Red Dead Redemption

[CM1847]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

Also dont forget him becoming a "Family Man" is part of his "redemption" Basically he was a criminal gang member, was left for dead by his gang, returned home to be a family man, and the law wouldnt let him. They exploited his love for his family and basically made him go after his old crew. ALl along the objective was to kill the whole gang. Marston was part of that gang, so the Marshals new what they were doing all along. After Dutch was killed, I always assumed a higher authority said "No, Every one must die" so they went back for Marston after a while had passed.

Spoiler

Not a bad explanation, better than anything I came up with after finishing the game. My only issue with it is that the main guy John was dealing with(Ross, maybe?) never liked John. In your situation it would mean that Ross wanted to let him live but was overruled, that doesn't play into the story very well because in all of the dealings with Ross, it seemed like he would rather have just killed John in the first place.

Maybe they intended to leave some room for interpretation, but to me it seemed like it was a twist for the sake of having a twist, not something really thought through and developed with the rest of the plot.

[CM1847]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

so you think John should have died...just earlier in the story. I cant say that makes sense at all imo

Spoiler

I think that if the US Marshalls wanted John dead, it makes no sense for them to have waited, they would have killed him when they had John's gun in their hands standing over Dutch's dead body. That is the point they would have killed him to tie up the loose ends, not waiting and then sending a small army to his farm.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

I think that if the US Marshalls wanted John dead, it makes no sense for them to have waited, they would have killed him when they had John's gun in their hands standing over Dutch's dead body. That is the point they would have killed him to tie up the loose ends, not waiting and then sending a small army to his farm.

Spoiler

they had to build up his wife and spoiled whiny brat of a son somehow, and in the end killing him only made sense, really. There could be reasons that they'd wait, but perhaps Rockstar should have worked that in somehow just to clear it up.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Finally finished the game

Spoiler

I don't mind playing as Jack at the end. The father son interaction got a little tiring in all those boring Ranch missions, but whatever. As far as John getting killed it doesn't make much sense to me. If the Feds wanted the whole gang dead, Abigail would have been killed as well.

It was obvious Ross hated John, but so what? Other than that hatred what was the point in killing John? The game basically rammed the idea of redemption and change down the player's throat and then in the end none of that really mattered. Which makes the honor bar absolutely worthless. What's the difference in between a good guy vs. a bad guy when all the cutscenes are identical and the ending is the same? Kind of makes the idea of redemption and the whole honor bar system a bit of false promise.

Anyway...

As far as the rest of the game, the world was wonderful and while the size might actually be bigger than GTAIV, it felt a lot smaller because there are so few contacts and just so few people in the towns. That really made the world smaller to me. Not to mention there were like two likable/memorable contacts compared to GTAIV's seemingly endless parade of contacts and side characters.

The missions I did enjoy and the challenges were fun the first time through and I liked the way the treasure collection was set up in the game. I thought John Marston was a more enjoyable character to play as than Niko.

If there is another one, I say take it before 1911 back maybe 20 years. Expand the locations even more. The "Great Plains" felt small as hell compared to the rest of the map. It would be nice to encounter tribes of Native Americans, maybe remnants of renegade Civil War troops, keep the Mexico portion, even more open world events, etc. More contacts. More customization of the character that ties into say hunting, the gunsmith, and clothing - such as having to collection certain pelts to make certain clothing pieces (ie: vests, boots, etc).

Also just make it possible for the player to kind of shape their own story. I think the next one should go the Clint Eastwood, Man With No Name route. That way the player can make the character whoever they want it to be and actually make the player's actions count for something. So if the character is an evil bastard, have the law great him when he comes into town and give him a warning, make it a possibility to team up with other outlaws, etc. Then on the flipside if your character is an angel, have it a possibility to team up with the law, and maybe even become a Sheriff of a town, etc.

Anyway, the game was really enjoyable and great, but there is a lot that can be done with this open world western genre, so I hope its not the last we see of it.

Also, an open world samurai game in this same vein would be AMAZING.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Also, an open world samurai game in this same vein would be AMAZING.

I agree.

I'd also like to see something in terms of space travel. It'd be cool to be able to explore space and venture through various planets and stuff. I've always wanted an open world space game. I know Mass Effect kind of falls into this category, but not really how I'd like it to.

[CM1847]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

they had to build up his wife and spoiled whiny brat of a son somehow, and in the end killing him only made sense, really. There could be reasons that they'd wait, but perhaps Rockstar should have worked that in somehow just to clear it up.

Spoiler

That's my point, really. The reason they didn't kill John immediately after Dutch died was so they could build up the son. Good storytelling doesn't involve using a plot twist to shape the characters actions. Good storytelling is the exact opposite, the character's personalities shape the plot.

Anyway, I think it's been beaten to death by now, but I wish they had handled the end a bit better. And I agree, R* very well may have had reasons for the turn in mind, but if they did I wish they would have made them known.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Any word on any episodic DLC for this? I know there's the multiplayer stuff and the zombie DLC later, but anything going to happen for this similar to GTA4?

[Burns11]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

The reason they didn't kill John immediately after Dutch died was so they could build up the son

Spoiler

In that case then, they failed miserably. Not only did they ensure the end made no sense, they completely ruined any possible connection you could have had with Jack when they sent you on dull *** mundane missions with a whiny little toad. If they would have shot John right after Dutch then had you as a grown Jack looking at the graves of your parents the story would have made more sense, Jack would have been more tolerable and they could have spent the work they wasted on those missions on a real set of revenge missions making the entire thing 1000 times more satisfying.

[Jonesy]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Anyway, the game was really enjoyable and great, but there is a lot that can be done with this open world western genre, so I hope its not the last we see of it.

Also, an open world samurai game in this same vein would be AMAZING.

Great impressions, ideas for another one and a great idea about a samurai open world game, that would be outstanding.

I agree.

I'd also like to see something in terms of space travel. It'd be cool to be able to explore space and venture through various planets and stuff. I've always wanted an open world space game. I know Mass Effect kind of falls into this category, but not really how I'd like it to.

Another great idea. An open world space game would be sensational. They could really go all out and have different planets offering a real diverse range of environments / tasks / mission types etc. The DLC would be nearly limitless for this as they could release new whole planets as DLC and milk it for years if the quality is good enough.

[Boltman]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Great impressions, ideas for another one and a great idea about a samurai open world game, that would be outstanding.


Another great idea. An open world space game would be sensational. They could really go all out and have different planets offering a real diverse range of environments / tasks / mission types etc. The DLC would be nearly limitless for this as they could release new whole planets as DLC and milk it for years if the quality is good enough.

There was one way back in the day, you could even use different types of blades. Go to different towns, and when you finished dudes off blood would spray everywhere Kill Bill style! I forget the name, but it was a great game.

[Jonesy]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

There was one way back in the day, you could even use different types of blades. Go to different towns, and when you finished dudes off blood would spray everywhere Kill Bill style! I forget the name, but it was a great game.

Was that Bushido Blade? I think i remember that game being kinda open world with some hack and slash elements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_Blade_(video_game)

For those that have finished the game:

Spoiler

how would you liked to have seen it end?

Maybe it would have been better if they had had 2 endings. If you played as a "bad guy" it would just have had John get shot as soon as he had killed dutch then it could have swapped to the kid and how he was looking down at his parents graves then you played as him search for his final revenge or "redemption" if you will?

If you played as a good guy they could have had some way where your son/wife were killed by accident and you had to hunt down their killers and remained as John rather than Jack?

any other ideas?

[Steel5]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

In that case then, they failed miserably. Not only did they ensure the end made no sense, they completely ruined any possible connection you could have had with Jack when they sent you on dull *** mundane missions with a whiny little toad. If they would have shot John right after Dutch then had you as a grown Jack looking at the graves of your parents the story would have made more sense, Jack would have been more tolerable and they could have spent the work they wasted on those missions on a real set of revenge missions making the entire thing 1000 times more satisfying.

Spoiler

Agreed. It would have made a lot more sense, and not make me hate the son. Everytime Jack speaks as an adult, I hear a hint of that little whiny kid in his voice, and it upsets me.

[Chizzypoof]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

There was one way back in the day, you could even use different types of blades. Go to different towns, and when you finished dudes off blood would spray everywhere Kill Bill style! I forget the name, but it was a great game.

off topic:
That was "Way of the Samurai". I thought it was a very good, incognito PS2 game. They made a new one recently for PS3 but it didn't do as well. I was thinking about trying it though.

on-topic end game discussion:

Spoiler

The only thing that I didn't really understand about the final mission with John was that he pretty much gave up. There were really only a handful of soldiers and agents that you should have been able to handle with ease. Especially since you single-handedly took out every rebel and soldier in Mexico. With choice one of the draws to this game I wish you had more of a choice to fight it out. I understand the story needs to be written, but multiple endings would have been fun for this type of game.

[Bellsprout]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

End game:

Spoiler

I would've loved it if killing Ross wasn't just one extra mission. Felt like it needed to be it's own story, it's own adventure. There was something anticlimactic about it. That's the only change I would've made.

[CM1847]

Re: Red Dead Redemption

Spoiler

how would you liked to have seen it end?

Maybe it would have been better if they had had 2 endings. If you played as a "bad guy" it would just have had John get shot as soon as he had killed dutch then it could have swapped to the kid and how he was looking down at his parents graves then you played as him search for his final revenge or "redemption" if you will?

If you played as a good guy they could have had some way where your son/wife were killed by accident and you had to hunt down their killers and remained as John rather than Jack?

any other ideas?

Spoiler

Definitely would have loved to see multiple endings. At least a simple two-choice ending based on whether you played the game with high honor or with low honor.

As for the ending that was there, I'm fine with it, but I wish they had made the two US Marshall characters act a bit differently. Have one of them absolutely hate Marson throughout and continually remind Marston that he wants him dead(Ross would be this guy). But have the other stick up for Marston since Marston is helping the government. Then after Dutch is dead, Ross grabs the gun and aims at Marston, ready to pull the trigger, but the other US Marshall comes in and stops it. Then, after all of the farm-hand missions, Ross comes back and has some dialouge about how his Marshall buddy got fired/killed/whatever so now he's free to kill Marston and the game ends the same way.

Something as simple as that would have totally justified them ending for me.