Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

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  • Brandwin
    Hall Of Fame
    • Jul 2002
    • 30621

    #1

    Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

    Horrible...
    http://www.ktvu.com/video/18409133/index.html


    OAKLAND — A BART police officer struggling to handcuff a 22-year-old man, stood up over the facedown Hayward resident and fired a single shot into his back while a handful of officers watched, a video taken by a train passenger apparently shows.

    The attorney for the family of Oscar Grant III, fatally shot by an unidentified BART officer early New Year's Day, said Sunday he plans to file a $25 million lawsuit against the department and asked prosecutors to consider filing murder charges against the officer.

    The shooting occurred shortly before 2 a.m. Thursday after five officers responded to the Fruitvale station to reports of a fight on a train, officials said, though they have not confirmed whether Grant
    was involved in the fight.

    The new video, obtained by television station KTVU, shows two officers restraining a struggling suspect. While the man is lying face down on the ground, one officer appears to be seen pulling out a gun and firing a single shot into his back.

    Civil rights attorney John Burris, known for his work in several high-profile cases involving police abuse and corruption, said at a Sunday news conference that the shooting was "the most unconscionable shooting" he has ever seen. He said that the Alameda County district attorney should consider filing charges of second degree murder or manslaughter against the officer.

    "I've drafted a notice of claim against BART for $25 million I plan to submit officially,"
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    Burris said, adding that the officer had violated Grant's civil rights and caused his wrongful death.

    The Police Department is in the early stages of a thorough investigation, BART police Chief Gary Gee said Sunday at a news conference. He declined to discuss many details, as doing so "before all the facts are in could compromise individual recollections and do disservice to the truth and the answers we're all seeking."

    BART police are cooperating fully with a parallel investigation by the Alameda County district attorney's office, Gee said.

    Gee declined to identify the officer but said he is a two-year BART police veteran. The officer was given drug and alcohol tests before being sent home on administrative leave Thursday, Gee said.

    The last BART officer-involved shooting occurred in May 2001, Gee said.

    Mario Pangelina Jr., whose sister had a 4-year-old daughter with Grant, said he was on the same train as Grant that night, but on a different car. He said he saw Grant's interactions with police immediately before the shooting.

    "First, an officer grabbed Oscar by the neck and pushed him against the wall," Pangelina said. "Oscar didn't fight him, but he didn't go down either. He was like, 'What did I do?' Then another officer came up with his Taser and held it right in his face. Oscar said, 'Please don't shoot me, please don't Taser me, I have a daughter,' over and over again, real fast, and he sat down."

    Grant was the only man in a small group sitting against the wall who was not handcuffed, Burris said, so officers grabbed him away from the wall and pressed him belly-down onto the ground.

    "One officer was kneeling over his neck and head, and another standing over him," Burris said. "He was not kicking, and one officer was pulling on his arm. The standing officer pulled out his weapon and, within moments, fired the gun into Mr. Grant's back."

    Burris said the bullet went through Grant's lower back and ricocheted off the ground up into his lungs, killing him.

    BART's 206 sworn officers attend the same academies and training programs as city police and sheriff's deputies. According to BART's Web site, its requirements go beyond state guidelines, as every officer applicant must have completed at least a year of college.

    Police have one video of the incident in evidence, different from the video that local media have released, and the quality of that video makes it hard to reach a sure conclusion, Gee said.

    "It's not clear to me why the officer felt he needed to shoot. I don't know, and from my perspective it doesn't matter," Burris said.

    Two authorities on police use of deadly force, both former law enforcement officers, said the newly discovered tape leaves unanswered questions.

    "Strictly on the basis of this video, it is impossible to determine whether the shooting was justified because the officer who fired the shot might have seen some imminent threat to his or others' lives that the camera does not detect at that distance, angle and resolution," said Michael Scott, a University of Wisconsin law professor, former police chief in Florida and co-author of "Deadly Force: What We Know."

    Scott said he watched the video several times. If there was a threat, he wrote in an e-mail to the Times, it "would most likely have to be a firearm or other weapon in the possession of Mr. Grant. However, if it turns out that Mr. Grant had no such weapon, it is awfully difficult to imagine what might have justified the use of deadly force."

    Curtis J. Cope agreed that the tape doesn't show enough to draw clear conclusions.

    "There are so many things we don't know," said Cope, a former 30-year law enforcement officer who has conducted police training and provides expert testimony in police procedure cases. "We certainly don't know the reason why they decided to put him prone on the ground. We don't know what reactions were taking place, what orders were being given and whether or not he is then complying or not complying. ... You need to look at every possible angle of it. Those angles all take time."

    Grant was a butcher at popular Oakland grocery store Farmer Joe's and a loving father, family members said Sunday.

    "He was so happy with his daughter," said Lita Gomez, sister to the mother of Grant's child. "You could see he was just so happy when he looked at her. Now, he's not going to be there for kindergarten. He's not going to be there for her prom. He's not going to be there for her wedding. She was robbed of that."

    Family members erected a memorial for Grant outside the Fruitvale BART station Saturday night, where they said they plan to continue honoring his memory for 10 days.

    A public funeral service is planned for 11 a.m. Wednesday at Palma Ceia Baptist Church, 28605 Ruus Road in Hayward, family members said.

    Gee asked anyone with information on the shooting to call BART investigators at 877-679-7000, ext. 7040, or the Alameda County district attorney's office at 510-272-6222.

    Staff writer John Simerman contributed to this report.
    # Deadly force on BART Officer David Betancourt, a 22-year law enforcement veteran, shot a naked Bruce Seward outside the Hayward BART station before dawn on Memorial Day in 2001. Seward, 42, was asleep on a bench and appeared unconscious. After calling for an ambulance, Betancourt approached when Seward woke up, grabbed the officer's nightstick and swung, smacking the patrol car, police said. Betancourt used pepper spray on Seward, but it had no effect, police said. Family members and mental health advocates decried the shooting, but a BART review cleared Betancourt of wrongdoing.
    # BART police Officer Fred Crabtree was cleared of wrongdoing after he shot an unarmed 19-year-old man, Jerrold Hall, from behind at the Hayward station in 1992. Crabtree died in 1996, apparently hanging himself. Hall's father, Cornelius Hall, sued the agency and won what he calls a small settlement.


    Source http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11369592?sou...ACE0DA4EF2.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc
  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28959

    #2
    Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

    There's a thread around here somewhere about it, maybe it was in the off-topic thread.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

    Comment

    • callmetaternuts
      All Star
      • Jul 2004
      • 7045

      #3
      Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

      Oh man, this is sure to get everyone all riled up
      Check out my Tampa Bay Buccaneers CFM Thread.

      You too can be a 5* recruit at FSU.......

      Originally posted by TwelveozPlaya21
      add worthless Xavier Lee to that list..
      Originally posted by MassNole
      CFL here he comes. Pfft, wait that would require learning a playbook. McDonalds here he comes.

      Comment

      • Brandwin
        Hall Of Fame
        • Jul 2002
        • 30621

        #4
        Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

        Hopefully everyone can remain cival. I don't see how the cop thought it was his taser. Just a bogus excuse if you ask me.

        Comment

        • Cebby
          Banned
          • Apr 2005
          • 22327

          #5
          Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

          Hopefully someone kills him.

          The world doesn't need sick ****s who go around capping people in the back.

          Comment

          • yamabushi
            MVP
            • Feb 2006
            • 1265

            #6
            Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

            Seriously, that video shows nothing.

            According to sources, Grant had a prison record. Details were unavailable Sunday.
            ...........
            Originally posted by Alexis de Tocqueville
            The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

            Comment

            • Cebby
              Banned
              • Apr 2005
              • 22327

              #7
              Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

              Originally posted by yamabushi
              Seriously, that video shows nothing.

              It shows one man shooting an unarmed man in the back.

              It shows murder. If you want to shoot suspected prisoners, you should go to the Sudan, Nazi Germany, or Soviet Russia. In America, that behavior is unacceptable.
              Last edited by Cebby; 01-07-2009, 03:02 PM.

              Comment

              • aholbert32
                (aka Alberto)
                • Jul 2002
                • 33106

                #8
                Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                Originally posted by yamabushi
                Seriously, that video shows nothing.


                ...........

                I agree. You should be allowed to shoot any person with a prison record in the back. 2 days in jail for disorderly conduct...shoot him in the back.

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #9
                  Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                  Originally posted by yamabushi
                  Seriously, that video shows nothing.


                  ...........
                  Wow, don't know what else to tell you. It's pretty clear in this video, especially at 2:10. Look I hate when people get these knee-jerk reactions over "police brutality", but if you're going to defend the actions of that murderous BART cop I don't think you are healthy.

                  There were how many cops on him already? He was already restrained. No way the victim was getting out of their grasp.

                  Who cares that he had a criminal record? That comment right there makes me sick.

                  <object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IKy-WSZMklc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IKy-WSZMklc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>

                  Comment

                  • Stumbleweed
                    Livin' the dream
                    • Oct 2006
                    • 6279

                    #10
                    Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                    Stay classy, Yamabushi.
                    Send your Midnight Release weirdo pics/videos to my new website: http://www.peopleofmidnightreleases.com!

                    Comment

                    • ex carrabba fan
                      I'll thank him for you
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 32744

                      #11
                      Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                      Before I speak out of my behind, what does the tazer look like that are issued to these guys? I mean how can you f'n mistake a 9mm for a tazer? How is that even possible?

                      Comment

                      • MassNole
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 18848

                        #12
                        Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                        Wait, I thought cops were there to protect us, and only scumbag lawyers made up instances of them abusing and brutalizing innocent people.

                        Comment

                        • ex carrabba fan
                          I'll thank him for you
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 32744

                          #13
                          Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                          The more I think about it, and by the responses I've seen on other forums.. I am in the boat that he made a stupid mistake.

                          You can see it in his initial reaction after firing. He looks shocked.

                          I just think it had to be a mistake. Why would he have any reason to murder a dude with hundreds of witnesses, and the victim was already subdued.

                          The BART officer was still an idiot though, he didn't even need to use a tazer.

                          Senseless, but things like this happen in life. While most of us will be getting drunk and generally having fun on New Year's, this family will remember this incident. SMH.

                          Young people being dumb and stirring up trouble in public places.. I know murder doesn't justify, but some people just put themselves in bad situations.

                          I honestly don't know what sort of punishment I want for the officer.

                          Comment

                          • ex carrabba fan
                            I'll thank him for you
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 32744

                            #14
                            Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                            Death threats against BART officer

                            (01-06) 22:06 PST San Francisco -- Johannes Mehserle, the BART police officer who fatally shot a man on the Fruitvale Station platform in Oakland early New Year's Day, is being kept under wraps and moved from place to place after receiving a number of death threats, BART spokesman Linton Johnson confirmed Tuesday night.

                            Mehserle, 27, a two-year veteran of the BART police force, shot and killed 22-year-old Oscar Grant of Hayward as Grant lay face-down on the station platform following a fight between two groups on a train.

                            While the nature of the threats hasn't been revealed, Johnson said at least one of the threats was made to Mehserle's family. As a result, he has been moved twice.

                            Mehserle is described as "devastated" over the shooting, but has yet to give a statement to investigators. Johnson said the delay was caused when Mehserle's attorney showed up at the station within two hours of the shooting and invoked the officer's right to "retain counsel and not say anything."

                            Probes by BART police and the Alameda County district attorney were further hampered because investigators were off over the holiday weekend.

                            On Friday, Mehserle's girlfriend had a baby - and then, to further complicate matters, BART passengers' videos of the Fruitvale Station incident began showing up on the airwaves. BART lawyers and brass have been in scramble mode ever since.

                            Johnson said Mehserle's attorney "has not made it easy to schedule him for an interview, but hopefully he'll be coming in very soon."

                            Odds are: If Mehserle is charged with a crime in Grant's shooting, it will be a first.

                            No one we talked with - from the district attorney's office to lawyers who work either side of police shootings - could remember a case in the last 20 years in which an on-duty officer had been charged in a fatal shooting in Alameda County.

                            "By and large, police officers have been reacting to some type of situation before they shoot someone that usually provides a legal justification," said District Attorney Tom Orloff, who has seen dozens of police shooting cases during his nearly four-decade career as a prosecutor.

                            Orloff, whose office would ultimately decide whether Mehserle should be charged with anything, hastened to point out that many details about the Fruitvale Station shooting remain unknown and that it is far too early to know whether the case will enter the criminal arena.

                            The most recent controversial police shooting in Alameda County happened July 25, when Oakland police Officer Hector Jimenez shot a drunken-driving suspect in the back as the man ran from an early morning traffic stop in the Fruitvale District.

                            Police said Jimenez shot 27-year-old Mack "Jody" Woodfox III because he thought Woodfox was reaching into his waistband for a gun, although no gun was found. Jimenez gave the same reason for taking part in the fatal shooting New Year's Eve 2007 of another man, Andrew Moppin, who, like Woodfox, turned out to be unarmed.

                            Police and a deputy from the district attorney's office interviewed Jimenez after the Woodfox shooting, then went out to the scene at night and re-enacted the incident as the officer related it.

                            The result - although technically the case is still pending, no charges have been filed.

                            John Burris, the Grant family's attorney, has sued Oakland police on behalf of the Woodfox family, filing a $25 million civil rights suit in federal court.

                            Burris filed a legal claim in the BART case Tuesday, a precursor to what he says will be another $25 million suit.

                            "Police don't get charged because D.A.'s and police work together, so they sort of get a pass," Burris said.

                            "That's why you have lawyers like myself. If you didn't, nothing would be done."

                            Comment

                            • stewaat

                              #15
                              Re: Man shot in the back by cops, while on the ground

                              Taser would've been acceptable IMHO, the guy on the ground was resisting.

                              However he pulled out his gun and should know the difference between his pistol and a taser. I'd be surprised if the guy honestly pulled out his gun knowingly and just shot a guy in the back with people ALL AROUND him.

                              I believe he made a vital mistake of judgment and will be punished the rest of his life for it as he rightfully should.

                              Comment

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