*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[Beantown]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Spoiler

There will be an entire episode to the backstory of Jacob/MiB

Spoiler

I figured there had to be.

Consider that my most anticipated episode of Lost.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Good recap on CNN.com

Tuesday night's episode of "Lost" mostly took place in 1867, with the story of how ageless Richard Alpert came to the island. This was probably the second most highly anticipated episode for many "Losties" aside from the series finale itself, and it didn't disappoint.
One of the best parts of "Ab Aeterno" was the lack of any flash-sideways scene, which have been hit-or-miss thus far. Instead, we got a bonus flashback scene revealing that Jacob asked Ilana to protect the six candidates before sending her out on her quest.
Ilana was also instructed to ask Richard about what to do next. However, as we learned two weeks ago, he is officially fresh out of answers. Jack the believer was told by Richard that they're all dead and in hell. When Jack turned to Hurley for answers from Jacob, Hurley was actually conversing in Spanish with another unseen person.
Without too much ado, it's on to the big enchilada: in short, Richard lost his wife and accidentally killed a doctor on the same day. Condemned to death by hanging, even a priest offered him no comfort. At the last minute, he was saved by Magnus Hanso (great-grandfather of Alvar Hanso from the Dharma Initiative) and placed on the infamous Black Rock, which as we all know, shipwrecked on the island (taking out Jacob's statue in the process).
Between Black Rock officer Whitfield and the smoke monster, everyone but Richard dies. He's visited by his beloved wife who first tells him that they are dead and he is in hell. On the brink of death, he is touched, and saved by ... not Jacob, but the Man in Black. Once again, we see "Smokey" offering something that someone really wants in exchange for allegiance to him. The price for Richard's freedom? He must kill the "devil," Jacob.
Needless to say, Richard doesn't succeed in his quest, but Jacob does give him the gift (or curse?) of immortality. The Man in Black tells Richard that the offer to join him is always on the table, and 140 years later, Richard has changed his mind ... but not before Hurley shows up with a message from his dead wife Isabella, which keeps him, for now, on Jacob's side.
Wow. A lot to digest here ... specifically:

• A lot of what we learn here has a lot to do with whether or not Jacob can be fully trusted. For example, he tells Richard that the island is like a cork on a bottle keeping all of the liquid (darkness) out, and the Man in Black believes that it is humankind's nature to sin, which Jacob wants to prove wrong. For now, we've been given every reason to believe him. (And I hope this isn't one of those Obi-Wan "Vader betrayed and murdered your father" scenarios.)
• Isabella's final message for Richard is that the Man in Black cannot leave the island, or everyone on it goes to hell. So the island truly is the gateway to hell? Could it be that the early theories about the island being Purgatory were only slightly off?
• Just like with the Man in Black, Jacob can only be killed if he doesn't speak first ... except that he said plenty to Ben before he was killed. Reason enough not to believe "Smokey" (aside from, you know, all the other lying and killing he did in this episode alone)?
• Richard's immortality was given to him after he mentioned his fear of dying and going to hell (which he was promised by the priest) almost in passing. Jacob couldn't promise him what the Man in Black did (the chance to reunite with his wife, etc.). Is that because the Man in Black is more powerful, or Jacob is just the one telling the truth? Jacob did mention that he doesn't get involved beyond bringing people to the island, whereas the Man in Black gets quite involved.
• Every moment Richard is at his breaking point, he is saved by an outside force. And what set Richard apart from the rest who were killed by the smoke monster?
• How exactly was the Black Rock brought to the island? Did Jacob visit Magnus Hanso?
• If the island is the "cork," is Jacob the protector of the cork? Jacob references his candidate replacements in 1867... was he the first person to have that job?
• Everyone whom Jacob brings to the island eventually dies on the island, it seems. Does that mean that the Man in Black eventually wins their little cosmic bet over and over? Is Jacob given a black rock (wait a minute ...) for each one the same way the Man in Black was given a white rock?
• Loved Michael Giacchino's music once again in this episode, especially during Richard's reunion with Isabella.

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm gonna have to watch the re-show next week that tells you what went on because I didn't catch any of this

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Amazing episode again last night. IMO one of the best ever.

It seems to be all too perfect that MIB is evil. I can't be the only one that doubts this. It's just so obvious. Add to that Jacob's reaction's to certain things. Taking Ricardo and dunking him in the water?

I watched it more as a baptism really subtle, but a baptism nonetheless. I mean right after that Jacob offered him to be his disciple/intermediary

I wished they would have answered how\why Richard visited Locke as a child. That would have been before Ben took over as leader based on the ages of Locke and Ben. That never made sense to me.

You don't remember when the losties were jumping through time. Locke meets up with Richard telling him he will become their leader in the present? In the timeframe this was before Richard visits Locke as a child, thus the reason why he tests Locke as a kid.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm also shocked about the straightforward "we're all dead and in hell" revelation. Would make EVERYTHING in the show plausible if this were the case.

This is another one of Lost's patented nods to the audience. We've heard the dream one, the snow globe and purgatory. Now, they use the hell theory and pretty much obliterate it. Not to mention they threw in the "You're all dead" theory for giggles as well.

I wished they would have answered how\why Richard visited Locke as a child. That would have been before Ben took over as leader based on the ages of Locke and Ben. That never made sense to me.

This was already answered.

Richard visited Locke in 1961 because John Locke told him in 1954 to visit him as a child. And Locke knows to tell Richard this because Richard tells Locke to speak to him in 1961.

And that's why time travel is so crazy.

As I researched the exact dates I stumbled on something I completely forgot. When Richard visits Locke he lays down six items: a compass, baseball glove, old book, vial of granules, a comic book and a knife.

Locke chooses the knife as once belonging to him and that scares Richard away.

It's important because the producers stated that the scene was made in reference to how the new Dalai Lama is found. The new Dalai Lama should be able to pick the item that once belonged to him in a past life.

Richard was looking to see if Locke was the reincarnated leader. Instead, he discovered that Locke was not. So, who has a knife? The Man In Black does.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

• Isabella's final message for Richard is that the Man in Black cannot leave the island, or everyone on it goes to hell. So the island truly is the gateway to hell? Could it be that the early theories about the island being Purgatory were only slightly off?
• Just like with the Man in Black, Jacob can only be killed if he doesn't speak first ... except that he said plenty to Ben before he was killed. Reason enough not to believe "Smokey" (aside from, you know, all the other lying and killing he did in this episode alone)?

Eh, that's poor observation.

Isabella's mention of "everyone on it goes to hell" is just a connection for Richard. It doesn't mean that everyone will literally go to hell. Throughout the episode, Richard feared hell. He constantly talked about it and thought about it. He prayed to not go to hell. He is afraid of hell. So Isabella tells him that everyone will go there if he fails. It's just figurative speech.

No one ever said that you cannot kill Jacob or the MiB if they speak first. I don't know where this writer got this idea from. They only warned that if you let them speak first, they will convince you otherwise of killing them. MiB is disappointed because he says Jacob can be convincing. Yet, MiB is just the same.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I watched it more as a baptism really subtle, but a baptism nonetheless. I mean right after that Jacob offered him to be his disciple/intermediary

Great point. I can see that.

This is another one of Lost's patented nods to the audience. We've heard the dream one, the snow globe and purgatory. Now, they use the hell theory and pretty much obliterate it. Not to mention they threw in the "You're all dead" theory for giggles as well.

Jacob could be lying that they aren't in hell...? I still don't think everything he says should be taken at face value.

This show...

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

All I know is that I cannot wait until we finally get the Jacob/MiB back-story. If there is an episode centered around those two, with how well they each play their role and portray the characters, that may very well be my favorite episode of Lost...and I really don't care if any of the Losties are actually in it.

Me too.

[dossier]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Great point. I can see that.



Jacob could be lying that they aren't in hell...? I still don't think everything he says should be taken at face value.

This show...

I think these guys are "the end justifies the process" or w/e.

Him dunking Richard helped him realize he isn't dead and in hell. I mean Jacob did let locke fly out of a window and become paralyzed.

Also I hope Jacob doesn't have a plan that incorporates everyone's action including the MIB. That's just overkill, I mean if you could plan all of that, you really can't think of a way to permanently keeping MIB there forever.

And yes, the guys who play Jacob and MIB are doing a great job, whenever an actor can make a slight motion that reveals alot about their character you know where the talent is.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

This is another one of Lost's patented nods to the audience. We've heard the dream one, the snow globe and purgatory. Now, they use the hell theory and pretty much obliterate it. Not to mention they threw in the "You're all dead" theory for giggles as well.



This was already answered.

Richard visited Locke in 1961 because John Locke told him in 1954 to visit him as a child. And Locke knows to tell Richard this because Richard tells Locke to speak to him in 1961.

And that's why time travel is so crazy.

As I researched the exact dates I stumbled on something I completely forgot. When Richard visits Locke he lays down six items: a compass, baseball glove, old book, vial of granules, a comic book and a knife.

Locke chooses the knife as once belonging to him and that scares Richard away.

It's important because the producers stated that the scene was made in reference to how the new Dalai Lama is found. The new Dalai Lama should be able to pick the item that once belonged to him in a past life.

Richard was looking to see if Locke was the reincarnated leader. Instead, he discovered that Locke was not. So, who has a knife? The Man In Black does.

Ooh, that's cool. I had forgotten about that.
But doesn't Jacob own the knife by 1961? Because he took it from Richard in 1867 right? And at some point he gives it to the Asian protector of the temple (can't remember his name - the dude Sayid killed).

EDIT: For some reason I though Alpert was only angered because Locke failed the test. Do you really think it's because he was scared by the choice he made?

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

All I know is that I cannot wait until we finally get the Jacob/MiB back-story. If there is an episode centered around those two, with how well they each play their role and portray the characters, that may very well be my favorite episode of Lost...and I really don't care if any of the Losties are actually in it.

Agreed. The Jacob and MiB relationship is the most intriguing in the show. I do wish more time had been spent on them, but I'm content with what we get now.

I always anticipated the reveal of Jacob and knowing what the smoke monster is, but I never expected they'd be the best characters on the show.

[USF11]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

No one ever said that you cannot kill Jacob or the MiB if they speak first. I don't know where this writer got this idea from. They only warned that if you let them speak first, they will convince you otherwise of killing them. MiB is disappointed because he says Jacob can be convincing. Yet, MiB is just the same.

This is how I took it too.

Also this whole Mib v. Jacob v. Losties dynamic reminds me of the Howling Man episode of The Twilight Zone.

[MachoMyers]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Don't know if it was mentioned but the rock that Jacob gave the MiB in 1867 was the same one that Locke (as the MiB) placed on the scale when he took Sawyer to Jacob's cave with the candidates names on the wall.

Sawyer even asks something along the lines of "what is that for."

MiB replied, "inside joke."

Good recap on CNN.com

[*]Everyone whom Jacob brings to the island eventually dies on the island, it seems. Does that mean that the Man in Black eventually wins their little cosmic bet over and over? Is Jacob given a black rock (wait a minute ...) for each one the same way the Man in Black was given a white rock?[/LIST]

You could also argue that the MiB hasn't won at all because he has yet to find someone who can kill Jacob. This, of course, goes out the window once Ben comes along. Ironically enough it was Richard who saved Ben who then eventually killed Jacob. So I guess you could say Richard did everything the MiB asked him to do - "kill the devil (Jacob). It just took him 150 years.

[larrygiterdone]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[*]Isabella's final message for Richard is that the Man in Black cannot leave the island, or everyone on it goes to hell. So the island truly is the gateway to hell? Could it be that the early theories about the island being Purgatory were only slightly off?

i have a feeling hurley added that himself and not isabella since he seems to be a jacob believer

[Beantown]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

i have a feeling hurley added that himself and not isabella since he seems to be a jacob believer

That was my first thought as well: that Jacob told Hurley to add that part in. Between Hurley's hesitation to say it, the facial expression, the close-up as he said it...seemed like Hurley was lying.