes over the plane doesn't crash and everything goes on as it would have if the plane didn't crash.

Because if the Losties that we know live and they somehow prevent the plane from crashing, then you have 2 different things that happened in 2004. You have 2 different paths. 2 different Jacks, and 2 different realities of 2004.

If the Losties all die though, there is only 1 jack, 1 Kate, 1 Hurley, etc. The ones that land in 2004 in Los Angeles safe and sound and life goes on from there.

Hope I made this so people could understand what I'm saying...

I get it and it's part of the reason why I feel a bit frustrated.

All we've been getting is proof that the past can't be changed. One guy tries this and that ends up happening anyway. Time and time again, you can't change the past.

But, I can't see a show like Lost ending with failure. Is that how it wraps up, just showing everyone that the Losties can't change the past? It seems like a bad ending for a TV Series. Fans would go crazy.

So, that means something has to change. A rabbit needs to be pulled out from a hat and we all need to drop our jaws in confusion because otherwise, the show was just a circle and no one likes a failed conclusion.

I'm frustrated because I think that this rabbit is gonna be a joke. It's gonna be something stupid that'll make me hate the show. I know it's coming, but I don't know what it is and I have a hard time believing that I'll accept it. Damon and Carlton need to have a huge rabbit in that hat. It better be huge.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

One thing that makes sense now is the when Faradays mom slapped Witmore for saying something about sacrifice. That triggered a reaction from her, since she knew that she just sent daniel back in time be killed by herself.

Also, if Eloise got Daniels journal in 1977, then she knew she gave it to him for graduation because it said so in the front of the book.

She obviously knows what she did, but I took the slap to mean something else.

Widmore tells her that Daniel is his son too. That's when Eloise slaps him. I think it's more of a "Oh, don't give me your bs. Now you want to act like you care?"

Obviously, Charles funded Daniel's research, but he hasn't been a part of his life at all.

Can we just say that the relationship between people has been pretty obvious for most of Lost? Goodness.

Claire being related to Jack. We were talking about that a season before it was even mentioned.

Miles being Chang's son? That was called back when we saw a little Asian boy being lifted by Chang.

Charles being Faraday's father? The research wasn't enough to convince anyone? It was so obvious.